National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > National League 1
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Dropping multiple leagues
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Topic ClosedDropping multiple leagues

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dropping multiple leagues
    Posted: 23 Mar 2009 at 17:15

From the Northern Echo on Friday.

"After conceding 166 points in their last three games, the only thing that could save Darlington from relegation is the financial trouble being suffered by some clubs higher up the leagues. It is believed that a National Two club is seeking to drop down three divisions."
 
Mounts Bay? Waterloo? Otley? Just rumours?
 
 
Back to Top
Hexhamshire Lad View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 26 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1960
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2009 at 17:20
There is one other thing. They could merge with Darlington Mowden Park (as has long been mooted) and stay in the same division. Or if there is a 3 league drop, then DMP would be safe themselves at National League level.
 
The thing that makes me wary about this rumour is its preciseness. I thought a club could either drop one division or either start again at the bottom. Orrell is the only club that might set a precedent.
 
Jamie, Otley are not in ND2 - yet. There could be other clubs who have kept their financial woes out of the press. Rumours are a wonderful distraction and there's nothing wrong with speculation as long as it is clear that it is only that.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2009 at 17:26
Back to Top
Chrisloofan View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Waterloo

Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Seaforth
Status: Offline
Points: 402
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2009 at 17:30
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2009 at 18:02
My first league games were in Eastern Counties 5.

No pressure - just the crac.
Back to Top
Combe Admirer View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 02 May 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1242
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2009 at 10:37
I know Mounts Bay lost a few players on Saturday during our game, but we didn't injure that many!!!
 
Although they did have their number 8 at hooker, so as he went off with a broken nose I would imagine their inability to fulfil the fixture is down to insufficient front row players.
 
I wonder what the implication would be for Southend, as they would be looking for a bonus point win but surely the league can't award them 5 points and would only give them 4?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2009 at 12:56

Hex Lad

Re Otley - yes I realise they are in National 1, but obviously they are already relegatet o national 2. Sorry just being lazy / presumptous when typing.

I suppose the Newspaper must be referring to a Northern club, as Darlington are only affected because they are in a Northern league.
Back to Top
Hexhamshire Lad View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 26 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1960
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2009 at 22:51
Jamie, the Northern Echo is not always the most reliable of newspapers and at the risk of offending people, it has to be said that there may be a bit of wishful thinking involved based on rumours, half truths and even deliberate misunderstandings of statements made either in good faith or under the influence. All I would say is that confirmation from a second, independent source might make me more confident in the verisimilitudes of the story.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2009 at 23:57
Hex Lad , " Orrell is the only club that might set a precedent."

Orrell requested a drop of a few leagues. This was denied them and the club folded. Orrell Anvils were already in existence set up in 1997 (I think, I would need to recheck) because some old Orrell members wanted to keep rugby union in Orrell. They started at the bottom, as far as I know, and have worked their way up bit by bit. Several of the now defunct Orrell joined Orrell Anvils.

As it stands Mounts Bay start next season in Nat2 South (as it will become, unless the RFU changes its mind or 1) a miracle happens 2) total disaster happens). A few supports have posed the question about trying to drop a few leagues, but I am sure this has been nothing more than an idle suggestion.

 


Edited by DaveH - 25 Mar 2009 at 00:02
Back to Top
Janner100 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Location: Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 764
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 07:26
Originally posted by Combe Admirer Combe Admirer wrote:

I know Mounts Bay lost a few players on Saturday during our game, but we didn't injure that many!!!
 
Although they did have their number 8 at hooker, so as he went off with a broken nose I would imagine their inability to fulfil the fixture is down to insufficient front row players.
 
I wonder what the implication would be for Southend, as they would be looking for a bonus point win but surely the league can't award them 5 points and would only give them 4?
 
Quite remiss of me for not doing so earlier - but well done on WP's first ever win in Cornwall.
Back to Top
Saturnine View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
Interim Deputy Mantle Flipping Union

Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 1030
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 08:31
I do hope they will get a team together.  I don't think Bay will simply be allowed to rearrange their game and that be the end of it.  If it is true that they cannot muster a team for this weekend's fixture, I imagine they will face a points' deduction at least, and that is in addition to whatever is decided about the fixture itself.  
 
After all, if that were to go unpunished (accepting the reasons are perfectly genuine), what would stop other sides from trying it in future for more cyncial reasons?  
Back to Top
Hexhamshire Lad View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 26 May 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1960
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 08:56
I think the main reason that it cannot be left to go unpunished is that if it becomes acceptable for a game to be postponed because of insufficient front row resources (eminently sensible in its own right), the next step could be clubs 'arranging' to be in that situation as and when the need arises and rather than give anyone a chance to manipulate matters, a penalty would need to be applied. Let me stress, I am not suggesting any club would stoop to that level, but the rules ought to make that an unattractive option.
Back to Top
Sand grown 'un View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 421
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 08:59
Originally posted by Saturnine Saturnine wrote:

I do hope they will get a team together.  I don't think Bay will simply be allowed to rearrange their game and that be the end of it.  If it is true that they cannot muster a team for this weekend's fixture, I imagine they will face a points' deduction at least, and that is in addition to whatever is decided about the fixture itself.  
 
After all, if that were to go unpunished (accepting the reasons are perfectly genuine), what would stop other sides from trying it in future for more cyncial reasons?  


I agree. There was a sort of precedent in December when Waterloo pulled out of their EDF Trophy home game against Cinderford for the same 'lack of front row' reason. They conceded the tie without punishment, as far as I know, despite a lot of huffing and puffing by the NCA. But, of course, the implications in a league competition are much greater.
Back to Top
Top of the Hill View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Location: A hill,Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 1625
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 09:03
If a strong penalty does get applied, then the value of decent front-row players will hold up during the credit crunch relative to other positions due to the need to avoid stiff penalties!

Bay do have problems in getting extra cover (as do Redruth): there's a lack of teams in sufficiently high leagues down here to loan players from and to, and its a long way to come for anyone further up-country. That's not an excuse though, and clubs are going to have to ensure that they have enough front row players to cover themselves for the whole season.
@RossiT: I sit atop all creation, and all that I survey is great... and Cornish!
Back to Top
earl of essex View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Location: ESSEX
Status: Offline
Points: 230
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 11:23
CryMOUNTS BAY have called off due to lack of front row; SOUTHEND have a prematch lunch booked for 100 people, potential sponsors attending, Youth & Mini recruitment weekend starting FRI PM...what does this say about our beloved sport this is meant to be National League 2 .. what message to potential investors ?
the earl
Back to Top
Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2407
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 11:26
The other issue is that we have passed the signing cut off so I think it could only be an emergency loan but I am not sure whether there are any restrictions about this
So many Christians not enough Lions
Back to Top
Redhead View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1953
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 13:31
Emergency loans for front rows are permitted.
Hellfire Awaits
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 13:44
Personally i think it is disgusting that a side can pull out of a league game so easily, Teams have 2nd XV to deal with injuries etc, Mounts bay have coneections with various clubs e.g Albion, Pirates etc.
Not being able to field a front row has become the excuse which has replaced "the dog ate my homework"
While clubs like Waterloo are struggling to the same extent as Bay they have not thrown in the towel and are still fulfilling their fixtures, whilst it can not be fun sending a weak side to the likes of Bees, Launceston etc I think we all respect the fact they are continuing to play. (barring the cup game)
 
I feel very sorry for southend as they could end up with egg on their face and the embarrasment of hosting an event with people having no game to watch. Imagine if this had happened to your club !!!! The financial implications are huge.
 
Would there be any kind of compensation which could be claimed, or Mounts Bay sued (i know that would help the current situation... but)
Back to Top
Allan Foster View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Location: Lytham St Annes
Status: Offline
Points: 3460
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 14:00
I agree Mr Blanco. This is the National Leagues after all, not Devon & Cornwall 4 (South). The commercial implications (sponsorship, reputation, gate income etc) on the opponents of mismanaged clubs dropping out of fixtures are far too serious. Front row loan players in the vicinity must be available to step up.

I'm not so sure about your use of the word 'easy'. The NCA site still has the game as being on.


An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 5426
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2009 at 14:43
One solution is to force clubs to put up a bond or take out insurance at the start of the season to cover these costs. However, that might make being in the league uneconomic.

If Bay do not want to be relegated - and I would normally say that was a given but - then they need these points. If they give the game to Southend they are down.

Though I believe Bay are down if Blaydon win any more games including their home games against Southend or Waterloo - so the matter might be moot.

If it is just the case that Bay need to borrow a prop for a week and emegency loans are allowed, I am sure there are clubs that have a prop who is not getting game time.  "Tank" at Cambridge comes to mind.

Southend are down anyway - could they lend Bay a prop?   If it ensures the game goes ahead and the sponsors are happy surely that makes sense. It is what would happen below Cornwall 4 after all.

Camquin
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.