National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - A glimmer and signs of club rugby coming back
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

A glimmer and signs of club rugby coming back

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 25>
Author
Message
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 12:37
Apparently there is a campaign to let fans in to non league rugby - we need to lobby our MPS to get them to include rugby!
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
MikeGC View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Location: Burnage
Status: Offline
Points: 425
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 13:24
I have never been to any non-league football, so don't know how it compares.
But for example - if I think about level 5 football (is that the Conference ?) and level 5 rugby (where my club sits) I presume the main difference would be that a rugby clubhouse would (in normal times) be packed with folk (visitors; club members; former players and players) celebrating/commiserating. My perception is that football fans watch the game and leave at the final whistle.

It might be perceived as being easier to re-introduce fans to football
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 3276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 13:27
Originally posted by MikeGC MikeGC wrote:

I have never been to any non-league football, so don't know how it compares.
But for example - if I think about level 5 football (is that the Conference ?) and level 5 rugby (where my club sits) I presume the main difference would be that a rugby clubhouse would (in normal times) be packed with folk (visitors; club members; former players and players) celebrating/commiserating. My perception is that football fans watch the game and leave at the final whistle.

It might be perceived as being easier to re-introduce fans to football


I think you will find the average attendance of a lot of level 5 clubs is between 1000 and 2500 - not many level 5 rugby clubs would be in that range
RAID ON
Back to Top
billesleyexile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Location: North Oxon
Status: Offline
Points: 1114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 13:41
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by MikeGC MikeGC wrote:

I have never been to any non-league football, so don't know how it compares.
But for example - if I think about level 5 football (is that the Conference ?) and level 5 rugby (where my club sits) I presume the main difference would be that a rugby clubhouse would (in normal times) be packed with folk (visitors; club members; former players and players) celebrating/commiserating. My perception is that football fans watch the game and leave at the final whistle.

It might be perceived as being easier to re-introduce fans to football


I think you will find the average attendance of a lot of level 5 clubs is between 1000 and 2500 - not many level 5 rugby clubs would be in that range

True.

In the glory days of level 5 football (ie the 1990s) Kidderminster Harriers, Stevenage, Woking, Rushden, would all have thought 2,500 was ok if you just had the home fans and the away supporters hadn't travelled. 3,000 was more common, pushing 3,500 for the bigger matches. It's fallen right off but somewhere around 2,000 feels about right as an average.

A lot (most?) grounds at level 5 in football are set up for fully segregated fans and could cope with 6,000 in them (which they get for the bigger FA cup runs). Regardless of who stays where for how long, I reckon that football grounds at level 5 are probably better st up to deal with all of this than (most?) of our level 2 grounds, never mind our level 5.
keep the faith
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 454
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 15:25
I believe the football campaign is for leagues below the National League which is level 7 and lower starting with the Northern Premier, Southern and Isthmian Leagues.

Last season average attendances in the top divisions were between 287 and 1,671 (NPL), 123 and 892 (IL) and 103 and 982 (in the two joint top divisions of the SL).

I would think in terms of attendances this is fairly comparable with rugby's Championship and National Leagues.

Most of these clubs will have clubhouses with similar usage to rugby in my experience.
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 3276
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 15:32
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

I believe the football campaign is for leagues below the National League which is level 7 and lower starting with the Northern Premier, Southern and Isthmian Leagues.

Last season average attendances in the top divisions were between 287 and 1,671 (NPL), 123 and 892 (IL) and 103 and 982 (in the two joint top divisions of the SL).

I would think in terms of attendances this is fairly comparable with rugby's Championship and National Leagues.

Most of these clubs will have clubhouses with similar usage to rugby in my experience.


National League football is against starting without any crowds allowed
RAID ON
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 891
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 17:59
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Apparently there is a campaign to let fans in to non league rugby - we need to lobby our MPS to get them to include rugby!

Hear hear. TO be honest, it's probably easier to social distance at Community Rugby rather than community football given most rugby grounds are more open and not hemmed in by stands dictating where people go.
Back to Top
PiffPaff View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 728
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 18:32
Have I woke up in an alternate universe? Whats non-league rugby? and moreover why would you lobby your MP to include er...rugby?
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 18:38
Yes one of those words should be soccer.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
PiffPaff View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 728
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 18:43
Ah CQ, not like you to drop a pass :)

The longer things go on the more I'm convinced it will be 2021 before we get any rugby other than the Elite end of the game.
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 20:16
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53817206

We know RFU treats us as country bumkins and amateurs so presumably we are recreational.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 891
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 21:13
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53817206

We know RFU treats us as country bumkins and amateurs so presumably we are recreational.

I'd go with that. I'd probably go even further and the RFU probably say only the Premiership and Championship are "elite" as they are the "professional" leagues
Back to Top
Blutarsky View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Location: /
Status: Offline
Points: 981
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blutarsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2020 at 12:55
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

I believe the football campaign is for leagues below the National League which is level 7 and lower starting with the Northern Premier, Southern and Isthmian Leagues.

Last season average attendances in the top divisions were between 287 and 1,671 (NPL), 123 and 892 (IL) and 103 and 982 (in the two joint top divisions of the SL).

I would think in terms of attendances this is fairly comparable with rugby's Championship and National Leagues.

Most of these clubs will have clubhouses with similar usage to rugby in my experience.

In Barnstaple (Nat 2) the rugby ground adjoins Barnstaple Town FC's ground (Southern League).

We average a gate somewhere around 800 for a run of the mill home game (higher for some derby matches such as Redruth, or other Devon clubs when we are at level 5). 
In the Southern League, Town get an average gate around 100, and I recall it being below 40 a season or two back when they were in the midst of a relegation campaign. 
Back to Top
Bigmal View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 17 Nov 2013
Location: BRISTOL
Status: Offline
Points: 1407
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2020 at 17:38
Originally posted by MikeGC MikeGC wrote:

I have never been to any non-league football, so don't know how it compares.
But for example - if I think about level 5 football (is that the Conference ?) and level 5 rugby (where my club sits) I presume the main difference would be that a rugby clubhouse would (in normal times) be packed with folk (visitors; club members; former players and players) celebrating/commiserating. My perception is that football fans watch the game and leave at the final whistle.

It might be perceived as being easier to re-introduce fans to football

Be careful what you wish for Mike,!

Back to Top
kempstonblue View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2020
Location: Kempston
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 09:19
Read this article elsewhere. 


Football at what they call level 7 or below could at the end of the month be allowed 30% attendance of leagues minimum ground capacity.
Whilst Rugby hasn’t outside Premiership had the 10.000 +. Attendances that you can even find at level 3 games, or the money splashing around for vast underused stadiums (Milton Keynes), ground grading including capacity has been an issue. Sadly it seems once a club leaves level 5 and actually is called a football league club, home and away fans are automatically segregated as the ogres turn up to bait each other.

But, the good thing is clubs now know that if the league expects grounds to have a capacity of 2,000 by September 30% attendance will be possible.

According to Wikipedia National 1 clubs Cambridge and Rams capacity’s were 1250, so if that was 30% formula applied to Rugby, we could be talking 475 maximum attendance at League one.
600 at Championship based on Hartpury having a 2,000 capacity listed on Wikipedia.

Still a way off, playing wise I believe before it’s deemed safer for clubs to play, but hopefully as we get closer to that point the RFU can take a leaf off the FA regards a safe attendance level.

In many ways the 30% for a support base like Bedford (the above 600 limit) would be a blow. Interesting that the next lowest capacity at Ampthill, 3,000 would allow 900 which might be acceptable even for the clubs with a larger support. 

Last year average attendance at Championship 1606
National 1 558

So 30% capacity’s would be more suitable as a whole to League 1.
Championship would want I think 50%

With averages of national 2 North 348 and South 311 could see less issues for many clubs.
Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what
Back to Top
kempstonblue View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2020
Location: Kempston
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 09:22
Based the above on the FA guidelines.
The RFU probably not thinking this far, but just gives a glimpse of spectators life in a CoVid world.
Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7253
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 09:30
I  have no idea where the numbers on wikipedia come from.
Not sure how the Apmthill banking has a capacitoy of 300.
I am sure inreality Bedford can cope with much larger numbers than Ampthill - and no disrespect to the Ampthill ground whichis a lovely spott to watch rugby in provided the rain is no horizontal.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
billesleyexile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Location: North Oxon
Status: Offline
Points: 1114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 09:49
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I  have no idea where the numbers on wikipedia come from.
Not sure how the Apmthill banking has a capacitoy of 300.
I am sure inreality Bedford can cope with much larger numbers than Ampthill - and no disrespect to the Ampthill ground whichis a lovely spott to watch rugby in provided the rain is no horizontal.

I think there's a danger of confusing common sense with reality though, which might bite some teams and leave others unscathed. The grounds with limited infrastructure and lots of empty space may well be licensed for larger gatherings than the more developed ones (in normal times). Which, when you're left implementing a blanket percentage across the league might once again mean reward for those who are playing on a roped off pitch...


keep the faith
Back to Top
kempstonblue View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2020
Location: Kempston
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 09:54
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

I  have no idea where the numbers on wikipedia come from.
Not sure how the Apmthill banking has a capacitoy of 300.
I am sure inreality Bedford can cope with much larger numbers than Ampthill - and no disrespect to the Ampthill ground whichis a lovely spott to watch rugby in provided the rain is no horizontal.

The RFU either pluck a number from the air.
Advise individual clubs to limit capacity to a % per official capacity (believe some local authorities have a say on that one).
Or if they do have ground grading for leagues, including minimum capacity have a one size fits all figure.

In some respects, should some minimum criteria be expected? Thinking off subject to the proposed restructuring of National 2 with 3 leagues not two and possibly a dozen clubs being promoted, not suggesting white elephant 1,000 seater stand. But I assume if you have a 1,000 capacity you might need a couple of toilets, a coffee/tea place, although beer may not be a necessity the toilet may be after consumption Big smile
Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what
Back to Top
kempstonblue View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2020
Location: Kempston
Status: Offline
Points: 62
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2020 at 10:06
Just to clarify throwing these thoughts in the ring, because to be fair the destination we seek is our clubs playing again, and that players, spectators safety and welfare is not compromised.
Though the chaps at Twickenham see the Championship (if recent reports are to be believed) as the elite level of the recreational game, a lot of said clubs need guidance to what they will be expected to deliver. If, the conference idea, which in theory for some clubs reduces travel, might increase attendances in the future (thinking the longer term 16 club idea), then long term clarity for what is expected from clubs might need clarification.

Mind you it’s RFU, no doubt they will reprogramme the satnav.
Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 25>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.