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Halfway Attendances

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AndyI View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 12:47
Ok folks, after 11 games we are half way through the regular season. So I thought I'd post the attendance stats so you can see the movers and shakers.

Team                2012/13      +/- 2011/12 regular season (no playoffs)

Bristol                  4695                       - 523
Newcastle            3846                      - 1465 (AP gate)
Bedford                2771                      + 435
Jersey                  2131                         n/a
Leeds                  2033                       - 282
Pirates                 1834                      - 171
Plymouth              1721                        - 40
Notts                    1715                     + 442
Rotherham           1351                       -  92
London Scot         1088                      - 185
Donny                   1014                     -  374
Moseley                  960                      + 134

Overall                   2120                     + 215

You can debate those, As i'm off to Bruges for Some Glugwein and Quality beer Smile
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LancashireLass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LancashireLass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 12:57
According to the meeting that my husband attended at Scottish last week attendances are actually up on last year.
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mdg99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdg99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 13:02
maybe that is because the 2011/12 figures are for the whole season and the 2012/13 for up to now. and the ones used in the meeting were a direct comparison (as in number of games)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 13:24

Have you used Statbunker for this?

As I understand it, their figures are inaccurate.
 
Bristols statician has compiled a thorough listing of average attendances this season.
Search for @BrisRugbyStato (I think) on twitter and there are multiple tweets in the last week regarding this very topic.
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Bluesman11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluesman11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 15:11
The Bedford figure will be inflated by the very large attendence for the Newcastle game (over 4000). I expect the 2nd half of the season average will be lower, although the boxing day game has tended to draw in 3000+ in recent years

Edited by Bluesman11 - 05 Dec 2012 at 15:13
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Bluesman11 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluesman11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 15:16
Seems Doncaster's switch to Friday nights hasn't had a negative effect on attendences
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Mark Smith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Smith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 15:23
Getting accurate attendance figures (or to be more specific, 'tickets sold' figures) in a timely fashion from some clubs is impossible, certainly for the purposes of including them in that day's match report.
 
It has got to the point where some club's figures are so unreliable I refuse to include them in the papers, and some clubs just don't even bother trying to give an accurate figure.
 
I should stress, given my location, that I do not include Newcastle in this. They normally have an accurate 'tickets sold' figure available to the media just after half-time, and they are transparent about how the number is reached.
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SK 88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 15:46
All clubs should be keeping two figures.  Tickets sold for VAT purposes and actual people in the ground for Health and Safety.  very poor form for clubs to not be able to get these to the media before their deadlines, if not as early as half time.
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Phil Novis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Novis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 16:42
I have heard many times of clubs that include season tickets sold in the match day total, irrespective of whether those people actually turn up. I have always thought that this practice was wrong.

To me, attendance numbers should be just that - a count of the number of people who choose to enter the ground for that match. Anything else is, in my humble opinion, nonsense.

All sources of attendance figures across the leagues are also continually accused of being in-accurate.

I suspect the accusations of in-accuracy are down to many reasons but there does not seem to be any requirement from either the games administrators or local authorities (from a Health and Safety perspective) to report accurately the number of people in a ground. With attendances of in excess of 1,000 at many games and over 3K and 4K on a number of occasions, this surprises me.

It also amazes me the number of attendance figures that are reported as round numbers, e.g. 950, 1500, etc. That might happen on very rare occasions but certainly not the rate at which they are reported.

I fail to see why there's so little concern from the game's governing bodies to get accurate numbers. Surely that must be in the interests of the game as if you can't measure accurately the attendances, you will be unable to measure how changes are helping or not the game grow and develop.

Rant over!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedOrDead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 17:05
Good points one and all Phil, I don't understand what is so difficult about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HandsintheRuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 18:00
Albion slight fall in numbers, albeit down by a very tiny amount, is very probably due to the appalling weather for the Bristol game.  I'm surprised anyone turned up at all...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Novis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 18:33
One reason I find it hard to understand the problems is that at Bedford, we have turn-styles with counters and that's the only way that people are allowed into the ground. They cannot be reset so a simple subtraction of the number at the start from the number at half-time gives us an accurate total.

The only people who get in through the gates and not through the turn-styles are the staff, teams and any support staff such as St John's Ambulance.

In addition, anyone who's in a wheelchair or due to some other reason cannot physically get through the turn-styles is allowed through one of the main gates but they (normally a very small number) are counted on a hand counter and that's added to the turn-style totals.

It's not difficult and not expensive to do it accurately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheshire exile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 18:36
Most Pirates' home games have coincided with bad weather, depressing gates for the Falcons game in particular.
I guess the above numbers don't include Sunday's particularly poor turnout?
 
On the other hand, our mid table position has probably put off fair weather followers as well.
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SK 88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SK 88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 19:40
Phil, certainly in the bigger stadiums there is a requirement to know how many people are in the ground as part of your fire safety certificate.

Tickets sold is counted for VAT.  VAT on ticket sales only becomes collectable once the event has happened, so the season tickets have to be counted in every game as progressively more and more of the VAT on it becomes collectable.

Any club charging for entry must keep the second figure, almost all clubs fire safety certificate will need the first collecting. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonehousealbion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 21:04
Falcons, of course, being an "elite" team, previously in an "elite" league, employ laser(?) barcode readers so should have crowd numbers in almost real time. Also like some other teams, their ticket checkers are third party staff, and so their figures are probably more objective. Other clubs have "clickers" which would be less rigorous.

Albion usually announce the total, which I think is a good thing all round - one soon develops an "eye" for the crowd as a result. If nothing else, it seems to be one of those things that the regulars want to know at the time - like the elapsed time since KO. seems to me that these should be mandatory parts of the QA side of operating at Level 2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nottmrugbymad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2012 at 22:18
Notts improvement is in no small part down to a lot of hard work from the off-pitch boys and girls who are really giving it the beans. Excellent.
If only Nottingham was in Wales it would be perfect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluebuthappy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2012 at 14:26
Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Seems Doncaster's switch to Friday nights hasn't had a negative effect on attendences

It would appear you forgot to add the winking smiley at the end of you post Bluesman.
Either that or you are employing George Osbourne type optimism in thinking that a reduction of 374 (over 25%) isn't a negative effect? 

Interesting to note that Bedford's average attendance has gone up by over 400 despite all the disgruntled posts on HYS (Bedfords web forum) at the start of the season. The 'Newcastle effect' will have helped a bit but on the flipside we've lost London Welsh who always managed to draw a fair few extra Taffs out of the closets of Bedfordshire, and we played them at GR twice last season.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knightandday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2012 at 19:12
Originally posted by Bluebuthappy Bluebuthappy wrote:

Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Seems Doncaster's switch to Friday nights hasn't had a negative effect on attendences

It would appear you forgot to add the winking smiley at the end of you post Bluesman.
Either that or you are employing George Osbourne type optimism in thinking that a reduction of 374 (over 25%) isn't a negative effect? 



Still have Roth and Nottingham to come, always boosts the figures.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2012 at 19:21
Originally posted by SK 88 SK 88 wrote:

Phil, certainly in the bigger stadiums there is a requirement to know how many people are in the ground as part of your fire safety certificate.

Tickets sold is counted for VAT.  VAT on ticket sales only becomes collectable once the event has happened, so the season tickets have to be counted in every game as progressively more and more of the VAT on it becomes collectable.

Any club charging for entry must keep the second figure, almost all clubs fire safety certificate will need the first collecting. 
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What's VAT?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bluesman11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2012 at 00:06
Originally posted by Bluebuthappy Bluebuthappy wrote:

Originally posted by Bluesman11 Bluesman11 wrote:

Seems Doncaster's switch to Friday nights hasn't had a negative effect on attendences

It would appear you forgot to add the winking smiley at the end of you post Bluesman.
Either that or you are employing George Osbourne type optimism in thinking that a reduction of 374 (over 25%) isn't a negative effect? 

 
 
A typo actually!
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