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Bees Collapse?

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cobbler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2019 at 16:38
Originally posted by MaidsBoy MaidsBoy wrote:

Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

Problem is that the volunteers are getting older and the next generations have arguably been spoilt by being both mollycoddled and in many cases paid.

There was a time when you played and then put something back via coaching,refereeing or taking on a club role.This doesn't appear to be the case now based on my limited personal experience.


Totally agree Bigmal, and I think this has also led to the decline in 3rd/4th XV social rugby. Players with egos and attitudes just quit playing the game, when they are no longer fit/young enough to play 1st XV.
 
Yep! I raised on this forum a few years ago the question of where the next generation of Alickadoos would come from (in level 3, 4, 5 clubs at least) with the large number of players with little real loyalty to the club. Add to that the layers of bureaucracy being imposed by the government / RFU and it is little wonder it is hard to find new rugby club leaders.

BTW an earlier post listed Lichfield as a Notts, Lincs, Derbys team. They are actually in Staffs, but Paviors should have been mentioned, being a new level 5 club based between Nottingham and Mansfield.
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donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote donnyladinsheffield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 09:01
Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

Originally posted by Blub Blub wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by Clive Norling Clive Norling wrote:

 373 ... I think you're confusing "Community clubs" with "Professional clubs", the professional clubs have departments paid to get other organisations, busniess etc to utilise their fantastic stadia, normally based within 2 miles of a large conurbation, with access to thousands of people .......
your local community club and I'll use as an example the 3 based in Reading, none are within 4 miles of the town centre, of the 3 ours is the newest, none of them have easy public transport access, and all of them would be very limited in what they could offer and they would all need to EMPLOY ADDITIONAL staff, even if they could attract business ....

As for evening use, most clubs do open but the atmosphere is sadly lacking and since alcohol is so cheap now, if that's what your alluding to in your post, look how many pubs are going bust daily ....

I don't know a club within 10 miles of Reading who are not actively seeking additional revenue through their clubhouse / bar ...

I'm not confusing the two at all, thank you kindly. 

I could write a novel on the bizarre decisions I've run into made by terribly run committees, however it seems that you are determined to make some point that community clubs that overstretch and don't run themselves as a business are victims somehow.

Okay mate.



It all sounds very easy, 373.

I would suggest that a great many clubs (indeed most clubs that I know well) are run by individuals and committees, many of which would stop doing it tomorrow if they could find someone else to do it.

Many people in the roles of responsibility at a great many clubs do their jobs because there is no-one else to do it.  They may not be the best, the experts, but they are available and willing, and without them the clubs would be in a far more parlous state.




I feel aJohn Pullin quote may be appropriateBig smile

373 - In my job I am constatntly reminding people that just because you want to sell does not mean people want to buy.   The same goes with clubhouses.  Just because you open does not mean people want to hire/come and spend. As one person pointed out location and transport links are key.  Also a small clubhouse with memorabillia all over the walls (as it should be) is not going to attract many business conferences, especially with the IT expectations nowadays. 

I think there may be a role for those located in communities to become some sort of social gathering placeommunity hub, especially as people have pointed out with the decline of pubs and the lack of local government funding to undertake many activities.  Whether that is a money generator is another matter altogther and is more likley to be some sort of social value offering back to the community.
Lord have mercy on me; keep me away from Leeds: I've been before; it's not what I'm looking for
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2019 at 12:58
Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:


I feel aJohn Pullin quote may be appropriateBig smile

373 - In my job I am constatntly reminding people that just because you want to sell does not mean people want to buy.   The same goes with clubhouses.  Just because you open does not mean people want to hire/come and spend. As one person pointed out location and transport links are key.  Also a small clubhouse with memorabillia all over the walls (as it should be) is not going to attract many business conferences, especially with the IT expectations nowadays. 

I think there may be a role for those located in communities to become some sort of social gathering placeommunity hub, especially as people have pointed out with the decline of pubs and the lack of local government funding to undertake many activities.  Whether that is a money generator is another matter altogther and is more likley to be some sort of social value offering back to the community.

No. There’s so much wrong there it’s not even worth touching.

If clubs want to be billy big ones, they’ve got to have the revenue streams to back it up. As it was pointed out few have the ability to develop these. Stupid clubs. Not unlucky. Stupid

Edited by 373 - 25 May 2019 at 13:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2019 at 14:34
Some people are so blinkered and prejudiced that they simply aren't worth arguing with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 06:29
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Some people are so blinkered and prejudiced that they simply aren't worth arguing with.
Quite so. Those that think a club can rely on sugar daddies everlasting money pile are just fooling themselves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 11:03
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Some people are so blinkered and prejudiced that they simply aren't worth arguing with.
Quite so. Those that think a club can rely on sugar daddies everlasting money pile are just fooling themselves.
Full Circle? Its a bit like 'B'  Every club has its paying support, week in and week out, so decisions should be put to the members.Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2019 at 23:41
 
You're absolutely correct One for the Ditch however, wouldn't have missed it for the world, many friends made, massive lessons learned on and off the pitch.
Being part of a club through it's journey from level 10 to level 4 in 15 years has been very special. 
No sugar daddies in sight just passionate, rugby loving business men who have ambition and influence. 
Downside …….. PLAYERS!!Angry 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendly prop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2019 at 19:29
Originally posted by Roary Roary wrote:

 
You're absolutely correct One for the Ditch however, wouldn't have missed it for the world, many friends made, massive lessons learned on and off the pitch.
Being part of a club through it's journey from level 10 to level 4 in 15 years has been very special. 
No sugar daddies in sight just passionate, rugby loving business men who have ambition and influence. 
Downside …….. PLAYERS!!Angry 
Did you forget about us at Scunny then Roary? LOL


Edited by Friendly prop - 28 May 2019 at 19:29
"Animo concipere non possum quo palto hoc pervease exeat."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2019 at 16:41
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Some people are so blinkered and prejudiced that they simply aren't worth arguing with.
Quite so. Those that think a club can rely on sugar daddies everlasting money pile are just fooling themselves.

Go tell Saracens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2019 at 18:32
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Some people are so blinkered and prejudiced that they simply aren't worth arguing with.
Quite so. Those that think a club can rely on sugar daddies everlasting money pile are just fooling themselves.


Go tell Saracens.


They also manage to fool those that investigate alleged salary cap abuses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2019 at 20:03
Gone off subject a bit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2019 at 21:13
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Some people are so blinkered and prejudiced that they simply aren't worth arguing with.
Quite so. Those that think a club can rely on sugar daddies everlasting money pile are just fooling themselves.


Go tell Saracens.


They also manage to fool those that investigate alleged salary cap abuses.

And are they exception to the rule, or the standard?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2019 at 17:22
Pete Glackin to Mose as Head Coach to work under Adam Balding as DoR

Edited by billesleyexile - 31 May 2019 at 17:23
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 11:48
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

 Those that think a club can rely on sugar daddies everlasting money pile are just fooling themselves.

It is important to bear in mind that, whatever the validity of comments made in this thread, ‘the Bees’ do not fit the ‘model’ under critical discussion.

·         ‘The Bees’ were not ‘handed’ by the members to a wealthy individual.

·         B&S RFC Ltd, which I understand was an industrial & provident society and thus ‘members’ club’ of the time, became insolvent in 2008.

·         A philanthropic supporter, Chris Loughran, set up new legal entity, B&S RC Ltd, a private company limited by shares to take over the playing activities of B&S RFC Ltd with the agreement of the RFU.

·        CL was majority shareholder (there was a small minority shareholding I believe by one individual) & thus de facto sole owner. In other words (1) ‘the Bees’ ceased to be a ‘members’ club’ (but remained heavily reliant on volunteers) and (2) absent his action it is most unlikely there would be any ‘Bees’ to discuss now.

·        CL has heavily financed ‘the Bees’, as owner, for 10+ years.

·        CL gave due notice to the supporters etc (i.e. not members, there being none) that he would not be financing his company, ‘the Bees’, after the end of the 2018/19 season. In response, and at his instigation, a new company limited by guarantee (using the name of the –now deregistered- company that went bust in 2008, B&S RFC Ltd), a ‘members’ club’, was founded to take over the playing activities of ‘the Bees’ from the 2019/20 season.

·         It is the new ‘members’ club’ that is experiencing the challenges that have given rise to this discussion thread.



Edited by Jez - 01 Jun 2019 at 11:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 14:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 15:14

This should sort the Bromsgrove issue out then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fudgepacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 16:07
Originally posted by One For The Ditch One For The Ditch wrote:

Originally posted by Jez Jez wrote:

The position is now confirmed:


This should sort the Bromsgrove issue out then

I'm not sure it does (unless the RFU want to use the opportunity to solve a tricky little problem in the Midlands). Following the Rugby Lions precedent, Chingford would be reprieved from relegation in London & SE Premier as the 'best loser' of the 12 teams relegated from level 5 last season; and Bedford would then be spared the level transfer replacing Bees in the Midlands. I'm sure we will find out shortly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 19:27
Who is currently in the Greater Birmingham Merit League.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 20:00
Good question - didn't even know it existed!
Might be a solution for our 2nds rather than travelling 100's of miles to play in Midlands Reserve Leagues?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fudgepacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 20:05
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Who is currently in the Greater Birmingham Merit League.

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