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Bees Collapse?

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Fudgepacker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Fudgepacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bees Collapse?
    Posted: 18 May 2019 at 00:35
I understand that having stopped paying a match fee a couple of weeks ago Birmingham & Solihull Bees have lost 29 players and have decided to voluntarily drop to the merit leagues. Following precedent (when Rugby Lions went under), this would mean that Chingford stay at level 5 as 'best loser' and Bedford Athletic stay in Midlands Premier, rather than transferring to London & SE. Can anyone confirm (or deny)?
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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 07:37
Sad and worrying for the game. Where will it all end?
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Robb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 07:55
Sounds very specific that they lost 29 players, who told you that? I can't see anything on B&S's page nor Chingford or Bedford's

Edited by Robb - 18 May 2019 at 08:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 10:29
I have little sympathy for them as a club (those with more than a few years memory in the tank might understand why) but that is a rather sad implosion if true.
I could say it had been coming for a long time, but that would be unnecessary.
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Dagfish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dagfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 13:02
Where did this rumour come from? Is there anything to back it up?

All we know is that the AGM is being held on 4th June, where members will be given an update on developments at the club since the end of the season, and that some dialogue is taking place with the RFU.

NB. I write this purely as a supporter - I have no inside knowledge of the club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote French Connection Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 13:29
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Sad and worrying for the game. Where will it all end?

It'll end with a lot more clubs suffering the same fate, unless things change and the amount of money that clubs at level 3 and below have to pay very average players is reduced significantly.  To their credit, the RFU know this and that's the reason for their salary cap at these levels.  I've been involved in it at the sharp end and believe me, it's just ridiculous.  If ALL the clubs at these levels had an ounce of interest in the future of the game itself, they'd get together and collectively ban ALL payments to players, full stop. They'd then have to invest in their infrastructure and coaching in order to attract players, and of course put a lot of time, effort and money into developing their own youngsters. But as long as rich men are prepared to use clubs as a plaything and chuck large amounts of money into them, then there will be a lot that will always choose that far easier and quicker route to promotion.......and hence the situation we have now.
Not great at all and a direct route to the decline of the club game.  Unfortunately we've learned nothing at all from the experience of lower league soccer, which went down that path many years ago. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 16:39
Fudgepacker should know - they've signed about 23 of them at Bournville - only joking but they've signed a few which is understandable seeing they're only a few miles up the road
Just a thought from a commercial point of view. Change their name to Bournville Bees and re-christen their new grounds Apiary Fields (from Avery)
All meant in good humour - no offence intended!!
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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 20:12
Spot on FC - it needs to be addressed more vigorously.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2019 at 21:06
I'd say given we haven't had any response providing any sources for this rumour, I think we can put it down as just a story without truth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendly prop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2019 at 20:29
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

I'd say given we haven't had any response providing any sources for this rumour, I think we can put it down as just a story without truth.

And why would you want the truth to get in the way of a good story? LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 10:14
From what I hear It's a definite possibility, what has not reached this debate is that South Leicester are in exactly the same position. 
If Bees and South Leicester do not turn up for business in Mids Prem next season it will not be for the good of the game, the run away players have to accept some responsibility 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Remember Izal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 11:08
Surely the players worked with the model put forward by the club concerned. Paid mercenaries by definition are not loyal and they will fight for both sides if the money is right. The sooner the RFU embrace the French model on payments the better. As I understand it Budgets agreed pre season and instant relegation if you don't stick to them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 11:51
At level 4 all players get paid, unfortunately this includes ones that are not worth it, who are paid for loyalty when pawpaw happens!
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373 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 14:05
Clubs have to start being realistic then. As much as people (rightfully) whinge about the RFU being unable to budget correctly, it seems that clubs don't think that applies to them.

If you play players to get you through the leagues, then you're always going to need a bigger chequebook the year after - and if it does go South, whar players are actually sticking around?

Clubs need to be far more self sustaining - rather than splash the cash on a never was - why not put that money in to developing decent youth players that can take you up the leagues? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 14:11
Quite - see my post under RFU Funding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wesleysnipes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 14:24
all valid arguments and FC hit the nail on the head....

developing from within appears to be the logical situation.... until a club who are paying comes and poaches them. 

Unless the players are being well looked after and remunerated in some capacity then they will always hear a club out who are paying the bucks.

essentially the hours put into training, travelling and playing is another job
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finkleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 16:40
Wesley, your dead right. 
 Clubs can invest heavily in their facilities, MJ , Colts, Youth sections only for them to be poached by a club down the road who pays.  Likewise, if a club manages to hold onto their decent players, there`s a limit to the level at which they are able to compete.
There once was a thing called LOYALTY!
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FEZ ANT PLUCKER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 17:18
Originally posted by Roary Roary wrote:

At level 4 all players get paid, unfortunately this includes ones that are not worth it, who are paid for loyalty when pawpaw happens!

I think you will find that Westcliff (just promoted to L4) are the exception and Dorking the same when we were there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 17:19
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Clubs have to start being realistic then. As much as people (rightfully) whinge about the RFU being unable to budget correctly, it seems that clubs don't think that applies to them.

If you play players to get you through the leagues, then you're always going to need a bigger chequebook the year after - and if it does go South, whar players are actually sticking around?

Clubs need to be far more self sustaining - rather than splash the cash on a never was - why not put that money in to developing decent youth players that can take you up the leagues? 

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Clive Norling View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 10:15
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Clubs have to start being realistic then. As much as people (rightfully) whinge about the RFU being unable to budget correctly, it seems that clubs don't think that applies to them.

If you play players to get you through the leagues, then you're always going to need a bigger chequebook the year after - and if it does go South, whar players are actually sticking around?

Clubs need to be far more self sustaining - rather than splash the cash on a never was - why not put that money in to developing decent youth players that can take you up the leagues? 


The big difference is that the RFU have PAID staff to manage budgets, the clubs are staffed by VOLUNTEERS, that doesn't mean that budgets should be ignored, BUT to compare the actions of the governing body with it's member clubs is unfair ...

In fact the rank hypocrisy of the RFU in lecturing it's member clubs about fiscal policy is frankly embarrassing and laughable at this current moment in time .....with all their resources and full time staff and Council members, they appear unable to organise an acloholic getting Huckleberryly Pear in a brewery ....

However, the point about paying players is valid but the reality is that ambitious clubs will pay players and if the money runs out, that surely is the concern of the club?

Once the IRB made the decision to make the game "open", this was always going to be one of the knock on effects ..

We spend a huge amount of time developing our younger players but as we go up the leagues, the gap gets bigger to bridge for the younger players ...

To quote my Dad, who started playing rugby in about 1951, "once you introduce money into an amateur sport, the whole ethos changes" and whether we like to admit it or not, it HAS CHANGED IRREVOCABLY ....
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