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Heading for the Championship

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billesleyexile View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 11:05
Originally posted by Rob C Rob C wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

I have to say that while I miss visiting some of the Championship clubs, I really don't miss the Championship... There's something wrong there, where tier 1's a de facto closed shop, tier 3 is a lot of fun where you can throw the ball around and play expansive rugby (although we haven't had much fun this season....), and tier 2 is a weird no man's land that has the advantages of neither above nor below and a mickey mouse cup thrown in. 

While I'd love Mose to be playing at the highest level possible, if there was a way of becoming the Bedford of National 1 and just sitting top half year after year I reckon that would be preferable to being the Bedford of the Championship. At least we'd have a league game every Saturday.


Championship and fun are two words rarely mentioned in the same sentence.  To be fair we were forewarned but attritional is perhaps the best word for most of the matches I've watched...

Cov tried the style of rugby that won them National League One early in the season but now seem to have resigned themselves to adopting aerial ping pong / bash it up through the middle rugby.  Very disappointing.

Yes, I think I was one of the ones doing the warning! Cov deserved to go up and take their promotion, and despite my thoughts on the Championship I was happy for them. We had a decade of bore-fests largely in the Championship, relegation to National 1 genuinely felt like a liberation.

That's not right - it points to structural failings. One or two clubs trying to go up, a couple happy to sit in the middle with no more ambition, and everyone else desperately trying not to come last... Attritional is certainly one of the politer words that you could use to describe the style of rugby that keeps the central funding cheque coming in.

Being scrupulously fair, of course, National 1 has its own problems - just that they tend to be off-pitch and related to facilities IMO. We've probably got too many clubs that rely on a cheque book to sign great teams, without worrying about infrastructure. The actual rugby is much more fun for the spectators.

Personally I'd be looking at introducing MSC for the National Leagues (or at least N2 upwards) - e.g. no one should be at Level 3 without at least 500 covered seats and floodlights, and taking Level 2 to at least two if not 3 down every year. If nothing else it would shake some of the lower Level 2 clubs out of their torpor. I say that even though it would have seen Mose down a lot earlier than we eventually left. 

Like I say, I miss going to Pirates and Bedford in particular*, but I don't miss the league.

*and all the great people I met at every other club (never got to Jersey), but there are great people down here too....
 




Edited by billesleyexile - 12 Mar 2019 at 11:08
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corporalcarrot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 11:56
Originally posted by Rob C Rob C wrote:

Championship and fun are two words rarely mentioned in the same sentence.  To be fair we were forewarned but attritional is perhaps the best word for most of the matches I've watched...

Cov tried the style of rugby that won them National League One early in the season but now seem to have resigned themselves to adopting aerial ping pong / bash it up through the middle rugby.  Very disappointing.
 

I watched Albion play DMP on Saturday and Pirates play Jersey on Sunday and thoroughly enjoyed both games which were an object lesson in the difference between the two leagues. The Championship is a country mile ahead in fitness, speed & conditioning of players, forward power and most of all defence - there were probably twice as many tries than dominant tackles at Brickfields. The banter on the terrace and beer in the bar was equally as good at both Brickfields and the Mennaye. At its best the Championship produces great expansive rugby and clubs like Blues, Scottish, Pirates and even Jersey on their day can be a delight to watch but at the top of the tree its very often exclusively forward power & five metre lineouts and mauled tries with the Hooker as the top scorer. Personally I'd rather watch Albion than the very top clubs in the Championship where ambition has often lead to very limited but effective rugby. Jersey's position and limited population probably excludes them from ever being a premiership team but I have seen them play a fair bit this season and most games have been fun and great to watch including the defensive masterclass by both teams at the Mennaye on Saturday.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 12:50
There are minimum standards for both Nat1 and 2. The problem is they haven’t been enforced over the last few years. They are still on the NCA site (orwere when this discussion was hard previously). I believe there is to be a return to regular inspections.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 12:53
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

There are minimum standards for both Nat1 and 2. The problem is they haven’t been enforced over the last few years. They are still on the NCA site (orwere when this discussion was hard previously). I believe there is to be a return to regular inspections.

Standards of rugby or are we back to the BPA pitch again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 15:45
No it was a reply to a question about minimum standards. Personally I have no problem with BPA and think it is a terrific facility except when they took away part of the visitors dressing room to extend the physio room. IMO the pitch is no different to many others and struggles with drainage when wet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 15:50
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

No it was a reply to a question about minimum standards. Personally I have no problem with BPA and think it is a terrific facility except when they took away part of the visitors dressing room to extend the physio room. IMO the pitch is no different to many others and struggles with drainage when wet.

The physio room extension was as a result of an away player horrifically breaking his leg and them not being able to fit the stretcher through the door. Needs must...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 17:08
You mean we have a changing room for visiting teams?

Luxury.

You'll be telling me we give them hot water next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 20:59
Funnily enough not a lot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 23:21
Nat 1 standards went hand in hand with the £75k funding. When that went so did investment in infrastructure.
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fatbear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 07:28
Gosh, rugby in the Championship must be awful to watch.
 
As a follower of a side promoted from N2S to N1 this season I have been disappointed by the lack of ambition shown by most sides visiting Chinnor. Of course some visiting backs have scored some wonderful tries but nearly all sides have monster packs with plan A being to win scrum penalties, kick to the corner and score from rolling mauls. Plan B is to have the big forwards bash through the middle. Occasionally the backs are allowed the ball, but most of the time their role is defensive. Only OEs have played what might be called an expansive game at Kingsey Road ( note : Loughborough are still to visit )
 
The excitement from watching Chinnor this season is that until last weekend's drubbing by Moseley, all matches have been in doubt until the very end, and anyone can beat anyone eg at home Chinnor have beaten Ampthill & Rotherham, drawn with OEs and Rosslyn Park, yet lost to Moseley, Caldy and Bishops Stortford. We also lost at Loughborough. Our backs are good to watch though, if they get to see the ball..........
 
Ampthill would appear to be tailor made for life in the Championship - at least on the pitch !


Edited by fatbear - 13 Mar 2019 at 07:29
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 07:35
Fatbear you must be upset with the two props you have signed for next season and your DORs comments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:23
I think we all want free flowing rugby with the ball along the backs and wingers scoring,but it is league and you have to play to your strengths.Our backs did score at Chinnor on Saturday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:25
Originally posted by fatbear fatbear wrote:

Gosh, rugby in the Championship must be awful to watch.
 
As a follower of a side promoted from N2S to N1 this season I have been disappointed by the lack of ambition shown by most sides visiting Chinnor. Of course some visiting backs have scored some wonderful tries but nearly all sides have monster packs with plan A being to win scrum penalties, kick to the corner and score from rolling mauls. Plan B is to have the big forwards bash through the middle. Occasionally the backs are allowed the ball, but most of the time their role is defensive. Only OEs have played what might be called an expansive game at Kingsey Road ( note : Loughborough are still to visit )
 
The excitement from watching Chinnor this season is that until last weekend's drubbing by Moseley, all matches have been in doubt until the very end, and anyone can beat anyone eg at home Chinnor have beaten Ampthill & Rotherham, drawn with OEs and Rosslyn Park, yet lost to Moseley, Caldy and Bishops Stortford. We also lost at Loughborough. Our backs are good to watch though, if they get to see the ball..........
 
Ampthill would appear to be tailor made for life in the Championship - at least on the pitch !

It seems that this style of rugby, built around huge players, is filtering down through the leagues whilst, ironically, some of the premiership teams are now adopting a running game.

Our DOR seems to have developed an obsession with large props of late in an apparent bid to gain parity, and who can blame him...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:48
The bonus point system does reward enterprising back play, but a safety first mentality stifles it. The scrum penalty system and the rolling maul are two negative factors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:57
[QUOTE=Pappashanga] The bonus point system does reward enterprising back play, but a safety first mentality stifles it. The scrum penalty system and the rolling maul are two negative factors.
[/QUOTE

The rolling maul can produce tries to get you a tbp, which happened this season against Rotherham by my team.]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:57
Defence is king now. We need to play 14, or even 13, a side
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:06
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

The bonus point system does reward enterprising back play, but a safety first mentality stifles it. The scrum penalty system and the rolling maul are two negative factors.

The bonus point system rewards tries of any sort and the easiest way to score them is by getting penalties and 5 metre lineouts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 10:03
[QUOTE=Rob C][QUOTE=fatbear] Gosh, rugby in the Championship must be awful to watch./Unquote

You've obviously not seen a Pirates/Bedford game where both teams first ambition is to play an attractive running game of rugby. Yes both sides can and do kick to the corner if the opportunity arises but it is definitely not plan A as it is in a lot of teams.
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 10:44
Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

[QUOTE=Rob C][QUOTE=fatbear] Gosh, rugby in the Championship must be awful to watch./Unquote

You've obviously not seen a Pirates/Bedford game where both teams first ambition is to play an attractive running game of rugby. Yes both sides can and do kick to the corner if the opportunity arises but it is definitely not plan A as it is in a lot of teams.
 



The 53 - 52 match Cov played against Bedford is an example of two teams wanting to play expansive rugby.  Yes, it's easy to say that defences weren't at the fore that game but the running and passing was sublime from both teams.

Unfortunately that match has proved to be the exception to the rule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 10:45
Dare I suggest it but could ringfencing improve the general quality of the rugby played in the Championship?
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