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Mark W-J View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 15:24
Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by stadium stadium wrote:

Bath seem to be the Club leading the campaign for Ring-fencing.
 
And at the moment, Ealing seem to be the club leading the campaign against it. Ben Ward is on Sky Sports Rugby podcast today speaking against it, and he has been interviewed on the topic by the BBC today as well (broadcast date not set yet).

There was an article in the Telegraph earlier in the week about Pirates 'fighting tooth and nail' against plans for ring-fencing:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 16:14
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Originally posted by gerg_861 gerg_861 wrote:

Originally posted by stadium stadium wrote:

Bath seem to be the Club leading the campaign for Ring-fencing.
 
And at the moment, Ealing seem to be the club leading the campaign against it. Ben Ward is on Sky Sports Rugby podcast today speaking against it, and he has been interviewed on the topic by the BBC today as well (broadcast date not set yet).

There was an article in the Telegraph earlier in the week about Pirates 'fighting tooth and nail' against plans for ring-fencing:
Well done Pirates.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2019 at 17:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2019 at 15:05
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

I suppose Mr Craig wants to protect his toy.

If Bath get relegated he will probably want to have the entire season replayed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 15:25
https://www.nottinghamrugby.co.uk/statement-from-the-chairman#comments

I think our Chairman puts forward a very eloquent view of the current state of the game. Could apply equally to most teams in the Championship.
Forever Green.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 16:08

Steve Lansdown: Ring-fence Premiership for three years, says Bristol Bears owner


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46922849

My gast is, frankly, not flabbered at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 17:41
I am wondering if the presence of Eddie Jones and the England coaches at Ealing this week was meant to send a signal on this topic. He also did an interview for the six nations squad announcement from Vallis Way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boubou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 18:23
Think Lansdown should go and join those jokers in parliament. If he had made a statement like this over the all those years in the championship I might have listened. What an absolute bell.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bristolfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 07:55
Unfortunately, unless the rfu actually start financing the championship properly, ring fencing is looking like the best idea.

Irish are looking very likely to come up again, then next season the relegated side will probably also come back up, and the process will continue.

Ring-fence the championship for a few years whilst increasing funding and then see where everybody is at. Ealing have tried to spend and be competitive and it hasn't worked, I struggle to see if any side can currently compete to get promoted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 08:13
Ring fencing would suit Bristol . Without the extra dosh the relegated Premiership side gets I expect it would find it very difficult to get promoted again. The handout is a form of ring fencing. The remote possibility of promotion is very important to keep clubs’ interest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 11:53
and sure enough the Bristol owner wants the Premiership ring fenced for three years. He would , wouldn't he?It's like those dictators who extend their term of office. See link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46922849
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JamboBris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 13:08
Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.

Edited by JamboBris - 19 Jan 2019 at 13:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 17:54
How about give the parachute payment to the team that wins the Championship?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 18:30
Originally posted by JamboBris JamboBris wrote:

Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.


We don't know but that's the beauty of sport and promotion/relegation we get the chance to find out. If it doesn't work out then another team gets the chance the following year.

A few points. Would you support your view if Bristol were relegated this year and the drawbridge was raised whilst they were out of the top flight?

Secondly what benefit does a team that could potentially lose every game every season bring to a ring fenced Premiership or the wider England set up? Don't you think the top flight clubs would soon decide they don't want these losers and jettison them? That could be your club if you aren't careful.

Thirdly, Do you think Lansdowne supports the same view for his foot ball club?

Lastly would he support the same view if in his business interests he was being kept out of a lucrative market by other businesses so they could make even more money?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 19:29
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by JamboBris JamboBris wrote:

Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.


We don't know but that's the beauty of sport and promotion/relegation we get the chance to find out. If it doesn't work out then another team gets the chance the following year.

A few points. Would you support your view if Bristol were relegated this year and the drawbridge was raised whilst they were out of the top flight?

Secondly what benefit does a team that could potentially lose every game every season bring to a ring fenced Premiership or the wider England set up? Don't you think the top flight clubs would soon decide they don't want these losers and jettison them? That could be your club if you aren't careful.

Thirdly, Do you think Lansdowne supports the same view for his foot ball club?

Lastly would he support the same view if in his business interests he was being kept out of a lucrative market by other businesses so they could make even more money?

Nicely put Richard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bristolfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 19:31
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by JamboBris JamboBris wrote:

Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.


We don't know but that's the beauty of sport and promotion/relegation we get the chance to find out. If it doesn't work out then another team gets the chance the following year.

A few points. Would you support your view if Bristol were relegated this year and the drawbridge was raised whilst they were out of the top flight?

Secondly what benefit does a team that could potentially lose every game every season bring to a ring fenced Premiership or the wider England set up? Don't you think the top flight clubs would soon decide they don't want these losers and jettison them? That could be your club if you aren't careful.

Thirdly, Do you think Lansdowne supports the same view for his foot ball club?

Lastly would he support the same view if in his business interests he was being kept out of a lucrative market by other businesses so they could make even more money?


Firstly, if bristol did go down, the drawbridge wouldn't block us from coming back up. The talk currently is about a 13 team premiership with LI making up the numbers, were we to go down then it wouldn't mean ring fencing would stop us from being a premiership side.

Secondly, that's the exact idea of ring fencing. Currently, Bar this season, relegated sides find themselves cut adrift because they've had to rebuild due to a season in the championship. If ring fencing did happen, no side would be hammered every week because the leagues quality would be too strong.

Thirdly, it won't happen in the football because the football championship is incredibly competitive and every season at least one promoted side stays up, so ring fencing will never happen in football.

No idea what the last point has to do with rugby tbh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JamboBris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 21:16
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by JamboBris JamboBris wrote:

Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.


We don't know but that's the beauty of sport and promotion/relegation we get the chance to find out. If it doesn't work out then another team gets the chance the following year.

A few points. Would you support your view if Bristol were relegated this year and the drawbridge was raised whilst they were out of the top flight?

Secondly what benefit does a team that could potentially lose every game every season bring to a ring fenced Premiership or the wider England set up? Don't you think the top flight clubs would soon decide they don't want these losers and jettison them? That could be your club if you aren't careful.

Thirdly, Do you think Lansdowne supports the same view for his foot ball club?

Lastly would he support the same view if in his business interests he was being kept out of a lucrative market by other businesses so they could make even more money?


My point if you re-read my post was to expand the premiership rather than do away with relegation. The only thing that stopped the championship being a foregone conclusion was the play offs, now they have gone it is just a year of training for the relegated team before they return to the premiership. I personally think a 14 team top tier with relegation and promotion to the championship would be far better. However, Irish aside, who do you bring up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brizzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2019 at 23:50
Originally posted by Bristolfan Bristolfan wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by JamboBris JamboBris wrote:

Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.


We don't know but that's the beauty of sport and promotion/relegation we get the chance to find out. If it doesn't work out then another team gets the chance the following year.

A few points. Would you support your view if Bristol were relegated this year and the drawbridge was raised whilst they were out of the top flight?

Secondly what benefit does a team that could potentially lose every game every season bring to a ring fenced Premiership or the wider England set up? Don't you think the top flight clubs would soon decide they don't want these losers and jettison them? That could be your club if you aren't careful.

Thirdly, Do you think Lansdowne supports the same view for his foot ball club?

Lastly would he support the same view if in his business interests he was being kept out of a lucrative market by other businesses so they could make even more money?


Firstly, if bristol did go down, the drawbridge wouldn't block us from coming back up. The talk currently is about a 13 team premiership with LI making up the numbers, were we to go down then it wouldn't mean ring fencing would stop us from being a premiership side.

Secondly, that's the exact idea of ring fencing. Currently, Bar this season, relegated sides find themselves cut adrift because they've had to rebuild due to a season in the championship. If ring fencing did happen, no side would be hammered every week because the leagues quality would be too strong.

Thirdly, it won't happen in the football because the football championship is incredibly competitive and every season at least one promoted side stays up, so ring fencing will never happen in football.

No idea what the last point has to do with rugby tbh


Beyond contempt and unbelievably self centred.

If you want to know what this could do to rugby I will have a stab now.

I was at St. Peter today to watch one of the 'big games' of the season. Not quite the spectacular that we hoped for, but it was a fiercely contested game of rugby between the sides laying in 3rd and 4th in the division.

So, what's the point? .... There were only about 1,500 people there. Why? well the weather was decent, Jersey are having a cracking season (probably their best ever), Bedford are a great club with wonderful support, so why so few for this game? Very simply, there was nothing at stake. Neither side are at any risk of relegation. Neither side are likely to win the division and even if they did neither side would be promoted. In other words there was nothing to play for.

Now, let's move that into a ring fenced scenario. Not only is there no incentive for any Championship side to finish top of the heap, but there is zero interest for any fan to go to watch dead Premiership rubbers at £40 a pop....... personally, I would rather watch paint dry!!

Edited by Brizzer - 19 Jan 2019 at 23:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hoffee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:02
I don't understand why teams like Bristol and London Irish see it as their god-given right to be in the premiership. Simply put - if you're not good enough to be in the premiership why should you be allowed in it? The current system doesn't work as teams who go up can't compete, so why deny other sides in the division the chance by ring fencing??? Surely the obvious solution is to increase funding of the other 11 teams in the Championship so everyone is on a slightly more level playing field.

The way I see it is a high profile side like Bath or Liecester may not be good for those clubs financially at the moment, but it would do wonders for the sport.

Ring fencing is the solution that requires the least effort and thought, the best short term solution. But I can almost guarantee that an English Premiership without promotion and relegation will become stale after two or three seasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:33
Originally posted by Bristolfan Bristolfan wrote:

Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by JamboBris JamboBris wrote:

Does anyone on here honestly think that there is a team in the league that has a remote chance of topping Falcons, Warriors or Bris over the course of a full league season? I would be in favour of expanding the league personally, all 12 teams in the premiership at present would walk the league if they were relegated next year which does no-one any favours either.


We don't know but that's the beauty of sport and promotion/relegation we get the chance to find out. If it doesn't work out then another team gets the chance the following year.

A few points. Would you support your view if Bristol were relegated this year and the drawbridge was raised whilst they were out of the top flight?

Secondly what benefit does a team that could potentially lose every game every season bring to a ring fenced Premiership or the wider England set up? Don't you think the top flight clubs would soon decide they don't want these losers and jettison them? That could be your club if you aren't careful.

Thirdly, Do you think Lansdowne supports the same view for his foot ball club?

Lastly would he support the same view if in his business interests he was being kept out of a lucrative market by other businesses so they could make even more money?


Firstly, if bristol did go down, the drawbridge wouldn't block us from coming back up. The talk currently is about a 13 team premiership with LI making up the numbers, were we to go down then it wouldn't mean ring fencing would stop us from being a premiership side.

Secondly, that's the exact idea of ring fencing. Currently, Bar this season, relegated sides find themselves cut adrift because they've had to rebuild due to a season in the championship. If ring fencing did happen, no side would be hammered every week because the leagues quality would be too strong.

Thirdly, it won't happen in the football because the football championship is incredibly competitive and every season at least one promoted side stays up, so ring fencing will never happen in football.

No idea what the last point has to do with rugby tbh


I'll take the last point first. It has all to do with rugby because the clubs owners treat the game as a business and want to protect their business interests. It would probably be illegal in other areas of businesses to have a cartel controlling the market and if that happened and the club owners are kept out they would be first on the phone to the lawyers or in court. What makes rugby any different? Why should Lansdown et al be able to protect their investments but Mr Trailfinder, Messrs Doncaster etc have no protection?

As for the rest of your self centered comments you fail to see you have provided the answer to the problem. If the relegated club can bounce back up what do they have to fear by relegation? Nothing except loss of money....see we are back to that word!

Football allows more teams up and down, therefore allowing more chances. If that happened in rugby then it would lessen the worries about the issue.

Expand by all means but this leads to more games and player welfare issues and less money for all...oops the m word again.

I've yet to hear a convincing argument for Ringfencing that is about rugby and not money. Ryan Walkinshaw blew one of those arguments about it being about bringing through young academy players on Twitter a few weeks ago. He was being honest.
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