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Is the North in terminal decline?

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Athman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 May 2019 at 18:51
Just wanted to throw a thought out there. I note next year's National One will have just five northern based teams in it. I also note that since the National Two play offs were introduced the Southern team have won 14 of the 18 matches played. Therefore the imbalance between northern and southern rugby has grow to such an extent that now some sort of intervention is needed to rebalance the playing field. Maybe it is time to consider three leagues (North, South West and South East) supporting National One?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2019 at 18:58
Perhaps 3 leagues (N/SE/SW) supporting the Championship with a season end playoff between the three winners and the Championship team in the relegation spot?
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2019 at 19:33
No things aren’t broke and don’t need fixing. What I find strange is that following relegation clubs tend to drop into a bit of decline. Hull Ionians seem to be the first to buck the trend. When you think of Macclesfield, Wharfedale , Tynedale and then Blaydon who fell straight through to level 5 . Obviously I expect to be shot down with such a view. I often wonder if their is a difference in playing style between North and South in level 4 or could it just be the megabucks paid down south which mean all the good players are drawn southwards
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2019 at 19:34
Is it as simple as N v S, or more a reflection of the financial gravitational pull of London & SE and it’s knock-on effect?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote greenpower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2019 at 20:15
just my view but  take a look at the final tables   in both divisions  the south side finishing  second more often   than not has home advantage  ( should really be neutral)  in the playoff   because  it is a lot harder  in the northern division    where you have 2 or 3 decent teams in the south  there.s at least 10 in the north taking points off each other   fylde for example  had to win 18 games  to finish 6th  and  clifton in the south   only 12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 10:47
A simple way of looking at it is to see if the southern sides are made up of northern lads who have travelled south for work.

If they are then it’s a factor, if they aren’t then it’s not.

I’d suggest that in northern rugby the decline and drop out rates are greater meaning less players.

Is junior rugby more focused on clubs than rugby playing schools in the north? Do these lads have a lesser experience and end up dropping out in greater numbers?

Do the northerners also rely on individual benefactors and when they pull out it all crumbles.

So who’s left up North?

Sale FC, Hull Ionians, Darlington MP?

Where do these clubs get their players from? Do they hoover up all the talent across a vast area
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 11:12
Please don't forget that Rugby Union is not the major rugby sport in Lancashire and Yorkshire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sail By Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 11:22
Would love to check that stat in Yorkshire!
I think that there will be more rugby union players registered in Yorkshire than rugby league.

But what they most definitely do have is competition from league which naturally will dilute the talent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 11:30
Sail By - Just take a quick look at the league structures in Yorkshire for both codes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 11:34
Is rugby league in a similar state or is it thriving? I have no idea about this but do the league players of a similar level receive compensation that matches union or are they amateur? My feeling is that in the south Rugby is generated by the clubs as in most cases the rugby playing schools players cannot play twice at the weekend so they tend to follow a different pathway until Colts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 11:46
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Is rugby league in a similar state or is it thriving? I have no idea about this but do the league players of a similar level receive compensation that matches union or are they amateur? My feeling is that in the south Rugby is generated by the clubs as in most cases the rugby playing schools players cannot play twice at the weekend so they tend to follow a different pathway until Colts
I heard that the Rugby League amateur clubs in the north had approached the RFU earlier in the season about rejoining back into the fold. They are disheartened that the professional RL game is leaving them behind (I'm sure I've heard that somewhere else!!).

Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sail By Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 12:01
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Sail By - Just take a quick look at the league structures in Yorkshire for both codes

I am aware, but I have also seen some data from Sport England. Yorkshire is a massive county in my area York, Selby, Goole, we would be well above league, just like yours.

That is why I think it may be the same after all the numbers were gathered in from Middlesborough, to Scarborough, to Sheffield and then over to Wharefdale. 
If it was Hull, Cas, Leeds, Wakefield (M62) then no doubt they have a stronger presence.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 12:31
89 Amatuer RL clubs in Yorkshire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 13:28
Sport full stop is on the decline, rugby, cricket, even football numbers are falling with teams folding. I know a chap involved with one of the top RL clubs in Wigan & numbers have dropped off a cliff, & that mirrors superleague, where crowds have dwindled substantially. I believe the colts leagues in Lancs are insisting that clubs field only one "joint" colts team from next season, so no more Junior & senior, because of games being cancelled. Not good for clubs that can field both as those 40 boys will be scrapping for 15 shirts & several will give up & be lost to the club & the sport.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Remember Izal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 13:41
I think one of the more interesting points here is that the RFU simply doesn't care. If they did the wouldn't be cutting the travel grants to the clubs in the out posts of Northumberland and Cornwall making it even more difficult/expensive  to compete. There are some really great North clubs and the best will stay at the top of their tree. Their tree is perhaps a little lower than the South tree.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 13:45
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

89 Amatuer RL clubs in Yorkshire.
94 affiliated clubs in the Yorkshire RFU
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 14:28
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

89 Amatuer RL clubs in Yorkshire.
94 affiliated clubs in the Yorkshire RFU
...and once one adds in the 16 Yorkshire Pro & Semi Pro Rugby League clubs  .......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sail By Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 14:30
So similar numbers which will cause players naturally to migrate.
Not like down south where the only option is rugby union.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote L33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 14:53
Originally posted by Remember Izal Remember Izal wrote:

I think one of the more interesting points here is that the RFU simply doesn't care. If they did the wouldn't be cutting the travel grants to the clubs in the out posts of Northumberland and Cornwall making it even more difficult/expensive  to compete. There are some really great North clubs and the best will stay at the top of their tree. Their tree is perhaps a little lower than the South tree.

Why should they pay any travel costs ? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2019 at 16:22
Wharfedale win National Colts Cup and Yorkshire win U20's county championship for the umpteenth time.
All is not lost until their "ball__cks" drop and then it seems to go t its up

Edited by tulip - 07 May 2019 at 16:23
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