National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Regional Premier Leagues
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Halifax gone?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Topic ClosedHalifax gone?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
DICKON View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 27 May 2009
Location: Roehampton
Status: Offline
Points: 379
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2009 at 13:57

If Luton have been moved back to the Midlands, they have not been told yet! http://www.lutonrugby.com/ and the RFU London site (updated yesterday) still has them in the London division http://www.rfulondon.com/. Think we will all have to wait until after Monday to see this cleared up!

Back to Top
Richard Lowther View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 19 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 4397
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2009 at 16:08
Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

 
Is it possible to do this in respect of the National Leagues?  I assumed not and that a club can only have one team entered into the National Leagues.  There are of course various Merit leagues to give teams below the first XV competative games.  Otherwise by now level two would be populated by Leicester Cubs, Harlequins II, Northampton Sinners, Bath Taps, Hornets (not the Rochdale variety) etc etc.  Although Gloucester have got round it by adopting Hartpury College (I shall not make any wisecracks about Moseley as they can be a bit touchy on the subjectWink).
 

I don’t see why not. Once the ‘new’ team enters the league, they are considered ‘independent’/’separate’ clubs by the RFU and will have separate playing registries etc. This is what happened with Wakefield and their old ‘4th’s who formed as Wakefield Cougars and played in Yorkshire 4/5 whilst Wakefield played in NL1.

Moderator National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2009 at 17:04
Latest I have heard is that a plan has been formulated to cover the chances of Halifax withdrawing from the leagues and we will be put in the picture on Monday.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2009 at 09:39
A small piece in the courier about what could happen with the leagues now Halifax have pulled out:
 
Back to Top
Allan Foster View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Location: Lytham St Annes
Status: Offline
Points: 3460
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2009 at 09:48
Originally posted by Yarak Yarak wrote:

A small piece in the courier about what could happen with the leagues now Halifax have pulled out:
 

I don't understand about how Penzance-based N2S club MB's position will benefit DMP. They're in different regions. Surely, if a relegated level four club was to be reprieved then it would be Chinnor who finished in penultimate place in (old style) N3S last season.

But I think that I've seen something somewhere which states that if MB do fail then the new N2S will run with 15 clubs. Oh what a confusing mess! Let's hope that MB survive and the current membership at level 4 is maintained.
An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
Back to Top
FixSec View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 288
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2009 at 08:46
Allan, I think they are confusing Darlington and Darlington MP.  Darlington were demoted from Level 5 (the old North 1) to Level 6, Darlington MP were demoted from Level 4 (the old National 3 North) to Level 5.
 
My understanding is: if MB drop out, there is a gap in N2S.  Spot on about Chinnor: they would be reprieved as they had a better record than Havant .
 
That would leave a gap at Level 5.  Darlington would be reprieved and return to N3N.  The only other team to be demoted from Level 5 was Haywards Heath, and I believe they have already been reprieved due to Halifax withdrawing.
 
Sheffield get moved to N3M again, Luton to N3L again, Bracknell back to where they belong in N3SW to fill the gap left by Chinnor.
 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2009 at 12:20
Rugby used to be a simple game. 
Back to Top
Caesar View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 2009
Location: Stotfold
Status: Offline
Points: 120
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2009 at 13:07
Originally posted by DaveH DaveH wrote:

Rugby used to be a simple game. 
 
and then the RFU joined in!  Wink
Back to Top
cheshire exile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2045
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2009 at 19:46
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

 
Is it possible to do this in respect of the National Leagues?  I assumed not and that a club can only have one team entered into the National Leagues.  There are of course various Merit leagues to give teams below the first XV competative games.  Otherwise by now level two would be populated by Leicester Cubs, Harlequins II, Northampton Sinners, Bath Taps, Hornets (not the Rochdale variety) etc etc.  Although Gloucester have got round it by adopting Hartpury College (I shall not make any wisecracks about Moseley as they can be a bit touchy on the subjectWink).
 

I don’t see why not. Once the ‘new’ team enters the league, they are considered ‘independent’/’separate’ clubs by the RFU and will have separate playing registries etc. This is what happened with Wakefield and their old ‘4th’s who formed as Wakefield Cougars and played in Yorkshire 4/5 whilst Wakefield played in NL1.

 
Penzance & Newlyn Amateurs, the [bear with me here] absolutely amateur team at Pz& N [whose first team is the Cornish Pirates] have tried more than once to gain admittance to the league structure via Cornwall 2 . They have been told that the CRFU policy is that only one team connected with any individual club can be part of the league structure.
Mind you, the CRFU can on occasion make the RFU's decisions look like the wisdom of Solomon.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Rugby supporters
Rugby supporters
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2009 at 10:16
I think its at the discretion of the Constituent body you lie under.  Walsham were denied having a second XV in the Eastern Counties league 4-5 years ago.  However I think there are some second teams in the Hampshire & Yorkshire leagues.  I assume the stipulation would be that you cannot be promoted out of the constituent body leagues into the regional leagues?
Back to Top
donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Location: er...Sheffield?
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2009 at 13:18
Richard - But did the Wakefield IVs who became the Cougers become a seperately consitituted club?  If so then the rule would not have been broken.  It appears from the other posters that a club is not allowed more than one team in the national leagues.
 
FixSec - It is Sheffield Tigers (incidently my grandfathers old club, where he was an honourary life member, before moving to Doncaster, where he also became an honourary life member) not Sheffield (Club) that is in N3M.  It is confusing if more than one team from a town/cityWink
 
Lord have mercy on me; keep me away from Leeds: I've been before; it's not what I'm looking for
Back to Top
Richard Lowther View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 19 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 4397
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2009 at 14:24
Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

Richard - But did the Wakefield IVs who became the Cougers become a seperately consitituted club?  If so then the rule would not have been broken.  It appears from the other posters that a club is not allowed more than one team in the national leagues.
 
 

Donnylad, I think you miss the point.

 

With the exception of some of the Southern leagues, where 2nd and 3rds etc enter teams which are still part and parcel of the main club and which may not be allowed to rise up the leagues, there are also teams (and Wakefield were just one) where the 4ths form – what the RFU recognise as a separate club – but which the ordinary supporter of the main club would still call the 4th of the main club. It is a subtle difference but an important one.

 

When the ‘new separate’ club is recognised by the RFU, it can rise up the leagues as far as it wants, as it is now ‘separate’ from the ‘old main’ club in the RFU eyes, if not separate in the eyes of the ordinary supporter – for example, it shares the same ground as the ‘main’ club, it plays in the same colours, the players drink in the same club house etc.

 

Most of the 4th’s took this approach to guarantee themselves regular rugby against a similar standard opposition – something that they were finding hard to do once teams were cutting down on running 3rds/4ths rugby for various reasons.

 

I should add it is different to the main clubs ‘2nds’ playing in any merit league as part and parcel of the main club.

Moderator National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC
Back to Top
Ragbi Mzee View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: God'sOwn County
Status: Offline
Points: 295
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2009 at 18:19
Otley are entering a team into the new Yorkshire 6. The team is designated as a "Community First XV for amateur players only." They will be known as the Otley Knights and will double as the Saracens team (our pre-existing 2nd XV), they will play a mixture of league fixtures and games against Second XV teams.

We hope they will progress up the leagues over time!


Edited by Ragbi Mzee - 17 Jun 2009 at 18:20
Back to Top
Janner100 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Location: Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 764
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2009 at 21:49
Originally posted by cheshire exile cheshire exile wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:


 

Is it possible to do this in respect of the National Leagues?  I assumed not and that a club can only have one team entered into the National Leagues.  There are of course various Merit leagues to give teams below the first XV competative games.  Otherwise by now level two would be populated by Leicester Cubs, Harlequins II, Northampton Sinners, Bath Taps, Hornets (not the Rochdale variety) etc etc.  Although Gloucester have got round it by adopting Hartpury College (I shall not make any wisecracks about Moseley as they can be a bit touchy on the subjectWink).

 


<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I don’t see why not. Once the ‘new’ team enters the league, they are considered ‘independent’/’separate’ clubs by the RFU and will have separate playing registries etc. This is what happened with <?: prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><ST1:CITY w:st="on">Wakefield</ST1:CITY> and their old ‘4th’s who formed as Wakefield Cougars and played in Yorkshire 4/5 whilst <ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">Wakefield</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY> played in NL1.


 

Penzance & Newlyn Amateurs, the [bear with me here] absolutely amateur team at Pz& N [whose first team is the Cornish Pirates] have tried more than once to gain admittance to the league structure via Cornwall 2 . They have been told that the CRFU policy is that only one team connected with any individual club can be part of the league structure.

Mind you, the CRFU can on occasion make the RFU's decisions look like the wisdom of Solomon.


The CRFU are a really forward thing body (said with some irony).
Back to Top
FixSec View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 288
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2009 at 10:17
Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

....FixSec - It is Sheffield Tigers ... not Sheffield (Club) that is in N3M.  It is confusing if more than one team from a town/cityWink 
I did indeed mean Sheffield Tigers.  Please accept my apologies for any confusion caused.
Back to Top
FixSec View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 288
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2009 at 10:40
Some CBs allow 2nd, 3rd etc teams to play in their leagues, mostly in the South West Division: Berks, Bucks, Oxfordshire, Dorset & Wilts, Somerset and Sussex (London Division).  There is a limit to how high these teams can rise in the pyramid.  Taking Sussex as an example, no 2nd etc. team can go higher than Sussex 1 (Level 9).
 
Didn't Mounts Bay start off as Penzance / Newlyn 2nds?
 
I gather from the posts above that a different system is used in the North, though I am not sure if there is a relationship in all cases: Rotherham / Rotherham Phoenix, Otley / Otley Knights, Pontefract / Pontefract Pythons (all Yorkshire), Wigton / Wigton Wanderers, Workington / Workington  Steelers, Aspatria / Aspatria Eagles (all Cumbria). 
Back to Top
donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Location: er...Sheffield?
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2009 at 13:12
Richard
 
Not sure I missed the point.  I was intererested in the actual technical rules not how it may appear to supporters which is your point.  However it is now clear that there is not one rule but many different ones at regional levels.
 
Now is there one consistant rule applied to the leagues at national level? 
 
My interest is that we at Doncaster have problems in getting fixtures for our A team and have no way of retaining promising young players who do not make the professional squad.  This has atracted some critisism on our forum but I defended the club saying that without another league team at a lower level these players are bound to leave and play at the highest league level they can with another club.  If we were able to put in another team that may solve the issue, albeit after a number of years as the team would have to work its way up the league structure.  If this were allowed I am sure GP teams would have done it years ago so that by now  the second tier of league rugby would be the A teams of the GP sides (hence my earlier posts).  This would then save them the problem of having to loan/dual register players to other clubs to get experience.  The undesirability of that is I think obvious hence my asumption it was not allowed.
 
Gloucester have clearly decided to 'adopt' Hartpury College for that very reason and are just waiting on their inexorable rise up the leagues (at which point Moseley will be surplus to requirements for dual registration purposes).
 
Sorry that this post is not on topic but it has sort of followed the thread.  Feel free to move it somewhere more appropriate.
Lord have mercy on me; keep me away from Leeds: I've been before; it's not what I'm looking for
Back to Top
Buck View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Location: Bridgwater
Status: Offline
Points: 416
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2009 at 14:15
I was bored so I looked up the regulations on this. It states as follows:

Quote (c) At level 8 & below 1st XV, 2nd XV, 3rd XV teams etc., may, subject to paragraph 3(d) below, be permitted to play together in the leagues with the consent of the Clubs, Constituent Bodies and Divisional Organising Committees involved;

(d) Teams from the same Club shall not be permitted to play together in the same league;

I interpret this to mean that no 2nd or 3rd XV can rise above level 8 but then I may well be wrong Tongue

Somerset re-structured their leagues about 3 years ago. In the first season Bridgwater entered the 2nd's into Somerset 2 south and the 3rd's into Somerset 3 south. Both teams gained promotion in the first year but the seconds subsequently pulled out of the league system as most of the games were mismatches and the amount of walkovers the 2nds were given was insane (although I can see why teams did it). The seconds went back to the West of England Merit table and the 3rd's still play in the Somerset leagues. The way I read it the 3rd's would never be allowed to rise above Somerset Premier league if they ever got into it.

Taunton & Weston-Super-Mare have both their 2nd's & 3rd's playing in the Somerset leagues giving them a full league programme of fixtures.

On another note, Gloucester are not the only team with their hands in the Hartpury pie. Cinderford have been using some of these guys for at least the last 2 seasons.




Back to Top
donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Location: er...Sheffield?
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2009 at 14:36
Cheers Buck.  Should just have done that myselfEmbarrassed
 
So there is one regulation that allows for different applications!
 
I think your interpretation is the one that is intended and clearly the one that is applied although a strict literal reading could mean that the first team would need to be at level 8 or below as well (should have got a lawyer to read itShocked).  I think the wording 'play together in the leagues' as opposed to wording such as 'enter the leagues' means that promotion above level 8 would not be allowed.
 
Whilst Cinderford may be using Hartpury players I think Gloucester are the only ones providing financial backing.


Edited by donnyladinsheffield - 18 Jun 2009 at 14:42
Lord have mercy on me; keep me away from Leeds: I've been before; it's not what I'm looking for
Back to Top
donnyladinsheffield View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Location: er...Sheffield?
Status: Offline
Points: 1079
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2009 at 14:39
Originally posted by Ragbi Mzee Ragbi Mzee wrote:

Otley are entering a team into the new Yorkshire 6. The team is designated as a "Community First XV for amateur players only." They will be known as the Otley Knights and will double as the Saracens team (our pre-existing 2nd XV), they will play a mixture of league fixtures and games against Second XV teams.

We hope they will progress up the leagues over time!
 
But not too far if Buck is correctCry
Lord have mercy on me; keep me away from Leeds: I've been before; it's not what I'm looking for
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.