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Bees Collapse?

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Clive Norling View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 13:49
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by FEZ ANT PLUCKER FEZ ANT PLUCKER wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

 If the club DOES NOT take it's responsibilities seriously, the members have it within their rights to change the executive BUT I WOULD SUGGEST THAT 99.9% OF THE CLUBS below LEVEL 2 are run very well, with very good intentioned volunteers ....

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

The vast majority of clubs are run so badly it's scary.

Running a rugby club is running a business whether as a sole trading organisation, or as a Ltd Company, and consequently has responsibilities firstly to HMRC, its creditors and to its members. Fiscal policies, financial scrutiny, checks and balances have to be in place and MANAGED infinitely. Income whether from one single benefactor, or a multitude of small sponsors, together with income derived from membership fees and various fundraising events, must be balanced against total expenditure in order to avoid trading deficits. In simple terms the books must balance with hopefully a trading profit the result. Total expenditure including the payment of players must never exceed total income. Now I am not an accountant but this is purely common sense. My own club is run by its members professionally and ethically and to a high standard IMO, so I am certain we will never be part of the 'Vast Majority' described above. You are what you are and you reap your own rewards or failings.

You say common sense, but the reality is that it's far from it. Look how many clubs are empty from Monday to Friday because they aren't using assets to their full extent. As you say, in an ideal world clubs would be run with such level headedness and transparency. The reality of the situation is much different.


373 ... I think you're confusing "Community clubs" with "Professional clubs", the professional clubs have departments paid to get other organisations, busniess etc to utilise their fantastic stadia, normally based within 2 miles of a large conurbation, with access to thousands of people .......
your local community club and I'll use as an example the 3 based in Reading, none are within 4 miles of the town centre, of the 3 ours is the newest, none of them have easy public transport access, and all of them would be very limited in what they could offer and they would all need to EMPLOY ADDITIONAL staff, even if they could attract business ....

As for evening use, most clubs do open but the atmosphere is sadly lacking and since alcohol is so cheap now, if that's what your alluding to in your post, look how many pubs are going bust daily ....

I don't know a club within 10 miles of Reading who are not actively seeking additional revenue through their clubhouse / bar ...
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373 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 14:34
Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

 373 ... I think you're confusing "Community clubs" with "Professional clubs", the professional clubs have departments paid to get other organisations, busniess etc to utilise their fantastic stadia, normally based within 2 miles of a large conurbation, with access to thousands of people .......
your local community club and I'll use as an example the 3 based in Reading, none are within 4 miles of the town centre, of the 3 ours is the newest, none of them have easy public transport access, and all of them would be very limited in what they could offer and they would all need to EMPLOY ADDITIONAL staff, even if they could attract business ....

As for evening use, most clubs do open but the atmosphere is sadly lacking and since alcohol is so cheap now, if that's what your alluding to in your post, look how many pubs are going bust daily ....

I don't know a club within 10 miles of Reading who are not actively seeking additional revenue through their clubhouse / bar ...
I'm not confusing the two at all, thank you kindly. 

I could write a novel on the bizarre decisions I've run into made by terribly run committees, however it seems that you are determined to make some point that community clubs that overstretch and don't run themselves as a business are victims somehow.

Okay mate.

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Clive Norling View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 14:47
373 ....

I've not at any point got even close to suggesting that .....

Please explain then what you mean by this statement

"Look how many clubs are empty from Monday to Friday because they aren't using assets to their full extent"
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373 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 15:10
Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

373 ....

I've not at any point got even close to suggesting that .....

Please explain then what you mean by this statement

"Look how many clubs are empty from Monday to Friday because they aren't using assets to their full extent"
I mean it's quite self explanatory isn't it? How many clubs are open during the day as event spaces? Very few. And not for just for selling beer. Perhaps some of these much vaunted volunteers could turn up, unlock doors and brew tea, or spaces could be hired at a cost which would also allow for the hiring of casual event staff.

A mind blowing idea I know.

Perhaps if clubs did the basic things right, like keeping a website up to date and with easy to find information about renting the club, they might find it a bit easier to pull in revenue. I know one club went from using the terrible Pitchero sites to running their own site and room bookings (and the clubs bank balance) shot up massively. Just from making it a bit clearer that, indeed, yes you could hire their club. Could you hire the space at Birmingham & Solihull for example? Apparently not..


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Bin Licker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bin Licker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 15:16
No doubt this debate can carry on ad nauseum!
We know where Bees are at. Do we have any news on the comment relating to SL? Always a good turnover of players in Leicester area. Not heard anything myself over here but I need to get my relegation predictions done and Bees and SL sound like hot favourites??
 
Two examples that the pavements of Nat 2 are not lined with gold? 
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One For The Ditch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 17:03
So, a Club(s) local to BS are prepared to spend money on a mass of mercenaries from a side who were relegated from and bumped along the bottom of, their league throughout last season. If this is the case then how can they expect loyalty from established home grown players who may become sidelined???
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tulip View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 18:25
Originally posted by One For The Ditch One For The Ditch wrote:

So, a Club(s) local to BS are prepared to spend money on a mass of mercenaries from a side who were relegated from and bumped along the bottom of, their league throughout last season. If this is the case then how can they expect loyalty from established home grown players who may become sidelined???

Well that's wher it goes" ti ts up "and young players who have come through Mini and Juniors say why did I bother.
If I can't play rugby for my local club I shan't bother
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Kimbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 23:30
Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:

Lastly Kimbo, you are still not smarting over the Bees' great Championship play-off escape are you? I suspect that, truth be told, as a Coventarian you would be hostile to the Bees whatever the circumstances.

Twill ne'er be forgot. Especially by Coventarians (sic).

I'm a Rugbeian btw.
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Jez View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 11:09
While on the subject of Bournville ‘locals’ who do not already know may be interested to learn Uncle Phil is now there https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/bournvillerfc/news/please-welcome-our-new-managing-director-phil-mayn-2376689.html
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Blub View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Blub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 12:35
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

 373 ... I think you're confusing "Community clubs" with "Professional clubs", the professional clubs have departments paid to get other organisations, busniess etc to utilise their fantastic stadia, normally based within 2 miles of a large conurbation, with access to thousands of people .......
your local community club and I'll use as an example the 3 based in Reading, none are within 4 miles of the town centre, of the 3 ours is the newest, none of them have easy public transport access, and all of them would be very limited in what they could offer and they would all need to EMPLOY ADDITIONAL staff, even if they could attract business ....

As for evening use, most clubs do open but the atmosphere is sadly lacking and since alcohol is so cheap now, if that's what your alluding to in your post, look how many pubs are going bust daily ....

I don't know a club within 10 miles of Reading who are not actively seeking additional revenue through their clubhouse / bar ...
I'm not confusing the two at all, thank you kindly. 

I could write a novel on the bizarre decisions I've run into made by terribly run committees, however it seems that you are determined to make some point that community clubs that overstretch and don't run themselves as a business are victims somehow.

Okay mate.



It all sounds very easy, 373.

I would suggest that a great many clubs (indeed most clubs that I know well) are run by individuals and committees, many of which would stop doing it tomorrow if they could find someone else to do it.

Many people in the roles of responsibility at a great many clubs do their jobs because there is no-one else to do it.  They may not be the best, the experts, but they are available and willing, and without them the clubs would be in a far more parlous state.
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Bin Licker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bin Licker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 13:09
[QUOTE=Jez]While on the subject of Bournville ‘locals’ who do not already know may be interested to learn Uncle Phil is now there https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/bournvillerfc/news/please-welcome-our-new-managing-director-phil-mayn-2376689.html[/QUOTE]
 
Another who will not be there for the love of Bourneville. One For The Ditch sums up my thoughts on the signings.
We all aspire to improve but throwing money at mediocre mercenaries does nothing to improve the club.
PS what is the attraction of Nat 2?  
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Finkleman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finkleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 13:20
Ego!
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JohnT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 14:29
Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:

While on the subject of Bournville ‘locals’ who do not already know may be interested to learn Uncle Phil is now there https://www.pitchero.com/clubs/bournvillerfc/news/please-welcome-our-new-managing-director-phil-mayn-2376689.html
 

Ouch!!!! they will need deep pockets
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Clive Norling View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clive Norling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 15:13
Originally posted by Blub Blub wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

 373 ... I think you're confusing "Community clubs" with "Professional clubs", the professional clubs have departments paid to get other organisations, busniess etc to utilise their fantastic stadia, normally based within 2 miles of a large conurbation, with access to thousands of people .......
your local community club and I'll use as an example the 3 based in Reading, none are within 4 miles of the town centre, of the 3 ours is the newest, none of them have easy public transport access, and all of them would be very limited in what they could offer and they would all need to EMPLOY ADDITIONAL staff, even if they could attract business ....

As for evening use, most clubs do open but the atmosphere is sadly lacking and since alcohol is so cheap now, if that's what your alluding to in your post, look how many pubs are going bust daily ....

I don't know a club within 10 miles of Reading who are not actively seeking additional revenue through their clubhouse / bar ...

I'm not confusing the two at all, thank you kindly. 

I could write a novel on the bizarre decisions I've run into made by terribly run committees, however it seems that you are determined to make some point that community clubs that overstretch and don't run themselves as a business are victims somehow.

Okay mate.



It all sounds very easy, 373.

I would suggest that a great many clubs (indeed most clubs that I know well) are run by individuals and committees, many of which would stop doing it tomorrow if they could find someone else to do it.

Many people in the roles of responsibility at a great many clubs do their jobs because there is no-one else to do it.  They may not be the best, the experts, but they are available and willing, and without them the clubs would be in a far more parlous state.


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Bigmal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 16:24
Problem is that the volunteers are getting older and the next generations have arguably been spoilt by being both mollycoddled and in many cases paid.

There was a time when you played and then put something back via coaching,refereeing or taking on a club role.This doesn't appear to be the case now based on my limited personal experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaidsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 16:33
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Problem is that the volunteers are getting older and the next generations have arguably been spoilt by being both mollycoddled and in many cases paid.

There was a time when you played and then put something back via coaching,refereeing or taking on a club role.This doesn't appear to be the case now based on my limited personal experience.


Totally agree Bigmal, and I think this has also led to the decline in 3rd/4th XV social rugby. Players with egos and attitudes just quit playing the game, when they are no longer fit/young enough to play 1st XV.
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sidelined View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sidelined Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 17:58
Oddly enough, I seem to see ex players on a Sunday morning at the club coaching their own kids teams, 
so they are giving back but maybe not through the senior section of the club.


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Jester10 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jester10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 18:57
Originally posted by sidelined sidelined wrote:

Oddly enough, I seem to see ex players on a Sunday morning at the club coaching their own kids teams, 
so they are giving back but maybe not through the senior section of the club.



Yep, that's what I see too at my club. Usually start on the sidelines, then within about three or four weeks they'll have gravitated to trying to tag the little darlings, then it's the slippery slope to becoming a Mini Coach Smile
Enjoying life!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 22:28
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Problem is that the volunteers are getting older and the next generations have arguably been spoilt by being both mollycoddled and in many cases paid.

There was a time when you played and then put something back via coaching,refereeing or taking on a club role.This doesn't appear to be the case now based on my limited personal experience.


This is a problem that is not unique to Rugby, many a cricket club is in the same position.
RAID ON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2019 at 23:08
And not just sport other hobbies are suffering in the same way.

Blood and Sand
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