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Topic ClosedBirmingham & Solihull - Wednesday

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Cambridge

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:13
So Bees seem OK and Caldy are stuttering on, all we need now is England to perform!  LOL
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:15

P5 Ye5, it 5eem5 50. 541t

"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:16
Stallion correct assumptions on the ground, SXR for this game as we are not set up anywhere else, but future games may be played elsewhere, lets wait for the NewCo ruling. 
 
By the way anyone got an idea what is called, getting a bit bored with NewCo as a name ?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:30
Still think Bees 2- The Revenge! holds up!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:39
Does anybody know what ambition Bees2 holds for the immediate future and the 10/11 season?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:41
I think initial survival and to play at a ground which actually attracts a crowd - that are able to park! I do not think at this stage that our ambitions can be laid out until we know what has actually happened at the various meetings that have taken place, what deals have been done, who is funding us etc.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 17:43
also, can someone state some facts about B&SRFC Ltd - did it go into administration yesterday?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 18:02
This and many other things not clear yet - we have been promised a statement on the Bees website soon - although the hardworking webmaster no longer has a job (under the old regime) but has promised to keep us up to date at least until the end of the week.  http://www.beesrugby.com/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 18:27
RFU Statement on Birmingham and Solihull RFC
Wednesday October 28, 2009
Issued by Peter Thomas
The RFU Management Board met today and discussed the situation at Birmingham and Solihull Rugby Football Club. The Board noted that the club had put itself into voluntary liquidation yesterday (27th October) and could not therefore participate any further in the Championship in its original form.

The Board reviewed a detailed proposal for a new company with new additional investment sourced from local investors which could be set up to take on the playing responsibilities of the old club. This includes a plan for continuing to support the amateur elements of the club.

To preserve the integrity of the Championship, and the other clubs playing in it, the Management Board has agreed to grant a temporary licence to the new company to compete in the Championship until the end of November and to enable them to put into effect their restructure and complete the fixtures through to that date.

However in recognition of the fact that the original club went into liquidation, the Management Board has applied a penalty of 15 points to the team which is effective immediately.

By 23rd November the RFU Management Board will be looking for documentary evidence that the establishment of the new company and all other financial and legal issues have been dealt with in accordance with the proposal and to the Management Board's satisfaction. The RFU will issue a further statement at this time
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 19:03
what an effing nonsense.  spend recklessly, go bust, welcome back

this is great news for several of the championship clubs teetering on a knife edge.  In one decision the RFU has sanctioned spending way beyond your means safe in the knowledge that your worst possible scenario is a slap on the wrists and a completely meaningless 15 point deduction.

A spineless decision.  there was enough money in the pot to compensate clubs for the lost fixtures.  I don't know why I'm so angry about this because it was eminently predictable.  progress is painful, and the management board have taken the pain free approach.  It is particularly comical to note the last sentence of para 2 "this includes a plan for continuing to support the amateur elements of the club."  Surely it is the amateur elements that have subsidised/supported the professional side of the club!

Bees fans, do not take my comments personally.  I am generally a big supporter of the RFU but this is crass, lazy and lame.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 19:29

Champion - Totally concur with your comments. The precedent was already set by the RFU management board in the summer with their handling of the LW administration. The outcome here is therefore hardly surprising.

 

The key phrase in the statement is: To preserve the integrity of the Championship, and the other clubs playing in it.

 

In any other league a 15 point deduction would mean in effect automatic relegation. Oh no not in the Championship.

 

Likewise nothing against Bees, but just another example of poor leadership & management.

 

Over the last 18 months we have had Nottingham, LW and now Bees, therefore any other club on the edge can take heart from this decision.

 

Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

Seven down one to go
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 19:34
Champion:  Spot on as always.
 
Exiled Scot:  You have highlighted the relevant phrases of the announcement.  "To preserve the integrity of the Championship"  This translates as "to get us out of the rubbish"
 
A disgaceful decision.
 
Edit:  I didn't type "rubbish" but sh1t


Edited by Moseley Mauler - 28 Oct 2009 at 19:35
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 19:54

I must first point out that I am very pleased to see that Bees have survived for now.

 

I know a few of the boys there and you have to admire them for sticking at it when all around them was collapsing. The time effort and enthusiasm shown by Rusty to keep this going is also hugely admirable.

 

However, what must the other championship teams at the bottom end of the table be thinking now!? The RFU have understandably tried to support a club in trouble, but at the same time have got it so wrong, and by consequence put a number of other sides in danger of relegation, and of financial difficulties of their own.

 

A 15pt deduction means nothing when relegation will be decided via playoff. The synic in me always found relegation by playoff to be very dubious. In theory a club can now lose all their games, spend no money, offer nothing to the league, and then go out at the end of the season sign some prem young guns/dual reg etc and get out of it.

 

Bees may go through the rest of the season without a win, (they will always be competitive as Russel Earnshaw sides always are) but nether the less finish the season on minus points and then win the playoff and survive. You would have to say fair play in one respect but potentially a side severely cast adrift could end up surviving at the expense of a Doncaster or Rotherham who as I understand are trying to keep within budget and do things right. That just seems wrong!!

 

At this point I must reiterate that I am happy to see Bees have survived and I know a few of the boys well, my issue is with the RFU. But I also feel for the other clubs around them who could end up playing against a spirited and revitalised Rusty team, and I wouldn't want to take my side up against an Earnshaw side with their backs against the wall!!!

 

What must fans of Scottish, Richmond etc be thinking?!?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 19:55
tricky one. agree with a points deduction, meaningless to bees though, they should either get a points deduction from the play off of say 10 points or automatic relegation at the end of the season. i think the fact that the insolvency happens during the season should count against them. can i say however i am delighted that they have a chance of staying alive..... well done to all involved.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 20:09
Originally posted by Dalesman Dalesman wrote:

'to grant a temporary licence'


that's an interesting phrase in law.  Confused

Can I buy one please? LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 20:53
Does this temporary stay enable players and employees to be paid or are the poor devils still in limbo?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 21:11
I assume that you have all seen the following -
news BEES LIVE ON TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY...AND MOSELEY
Wednesday 28th October 2009

Following today's meeting of the RFU's Senior Management board Bees Head Coach Russell Earnshaw has confirmed his side will take to the SXR field on Saturday to fulfill their fixture and more against local rivals, Moseley.

Choosing to back the Bees' new consortium the RFU have provided the Solihull side with a continuation license until the end of the month whereupon the situation, status and fulfillment of the newco's proposals will be reviewed. "The RFU liked the proposals we put in front of them and have given us three weeks to put our plans into action" commented Earnshaw "...they now want to work with us to put Bees on a stable and sustainable footing."

"A big thank you also goes out from me to all those involved in getting us this far - our fans, sponsors and those who have endured the sad events of recent weeks alongside us. A particular thanks must go to the players and the staff of the club who’ve continued to work tirelessly without being paid and with such an uncertain future, but now the hard work really begins...

"We have three weeks to work alongside the RFU and to put our new plans into action. We hope to begin with a meeting of club supporters sometime next week so that we can communicate the current status and describe our plans for the future. In the meantime, anyone interested in being involved in this adventure, at whatever level of time or effort, please feel free to contact me.

Finally, we will be putting on a BBQ after the game on Saturday as a huge thank you to all involved so far - we hope to see you all there."

I agree that reckless spending should not be rewarded. Hopefully whoever takes over the board of "Bees 2" will learn from this disastrous part of or history and the same mistakes will not repeated.....time will tell.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 22:22
As a Rugby fan I am absolutely delighted for the Bees fans.
 
At Roth we know all about Russell. A great player for us and of course for our Donny friends.
 
In so far as the points deduction is concerned. Don't get me wrong , I do not defend clubs living beyond their means but Rugby below the Prem is pretty fragile to say the least. Those who take the morale high ground should think "There but for the grace of God go I".No one at this level is immune.
 
All at Roth know only too well how we nearly went out of business when our benefactor pulled out.
 
I am afraid the responsibility for this debacle is fairly and squarely that of the RFU, not of course for an individual clubs financial mess, but for the sanctions they imposed.
 
As has been said earlier, to impose a points deduction, far from being a deterrent, is actually good for Birmingham as it effectively condemns them to a bottom 4 finish and time to prepare for the play offs.
Effectively, the punishment is a bit like bathing a fish......pointless
 
Nontheless well done Bees, may you make a full recovery, although, hopefully not at our expense.
There should be less destitution more constitution and more pros...perity.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 23:09
Originally posted by Rothman Rothman wrote:

In so far as the points deduction is concerned. Don't get me wrong , I do not defend clubs living beyond their means but Rugby below the Prem is pretty fragile to say the least. Those who take the morale high ground should think "There but for the grace of God go I".No one at this level is immune.
Rothman, you make an ideal case to become an RFU blazer.

To make the statement that 'no one is immune' suggest that bees are a victim of something beyond their control.  nonsense.  they have systematically over spent and failed to invest in anything other than their dream of professional rugby at all costs.  as it turns out to the significant cost of many local businesses.  they have gambled with others people money and lost.  Now they are free to gamble again.

There but for the grace of god go i, only if i choose to be reckless with other people's money.  Bees are not a victim of the recession, nor SMBC planning decisions, they are architects of their own downfall and as an Industrial Provident Society the members had the right to call an EGM at any time rather than blindly follow their holy grail.  Rumour has it that the one member who spotted the poisoned chalice offered by Oakmoor was a lone voice.  Mark you, with such a small membership, a handful of honourable men could have made a big difference a long time ago.

The bare facts, and any Bees supporter of merit has already posted this, is that Bees do not have, and never have had, the support base to finance a fully pro team.  In fact, except for the RFU cash, they wouldn't have the income to support a semi-pro team in level 3 or 4.

The flippant ease in which you acknowledge Russell Earnshaw's achievement may well come to haunt the Championship when a prudent well managed club ends up being relegated and £300k worse off after Bees Phoenix scratches a win in the play offs.

From my point of view there must be a change in the laws of the game so that any club going into administration automatically loses their league status and is invited to rejoin the leagues the following season at the bottom, or at a level approved by the constituent body.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2009 at 23:48
Just a point about your final paragraph, champion. Changes in the laws of the game have nothing to do with anything other than what happens on the field of play. I know what you mean, but laws of the game it ain't.
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