National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Regional Premier Leagues
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Ampthill Appeal?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Topic ClosedAmpthill Appeal?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
FixSec View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 288
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ampthill Appeal?
    Posted: 02 Jun 2010 at 08:41
Ampthill had until yesterday to appeal (14 days from the judgement).  Anyone seen anything about whether they have appealed? 
 
Seems they would have to win both parts - the bit about fabricating evidence, and the bit about not putting out their strongest team.
 
If the fail / don't appeal, they will be Level Transfered to National 3 London.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2010 at 11:13
The Ampthill website has been updated and orignally said something like "comment will be made after committee meeting next week". This week it just says "RFU Disciplinary Hearing finds Ampthill guilty of bringing the game into disrepute and blocks promotion to National 2. "
 
Guess this means the those responsible for htis mess have at last got the message and won't appeal?
Back to Top
Maroon View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 23 May 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 211
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2010 at 17:34
RFU judgement on Ampthill should be posted on the RFU Discipline section very shortly.
 
" it { The judgement} was passed to Website Department yesterday afternoon {Thursday June 3} for uploading."
 
Should make interesting reading.


Edited by Maroon - 04 Jun 2010 at 17:35
Back to Top
Tyke View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Location: Sussex
Status: Offline
Points: 186
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 07:51
Back to Top
hammer View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Rugby Lion

Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Location: Daventry
Status: Offline
Points: 2500
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 08:38
Interesting and reassuring to see the depth of detail gone into.

Less impressive to see that in both judgements involving the club, Hinckley is mis-spelt at least once.

Not making any serious point but there is a reference (not evidence given by Ampthill as far as I read it) to Ampthill being an amateur club.

Away from Ampthill, what does that mean if a club did state they were amateur and is it binding? If a club said they were amateur in a hearing and paid expenses or wages, is that any offence?


Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 09:29
Originally posted by hammer hammer wrote:

If a club said they were amateur in a hearing and paid expenses or wages, is that any offence?


If I recall the registration forms correctly (can someone verify, it's a while since I saw one) from when I was a team manager it mentions whether a player is contracted or not and also I believe a declaration whether that player is being paid directly by the club or indirectly by an individual associated with the club, i.e. found a job in order to be tied to the club. Let's be honest how many clubs have we seen finding jobs for overseas players but still maintaining their Shamateur status. We know who you are, you are not fooling anyone.

As for an offence, I would have thought that was falsification of a legal document but that is another can of worms Wink
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 09:41
Let's hope that's the end of it and we can get on preparing for next season and get some fixture lists out that won't have to be amended.
Back to Top
redskins View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 14 Feb 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 376
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2010 at 23:52
I've just read the Ampthill judgement on RFU website. You couldn't make it up!!!!.....well you know what I mean!!!
Back to Top
hammer View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Rugby Lion

Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Location: Daventry
Status: Offline
Points: 2500
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 09:17
Originally posted by ivadenuff ivadenuff wrote:

Let's hope that's the end of it and we can get on preparing for next season and get some fixture lists out that won't have to be amended.


NCA fixtures still show Level Transfer rather than Hinckley so that element evidently still not settled.
Back to Top
Caesar View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 2009
Location: Stotfold
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2010 at 11:27
a fascinating tale of woe - clearly could not be made up (as said above) - but an indication of the impact of the Club's desire to play at a higher level and the pressure (perceived or real) that is present at committee and peripheral meetings in these circumstances. 

Been there, done that, still have the scars.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010 at 08:39
If you look at the RFU disciplinary hearing decision.
 
39. In relation to the breach of the Game Regulations, we order that the Ampthill v Luctonians game played on 1st May 2010 be declared a perverse result. This will result in all Ampthill’s results being expunged to produce an equitable table with Ampthill being placed at the bottom.
 
If I have understood this correctly and then applied it to the table correctly Luctonians will lose 5 points but none of the other top teams will lose any points. This will put Hinckley top and automatically promoted, Luton second and hence in a play-off spot and Luctonians third and hence not eligible for promotion in any way shape or form.
 
I wonder if the Competitions committee intended this?
 
 
Back to Top
The Bear View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 60
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010 at 09:41
So I guess its Stockport v Luton to see who goes up?  Can't imaging Lucs are too pleased with this outcome??
Back to Top
Patch View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 17 Aug 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 170
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010 at 09:53
This is getting ridiculous now -
 
The RFU have had a good few weeks to get decisions made and I can only imagine the delay could be because "it's only level 5". The RFU have to realise that most clubs at this level have pre seaon structures to put in place, preparations to be made and players to keep/recruit. This can be made difficult if you dont know what league you are in or where your opposition fixtures will be!!
 
Although I note that the "amateur" set up that is Ampthill have been busy on the recruitment side with a few new players joining on a good wedge - (This is a fact and not rumourmongering!)
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010 at 10:11
Hinckley will actually use one point but they will still stay above Luton
1. Hinckley
2. Luton
3. Luctonians
Back to Top
FixSec View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 288
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010 at 11:32
So, we have in the running for National 2
1. Ampthil denied promotion (now too late to lodge another appeal?)
2. Stockport who lost the "wrong" playoff game
3. Luctonians who won the "wrong" playoff game
4. Aggrieved Hinckley who lost out due to Ampthill putting out a second string against Luctonians
5. Luton who apparently really finished 2nd
Have I forgotten anyone?
 
Probably why we have no fixtures for National 3 London, National 3 Midlands and National 3 North, and why National 2 South still has a team called "Level Transfer".
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2010 at 07:47
Originally posted by FixSec FixSec wrote:

So, we have in the running for National 2
1. Ampthil denied promotion (now too late to lodge another appeal?)
2. Stockport who lost the "wrong" playoff game
3. Luctonians who won the "wrong" playoff game
4. Aggrieved Hinckley who lost out due to Ampthill putting out a second string against Luctonians
5. Luton who apparently really finished 2nd
Have I forgotten anyone?
 
Probably why we have no fixtures for National 3 London, National 3 Midlands and National 3 North, and why National 2 South still has a team called "Level Transfer".
It happened, we should move on. The guilty party who caused the mayhem in the first place have been punished and there is no way you can go back and start again, The start from fresh begins in September. It's a shame for Stockport, it's a shame for Morley and a very small maybe for shame for Luton but to untangle that mess now would be impossible.
See you all (some of you) next season.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2010 at 08:44
We are still no nearer finding the answer to this mess, who is going to be in N2N and N2S? Can someone please sort it out and we can get on with the rest of the fixtures and leagues. Untill it is resolved we are all in limbo.
Back to Top
Hexhamshire Lad View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 26 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1960
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2010 at 08:57
If Ampthill are placed at the bottom, does this mean they are relegated? Or is this simply a technical thing such as in Georgian England where Surrey were automatically placed at the top of the cricket county championship every year because their patron was the King, regardless of the results? In which case Hinckley simply take Ampthill's promotion place and we all move on.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2010 at 09:03
In relation to the breach of the Game Regulations, we order that the Ampthill v Luctonians game played on 1st May 2010 be declared a perverse result. This will result in all Ampthill’s results being expunged to produce an equitable table with Ampthill being placed at the bottom. We did consider whether we should have ordered Ampthill to be relegated to the League below. We concluded that it would not be in the interests of the Clubs in that League to have to play a Club which had been promoted from it the previous season and, but for this Judgment, would have played two Leagues above the next. It is for this reason that we have declared that Ampthill will play at Level 5 next season
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2010 at 13:39
Originally posted by Hexhamshire Lad Hexhamshire Lad wrote:

If Ampthill are placed at the bottom, does this mean they are relegated? Or is this simply a technical thing such as in Georgian England where Surrey were automatically placed at the top of the cricket county championship every year because their patron was the King, regardless of the results? In which case Hinckley simply take Ampthill's promotion place and we all move on.
If you read the judgment it implies that they are effectively bottom of N3M but it was considered unfair on clubs in the league(s) below to relegate them as that would just exclude most of them from a crack at promotion next season should they field a similar strength side.
Originally posted by Hexhamshire Lad Hexhamshire Lad wrote:

In which case Hinckley simply take Ampthill's promotion place and we all move on.
correct!
Judgment can be read here: http://www.rfu.com/TheGame/Discipline/Judgements/Judgements2009-2010/~/media/Files/2010/Discipline_Judgements/ampthill512judgmentjun101.ashx
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.