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Training arrangements? |
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BillesleyNomad 
World Cup Winner 
Moseley Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 737 |
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 Topic: Training arrangements?Posted: 13 Jul 2010 at 18:32 |
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With preseason now under way and most squads pretty much complete I've turned my mind to the issue of who ought to finish where in the regular season. Just to help me I was wondering if people would mind clarifying the training arrangements for their team? I'm deliberately trying to avoid the use of subjective labels like "professional" and "semi-Professional" teams and the interminable discussion that inevitably follows, just trying to get an idea of how much time players/squads have for training.
e.g. Moseley's squad is composed of players who all do something other than play rugby; some have other jobs, some do community coaching work etc withn the club. They train 3 times a week as a squad (I think).
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'To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is.' Proverbs 15:23
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steve.bott
First XV regular 
Rotherham Titans Joined: 08 Dec 2008 Online Status: Offline Posts: 116 |
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Posted: 13 Jul 2010 at 19:55 |
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I don't know for sure, but believe that Rotherham's set-up will be the same. I know some of the large number of players who left did so because the club couldn't offer them full-time contracts.
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www.dinningtonrugby.net
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titan
World Cup Winner
Rotherham Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 346 |
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Posted: 13 Jul 2010 at 22:15 |
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I think the Titans will also be training 3 times per week,especially after pre season,they are not full time,my lads at Uni for example.
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Jez
British and Irish Lion 
Joined: 02 Apr 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 288 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 08:24 |
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Our Rusty from two weeks ago:
'We are currently doing 3 rugby sessions a week, Tuesday night, Wednesday night and Thursday morning. There are also a couple of 'optional' skills sessions and around that Kempy [fitness chappie] is managing everyone's individual conditioning'.
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Jez of the Bees Mafia
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Halliford
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 167 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 09:37 |
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Esher are training 3 or 4 times each week until matches start, then 3 times in most weeks. Around 8 Esher-contracted players are training full-time with Harlequins/Wasps. There is a 1 week training camp in Italy in early August (as last season). New addition is Pete Richards as 1st XV Coach (ex-L Irish and England scrum-half) specialising with the backs.
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Joemac
First XV regular
Joined: 16 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 148 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 12:18 |
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Mac and BN. You surely know we all read each others message boards and chat forums.
Posted on Moseley Board
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GB13
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 704 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 12:47 |
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good to see you following the developments of a decent club at last Joemac
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BillesleyNomad
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 737 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 12:49 |
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[QUOTE=Joemac]
Mac and BN. You surely know we all read each others message boards and chat forums.
Indeed I do, so certainly no need to shout about it in an absurdly large font. Also begs the question as to why you felt it necessary to copy the post on this board as everyone will have read it any way. All a bit "schoolyard" don't you think?
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'To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is.' Proverbs 15:23
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Joemac
First XV regular
Joined: 16 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 148 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 13:25 |
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BN.
It struck me as amusing; like a little boy being caught with his hand in the sweety jar, but you obviousy do not see the irony.
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BillesleyNomad
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 737 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 13:45 |
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I think you probably have to think like the proverbial little boy to see it that way!
Now, a reply to Mac's message on our board signed Rusty would actualy have been amusing, copying it here with a big shouty comment has rather spoiled the effect. Still, top marks for effort, just have to work on the execution a little. (why isn't there a patronising pat on the head emoticon?)
Anyway, enough schoolyard silliness, back to the thread.
It looks like our pre-season routine is pretty rigourous but of course there's a world of difference between doing that and having to go to work and "full-timers" being able to rest fully between sessions and keep it up through the season. That's really the point of this thread; to help people make informed judgments about the likely league positions of the various teams given a few clubs having announced cut backs etc Edited by BillesleyNomad - 14 Jul 2010 at 14:09 |
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'To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is.' Proverbs 15:23
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CratchBees
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Location: New York Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 14:04 |
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Is it the school holidays or some thing? A lot of people have a lot of time on their hands methinks ....."never has one man written so many posts about precisely nothing" (Anon 2010)
Edited by CratchBees - 14 Jul 2010 at 14:05 |
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BillesleyNomad
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 737 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 14:14 |
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Cratch, you really shouldn't be so hard on Joemac - he's clearly trying his best
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'To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is.' Proverbs 15:23
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Joemac
First XV regular
Joined: 16 May 2008 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 148 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 14:28 |
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In the past, whenever I have had the "audacity" to post on the Moseley Message Board, for whatever reason, I have been told where to go, in no uncertain terms. Why should I expect any future mailings from a Bees supporter, to be received with anything other than contempt, let alone good humour? I would also suggest that you practice what you preach in regard to putting on this forum what is freely available for all to be see on other boards and publications.
PS. You may think you are being highly amusing and entertaining to an adoring audience, with your sarcasm and glib remarks,but I think most readers will see that you are all bluff. Edited by Joemac - 14 Jul 2010 at 14:46 |
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CratchBees
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Location: New York Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 14:34 |
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BN is the Moseley Message Board at the moment! To his credit he is clearly looking forward to the new season, hopefully not as the misguided England football fans were before the World Cup. The local pnone box must be out of order otherwise a good row could be had there.
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BillesleyNomad
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 737 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 15:05 |
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Ooooh, all getting a bit personal isn't it?
Joe, have you considered that it may be the nature of your postings that elicited such reactions as you describe?
What have I not posted here that I ought to have done? In opening this thread I posted to the best of my knowledge what Moseley's regular trainingg commitments are. If that can be shown to be at odds with anything I have "preached" please do so; I'm at a loss
More to the point if the information is freely available for all to see why should repetition on here be necessary?
Cratch, I am indeed looking forward to the new season but please don't confuse my anticipation with the mindless, unfounded optimism of those poor deluded souls who think the Football World Cup is England's by right and that Carling is a "decent pint". I actually think the battle to avoid the bottom 4 is going to be very tough again this season and I fully expect both our clubs to be heavily inolved in it. In asking which squads will be training full or part time this season I'm just trying to get a sense of who we might be most closely matched with.
I'm not sure of the status of the phone box but being in a Derbyshire village I'm sure it's pretty low on BT's priority list. I'll have a look next time I'm driving my geese to market
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'To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is.' Proverbs 15:23
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champion
World Cup Winner
Joined: 01 Jul 2009 Online Status: Offline Posts: 905 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 15:08 |
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There's only one way to decide this....... FIGHT!
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CratchBees
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 15 Jul 2007 Location: New York Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 15:18 |
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I am also looking forward to the new season and I hope that I will see more games than last season! At least the flights are cheaper from here. I think I understand your interest in training regimes but I am not sure that I would attach the value to it that BN might.
E.G. both Bees and Cove were full time last year but it didnt seem to do a lot of good on paper (or indeed financially)
I would suggest that the quality of player, motivation and team sprit is actually more important that maybe training constantly an inferior player.
Now what else can we argue about...............
Champion you are normally good at lighting the blue touch paper.....
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BillesleyNomad
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 05 Jun 2007 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 737 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 15:33 |
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Cratch I absolutely agree that training routines are one factor among many but thought it might be a useful piece of information alongside the squad lists to get a bit of an idea of who's nearer to whom in terms of competetiveness. It seems to me the big problem Bees had last year was a lack of sufficient quality upfront - your backline looked capable of causing most teams trouble. As you've rightly suggested; you can train as much as you like but you need a certain level of ability to start with. Moseley on the otherhand had (and seem to have again) a very good set of forwards and I'm pleased with the additions to our backline but while the inherant quality of our squad is high they are obviously hampered by the need to perform other duties alongisde playing and training.
I'm interested to see what will happen at Bris as while they have kept a certain degree of quaility in the squad and will be training fulltime there is a bit of muttering on their message board about the commitment of some players who are seen as possibly having stayed out of necessity rather than choice on massively reduced salaries. Shaping up for another very interesting season.
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'To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season, how good it is.' Proverbs 15:23
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alcoholic
Academy player 
Joined: 18 Jun 2010 Location: Bristol Online Status: Offline Posts: 23 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 17:01 |
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The Bristol squad, in my opinion is shaping up nicely. I am on the side that thinks that players who have resigned (especially the ones that did so quickly after all the "issues") have done so for genuine reasons, and not because they cannot find a club.
The likes of Luke Eves, The Arscott's, Lee Robinson, James Phillips and Redford Pennycook have all moved on because they have ambition that wants to take them to the highest place they can ply their trade. Whether this is a good move for them or not, is yet to be seen.
I think it's been proved with Jason Spice, that if a player wants to get out of his contract he will.
So I want to think that the guys staying have the drive and ambition to make Bristol great again! (slowly but surely!) As for Training, I am not sure. Pre season has started, and couple of friendlies in August to wet the appetite. I can only assume it is full time (well at least 5 days a week for a few hours a day.)
For one thing, I don't think Bristol openly advertise what the players training schedules are, or even hint at how much the players train. I don't think that's been the Bristol way. Which could explain in part the dissassociation some of the fans feel with the club.
Interestingly enough, we have offered a training program to 9 local lads (when I say local I mean playing locally or in a local Uni, not Bristolians) to train on a part time basis with Bristol Academy, and their coaches.
Matt Salter thinks their is some real quality/rough diamonds in the bunch, and that some of them might get a shot at the first team next season? Although they are only here at the moment as unpaid players, I don't know if they will go semi pro or even get a pro contract for the season.
It's still very interesting to see some teams are still operating on a part time basis even though the RFU are trying to make the Championship fully professional. and the Gulf between the two leagues only seems to be widening what with Leicester's call to raise the salary cap.
I personally can only see a small number of teams currently outside of the top 13 that could realistically consider themselves ready, or close to being ready to make a challenge for the Premiership.
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Garvey4England
First XV squad 
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Location: Worcester Online Status: Offline Posts: 44 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 20:00 |
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I'm quite happy to read "stuff" that has been cut and pasted off the Moseley site as I really don't have the time to read everyone else's message board or forum.
What's the problem ?
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Squadron Leader
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Location: Southwell, Nott Online Status: Offline Posts: 270 |
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Posted: 14 Jul 2010 at 20:35 |
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BN
I admire your sentiment in starting this thread. However to try and elicit a sensible relationship between those clubs that can afford to have 'full-time' squads/full time training schedules against the part-timers you have to look a little deeper.
The bizarre comment by our Esher correspondent Hallifords who stated that there were 7 or 8 or 'their contracted squad' who were in full time training regimes with Quins and Wasps probably sums it all up nicely.
How on earth can you start to compare like for like when you have anomolies/perversities such as this! Are these guys d/r or contracted to Esher? I think until all clubs declare exactly what their status is regarding their players contractual details it is a fairly pointless exercise trying to relate how many days a week clubs train to their potential league position next season!!
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Upward and Onward!
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Halliford
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 167 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 08:27 |
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Morning SL! Awakened from hibernation. I will say again to you - these are Esher players, not D/R. The arrangement benefits Esher and gives the Premiership Clubs a long-term view of these players who are not contracted to them!
D/R applies only to England Academy players, Loan applies only to players originally contracted to Premiership Clubs and then loaned (note the word) to other Clubs. What I'm talking about is players originally contracted to Esher then invited to train with Harlequins/Wasps. Got it yet?
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Exeforever
World Cup Winner
Joined: 22 May 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1313 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 11:09 |
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Drew Locke is also d/r to Pirates but training at Exeter: "Locke, who joined Chiefs mid-season in 2009/10 from Coventry, will also spend time with the Pirates, but will train full-time at Sandy Park, unless he is needed by the Cornish outfit." Exe Official site. Presumably he will only be used as injury or loss of form cover by Pirates, though: "Exeter Chiefs head coach Rob Baxter said today: “I really think this arrangement will work well for ourselves, Pirates and, most importantly, the players. Young players need game-time more than anything else and this will ensure that Tom and Drew get plenty of opportunities to get on the field. “ All seems a bit messy to me.
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former9
First XV squad
Joined: 22 May 2010 Location: Devon Online Status: Offline Posts: 50 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 11:40 |
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I can fully understand what Halliford is saying and how it works, i was playing for a lower level club back in the late 80's and training with a big team.
facilities, coaching and training time was significantly better for me. and that was "im afarid" a long time ago nothing new in this thread.
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Squadron Leader
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 24 Apr 2009 Location: Southwell, Nott Online Status: Offline Posts: 270 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 11:44 |
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Hallifords
I never hibernate - I just go into stealth mode!
Your training 'arrangements' sound fantastic but can't do much for the integrity and sense of loyalty at Esher? Why not send the rest of the squad out to London Irish and save all the hassle getting the scrummaging machine out at all?!
I'm still very suspicious of the 'special ones' contractual details but can only assume that not only do you know how to sell motoring bits and pieces but you also know a bit about your chosen team......?
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Upward and Onward!
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Halliford
British and Irish Lion
Joined: 17 Feb 2010 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 167 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 12:21 |
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Which, SL, shows a real lack of knowledge of Club rugby at this level! It enhances the loyalty of players to be given that opportunity. The inteegrity is built by the DoR, coaches and senior players working in transparent, accountable ways with players.
I hate to say it but I'm wondering if you're past your fly-by date?
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Wireless
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Joined: 08 May 2009 Location: Shrewsbury Online Status: Offline Posts: 329 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 13:47 |
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Even if the primary feathers go grey and wither a bit, he'll still maintain flight level by adjusting the handle bar on his upper lip.
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There's always next week...
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GB13
World Cup Winner
Moseley Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 704 |
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 15:02 |
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Maybe we should check his certificate of airworthiness?
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EDF National Trophy Winners 2009
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cheshire exile
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 15:04 |
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I think S/L has a point inasmuchas players training "full time" must by definition be full timers,hence descriptions of Esher's squad as semi-pro are not strictly accurate.
{Plus I feel a bit sorry for the old boy with everyone ganging up on him before the Notts supporters even log on.......}
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thomas snr
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Posted: 15 Jul 2010 at 15:47 |
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the cynic might suggest that this is an arrangement to get over the small problem of salary caps in the Premiership.
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