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Topic ClosedChampionship plans thrown into chaos!

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Championship plans thrown into chaos!
    Posted: 01 May 2009 at 13:12
There's a bit more detail in the actual paper, but this was posted on the London Irish sportnetwork site earlier today
 
Championship plans thrown into chaos
By NEALE HARVEY


PREMIER RUGBY LTD is set to go to war with the Rugby Football Union over the playing structure for next season’s proposed new Championship.
Rugby Times understands the Premiership clubs are deeply opposed to plans to introduce play-offs into the new second-tier competition.
They believe that determining a single promotion place through play-offs is inherently unfair and that adopting such a system would compromise the chances of their notional ‘13th club' making a swift return to the top flight following relegation.
However, the RFU insist they are on firm legal ground and it is for them to decide how the winner of the Championship is decided.
In response, Premier Rugby is threatening to withdraw its annual £1 million payout to the second-tier clubs (currently National One) and has taken legal advice over how the RFU has gone about introducing the new Championship set-up.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 13:22

Heaven forbid if the precious 13th club wasnt immediately promoted back. How deeply unfair than any other club could even think of trying to join the elite. We should all follow the example of the Premier league who decide the winner of thier league on a much more fair basis than playoffs, they use playoffs instead. I don't think playoffs are a fair way of deciding promotion but for PRL to come out and say that is so f*****g hypocritical and thier reasoning is not because they are fighting for fairness, its because they concerened that the "13th club" might not go straight back up. Well if only 13 are actually allowed to play Premier rugby they might as well just bloody ringfence. We should keep they playoffs just to p**s off the PRL. If the playoffs are scrapped, how do any clubs get the extra income they will need just to survive. And to now change the format after clubs have began recruiting thinking the Championship would be formed is ludicrous. As you can tell, I'm slightly annoyed. The season is finished (well it should be) and the PRL have now come up with this

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 13:32
I don't know what to say, this is just so wrong on so many levels. Have the PRL being given advice by Gordon Brown?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 13:35
"It seems a shame," the Walrus said,
"To play them such a trick,
After we've brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!"
The Carpenter said nothing but
"The butter's spread too thick!"

"I weep for you," the Walrus said;
"I deeply sympathize."
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.

"O Oysters," said the Carpenter,
"You've had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?"
But answer came there none—
And this was scarcely odd, because
They'd eaten every one.  Clown
 
extract from "The Walrus & The Carpenter" Lewis Carroll


Edited by FoghornLeghorn - 01 May 2009 at 13:37
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 14:28
So is it "unfair" to decide the winner of GP (1) by a play-off?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 14:43
A case of Don't do as Do-Do as I SayAngry
 
As it happens I don't think the play offs are an ideal way to decide who goes up...unless it is for a second (or more) promotion spot. But then neither is it the way to decide who wins a league either!
 
When will PRL realise that for the club rugby to prosper and be seen to be doing so, it needs more than '13' full time professional outfits to do it. 20-24 has to be the intitial target and for all the nonesense that has ensued this season, at least things could be seen to be heading that way.
 
PRL have to be squared up to...I just don't feel that the RFU are the right people to do it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 14:53
Notice how they wait until now, months after we've all known the proposals, to kick up a fuss. Presumably they've held this objection back so that they can screw the clubsover as much as possible now we're all preparing for the competition as it was proposed. Never mind the hypocrisy of it.Angry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 15:34
Oh for pitys sake!
 
I personally do not believe in play offs for either the GP end of season or promotion but what is even more unacceptable is the GP waiting to now to kick up a fuss and their belief that they can rule other divisions apart from their own.
 
Clearly they see the potential for a banana skin. I guess Moseley proved this this season with the EDF final, where if that were a 1 off game in the playoff finals Leeds could have come unstuck.
Being realistic were this next season and Moseley had finished in the top 8 (might still do it this season Thumbs%20Up) and then beaten leeds in a play off final, would we have been promoted? No.
The ground criteria at the common does not meet standards. How many "Championship" clubs meet the standard now?
So what happens, Moseley would not go up and Leeds would still get promoted.
 
I would have thought all the GP have to do is keep putting clauses in the criteria for promotion to ensure we work our way down to the club they want back, even if they finish 8th in the playoffs.
 
I think for some time the Championship playoffs of 8 teams will be a farce where only 2 or 3 clubs could gain access to the hallowed group unless they agreed to up sticks and played at some soulless f'ball ground.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 15:36

If there was ever a case of putting this back to 2010/11, it is now. RFU have to get their house in order else they are indeed in danger of that motion of No Confidence at the AGM in July.

"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 15:56
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 16:30

I don't agree with the play offs either. but you have to understand the difference between the GP play off and that proposed for the Championship.

In the Championship, the play off is to decide the Champions.
In the GP, the play off is to please the bank manager.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 16:59
This sounds like a convenient smokescreen to give an excuse not to pay us £1,000,000.
The obvious response is to boycott the 13 team and refuse to play them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 18:06
Richard, to be fair I think the Championship playoffs are to please the bank manager as well.
They are mainly a way of guaranteeing each club another 6 games and in no way are a fair way of determining who goes up[or who wins the playoffs but is disqualified from going up, so preserving the status quo].
PRL are arguing the case from the wrong standpoint, ie seeking to protect the interests of the "13th club".
I think it's no coincidence that this challenge has come up after Moseley's Twickenham win, which has rattled the cartel's cages.
It must be odds on that the courts will decide now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 20:18
Originally posted by Henley Henley wrote:


They believe that determining a single promotion place through play-offs is inherently unfair.

OK, let them have their way. Instead of a "single promotion place through play-offs" why not have TWO promotion places, one automatic and another through play-offs?

And for the sake of consistency, as I've previously stated my objection to any play-off within the same league, have that play-off between 2nd bottom GP1 and 2nd top Championship.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 23:33
I think some of this is due to the RFU not letting them have the odds and evens extra games in the Internationals windows. They saw that as a good earner, they (PRL) are now left with the 'old' style Anglo Welsh cup. It's a bit of 'tit for tat' for spoiling their percieved earner, we'll just have to wait and see who has got the Aces in which ever forum it's decided

Edited by knightandday - 01 May 2009 at 23:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2009 at 23:52
Oh GB13
 
The naiviety is surprising
 
What are you arguments? You are already fielding, allegedly,9 or 10 Gloucester players and you still complain that you're not fit to go up?
 
My heart weeps!
 
Oh, congratulations on the cup though, great win and good to see the giants toppled, just do it with your own players! LOL!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2009 at 02:24
I know it's hard to keep up Dreamer, but do try.

It's the ground criteria that mean Mose couldn't be allowed to host the premiership clubs, our new stand is still a few years away. Some of their supporters might have to stand, and we couldn't have that, could we!

But where you really show yourself up is the comment about Glos players.

For the record
Moseley bred players in the Twickenham final: Caves, Sigley, Stott, Mason, Rodwell, Thomas, and Binns (and Hinton on the losing side!)

Dual registered Mose and Glos players in the EDF final: Roberts, Norton, Adams, Trinder.

and Trinder was in for the injured Bressington. There are very rarely more than three DR players in a Mose side, and show me another club that can boast seven or eight of their very own!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2009 at 10:13
Originally posted by Dreamer Dreamer wrote:

Oh GB13
 
The naiviety is surprising
 
What are you arguments? You are already fielding, allegedly,9 or 10 Gloucester players and you still complain that you're not fit to go up?
 
My heart weeps!
 
Oh, congratulations on the cup though, great win and good to see the giants toppled, just do it with your own players! LOL!
 
Dreamer - Dream on! Your inability to grasp what is being said because you have another agenda is what is suprising.
 
Moseley are not fielding 9 or 10 Glous players, on average 2 to 3 per game this year. (Getting a little tired of this old chestnut)
 
I never made any point about Moseley not being fit to go up. I was using this season as an example of what could happen under a playoff system.
 
My point, if you had read it properly, was not about the standard of the team but the ground criteria would have been the block. And the point I was making that there will be a number of clubs in the playoffs each season who cannot get promoted even if they win because of this. Therefore we will see the playoffs being pretty meaningless until all clubs in the playoffs having GP standard grounds. And how likely is that to happen in the short term?
 
I know a number of clubs, Moseley included, have plans to improve ground capacities and standards but in the current financial climate and with the exposure ND1 currently gets it would be impossible for this to happen in the short term.
 
Therefore my point, to make it totally clear to you was that the GP club that comes down does not have to beat all the clubs in the division, just get in the top 8 and beat those who have GP standard grounds. So why are they so worried, seems easier that current situation to me?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2009 at 12:15
It was some months ago now that it was suggested on this site that the premiership clubs should be ignored and allowed to run round their own little play-pen while the National League Clubs should organise their own competition(s), sixteen clubs a division, two up and two down, leaving the RFU to sit around their big table and talk about important matters like law changes and the pressure of balls. Each club could take responsibility for one area of organisation - travel, sponsorship, TV contract etc.  Call it revolution, call it divorce but let's not have those dreadful people from the GP and Rugby Road getting involved in our affairs any more.         
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2009 at 12:29
I suppose there is a precedent for this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_league
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