National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Leeds Carnegie v London Irish
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Leeds Carnegie v London Irish

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 13>
Poll Question: who is Aviva Premiership bound?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [9.80%]
46 [90.20%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
corporalcarrot View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Location: St Ouen
Status: Offline
Points: 2156
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 08:19
Originally posted by RedOrDead RedOrDead wrote:

It's a truism that the trick to AP survival is to find one team worse than you. On that basis, I'd say that survival is tougher than ever.

All of this assumes that LI get promoted and are no stronger next season. I would imagine that they will try to strengthen, but they will suffer the same way as others before them by being late to the party thanks to the playoffs.
Great summary of the reality in rugby at this time. It seems likely that we will see a yo-yo effect with the team going up suffering the same fate as Briz and re-joining the Championship a year later. Briz are probably the best equipped to break the cycle by having massive fan and financial support which I believe will eventually see them compete at the top end of the prem. It is possible that organisational and management deficiencies may have held them back so far. Irish impress me in the same way as Exeter do by having a wonderful organisation and management team and eventually the move to Brentford will serve them well. There are some great characters working behind the scenes at Irish and it may work out well for them if they yo-yo between the leagues a couple of times until they make a big move to Brentford. I hope it does they are a great club IMO. I hope Leeds do well next week but I see no real sign of the public support in the form of large home crowds, financial backing or organisational excellence which would give them a real chance of staying up if they pull it off.  
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
Back to Top
Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 08:41
Originally posted by corporalcarrot corporalcarrot wrote:

Originally posted by RedOrDead RedOrDead wrote:

It's a truism that the trick to AP survival is to find one team worse than you. On that basis, I'd say that survival is tougher than ever.

All of this assumes that LI get promoted and are no stronger next season. I would imagine that they will try to strengthen, but they will suffer the same way as others before them by being late to the party thanks to the playoffs.
Great summary of the reality in rugby at this time. It seems likely that we will see a yo-yo effect with the team going up suffering the same fate as Briz and re-joining the Championship a year later. Briz are probably the best equipped to break the cycle by having massive fan and financial support which I believe will eventually see them compete at the top end of the prem. It is possible that organisational and management deficiencies may have held them back so far. Irish impress me in the same way as Exeter do by having a wonderful organisation and management team and eventually the move to Brentford will serve them well. There are some great characters working behind the scenes at Irish and it may work out well for them if they yo-yo between the leagues a couple of times until they make a big move to Brentford. I hope it does they are a great club IMO. I hope Leeds do well next week but I see no real sign of the public support in the form of large home crowds, financial backing or organisational excellence which would give them a real chance of staying up if they pull it off.  

The only way is to assemble a Premiership side in the Championship ( as Bristol are attempting to do now) which takes big kahoonas as well as big money and players willing to take a year out of the Premiership and Internationals etc. Harlequins & Northampton both bounced straight up and survived on this basis.


Back to Top
Stoatgobbler View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 280
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoatgobbler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 13:16
Chris Ashton learned his rugby union with Northampton in the Championship.
Back to Top
elmsall man View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elmsall man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 14:32
Stoat gobbler says "Chris Ashton learned his rugby union with Northampton in the Championship."

Not to mention other members of that team such as Carlos Spencer,Tom Smith ,Tiny Tongauiha,Sean Lamont, Bruce Reihana ? and possibly Steve Thompson and Ben Cohen

Harlequins were also star studded when they came down-Will Greenwood,Hugo Monya and  several internationals in the pack whose names I cannot recall

To me both these teams were exceptional and I hate to say it but we have not seen their like since
Back to Top
Stalwart View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Penzance
Status: Offline
Points: 1372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 15:35
Surely this inequity shows why scrapping the play offs was misguided.
Back to Top
Paul Rogan View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad


Joined: 03 May 2011
Location: Rotherham
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Rogan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 16:08
Quins had Andrew Mehrtens at 10 when they were in championship/nat 1....
Back to Top
Cannon View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Location: 20m behind play
Status: Offline
Points: 571
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 16:18
Originally posted by Paul Rogan Paul Rogan wrote:


Quins had Andrew Mehrtens at 10 when they were in championship/nat 1....

WHO?? lol
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
Back to Top
RedOrDead View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 9095
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedOrDead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 16:34
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Surely this inequity shows why scrapping the play offs was misguided.

Surely scrapping the playoffs removes (or at least reduces) the inequality between the promoted side and the other eleven AP sides when it comes to recruiting a squad for the next season.
Back to Top
RedOrDead View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 9095
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedOrDead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 16:50
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

The only way is to assemble a Premiership side in the Championship ( as Bristol are attempting to do now) which takes big kahoonas as well as big money and players willing to take a year out of the Premiership and Internationals etc. Harlequins & Northampton both bounced straight up and survived on this basis.

I've said exactly this many times before. Even if you have longer to assemble a squad, turning it into a team to compete in the AP in the time available is a big ask.

I'm not sure that Harlequins and Northampton's stories are that instructive as time goes by, but more recently (in The Championship era), Newcastle and Worcester have managed it. Obviously it's much easier for a side coming down with an AP squad than a side trying to build one in The Championship.

It's scary how much quality those Northampton and Harlequins sides that come down to the old Division 1 had, was the bottom end of the Premiership that good in those days, or did those sides have terrible seasons in order to get demoted?


Edited by RedOrDead - 19 May 2017 at 16:51
Back to Top
Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 16:53
What is the problem ?

Clubs are happy to invest (or not) and take the associated risks either way.If you don't want to win the raffle don't buy a ticket and vice versa.  The fight to stay up or get up is a spectator dream although it could do with being closer than this year but you do get games that sides have to win for the desired outcome at some stage.

Keep it as it is.
   
Back to Top
Stalwart View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Penzance
Status: Offline
Points: 1372
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 18:32
Originally posted by RedOrDead RedOrDead wrote:

Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Surely this inequity shows why scrapping the play offs was misguided.

Surely scrapping the playoffs removes (or at least reduces) the inequality between the promoted side and the other eleven AP sides when it comes to recruiting a squad for the next season.

Yes, but why should the cards be stacked so much in favour of the relegated premiership team? They have a massive financial advantage over everyone else and the play offs gave other teams at least an outside chance of turning them over. London Irish have a huge squad with a large number of international players already, so it shouldn't be beyond them to make a good fist of the Premiership next season. 
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 1391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 19:08
I thought Bristol retained their Premier League share when they were first relegated, as such they have an advantage other championship sides do not have.

Scrapping the play-offs will only help if the season finishes at the same time as now. If it finishes later it won't make much difference.
RAID ON
Back to Top
Exiled_Scots View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar
London Scottish

Joined: 18 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2316
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exiled_Scots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 19:13
The abandoning of the play offs was for one specific reason. 

When Exeter broke the PRL ring fenced 13 team cartel it mean't that there would be 2 PRL teams outside the top league, which was never the intention of the cartel when it was established. 

The removal of the play offs is just a return to the original cartel structure and Leeds are the team which has now been thrown to the wolves, as in effect they are outside of the cartel.


Watch Out - The Scottish Phoenix Club is on the Up!!

Seven down one to go
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 1391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 19:18
Maybe it would make sense to:

Increase the Premiership to 13 or 14 teams with no relegation.

Permit the Championship champions to challenge the bottom Premiership side to a winner takes all play-off at a neutral ground at the end of a season.

Scrap the useless Anglo-Welsh cup which the majority of the Premiership sides use as a development game.

Consider scrapping the B&I cup

RAID ON
Back to Top
Loo fighters View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 01 May 2013
Location: Crosby
Status: Offline
Points: 1200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2017 at 22:44
It's completely delusional to believe any other team than Bristol will be promoted back to the premiership at the end of next season. The season after that it will be the team relegated from the Prem. The only way to stop that is to give a season's grace to the team promoted. But that will never happen... Turkey's & Christmas!!!
Family-Rugger-Beer-Cricket-Beer-Happy...
Back to Top
Motherrucker1982 View Drop Down
Academy player
Academy player
Avatar

Joined: 17 Apr 2016
Location: Berkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Motherrucker1982 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 08:29
As has been well discussed amongst us Bristol fans we failed this season for a number of reasons. The other teams cited (Saints/Quins and even Wuss and Falcons to some extent) did what we failed to do 8 years ago and that is bounce straight back up. Spending longer than 1 year in the Championship really does harm your Premiership aspirations. Best players will move on and you either have to pay mega bucks for some ageing ex-international looking for a final pay day or pluck someone from obscurity to stand any chance of competing. As someone rightly stated we suffered as a result of really poor organisation and management. When we finally scloquat our way up, we made a right royal horlicks of it as we did not appreciate that the premiership has leapt forward in our absence.
I genuinely feel that Irish will have a much better chance of remaining should they go back up and it'll be interesting to see who comes down next year as there are at least 4-5 teams of the same standard and no obvious weak link.
If Leedshire do the impossible, I feel they'll suffer a fate worst than us as the intensity of the Premiership is consistent and relentless - they may manage to be competitive for a few games (like we were) but over a season would come unstuck. Not being harsh but, in the cold light of day, as a result of the rubbish structure and massive disparity in funding, the Championship clubs (and I include Bristol in this at present) are not given the opportunity to make a fist of it.
We're trying another 'different' approach which only time will tell whether it's successful or not (we've tried the 'Harlem Globetrotter' approach before and balls it up) but are only able to due to a significantly wealthy benefactor. It continues to sadden me that our sport can't run 2 professional leagues whereas Football in England can run 4 (2 of which have serious money in)....
Back to Top
Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 624
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 09:17
I think you'll find football runs many more professional leagues than 4 and many more semi professional leagues on top of that. The fact that they have sponsored leagues on so many levels amazes me. Teams that you'll never hear of ( unless they have an FA Cup run, like the brilliant BBC behind the scenes documentary on the club that the Neville bros and Giggs run ) constitute the entire leagues yet sponsorship has been found. God knows what the companies involved get out of it.
If its match tickets it would be cheaper to get a corporate box or just the tickets themselves.
Back to Top
Donnyknightsfan View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Location: Doncaster
Status: Offline
Points: 670
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donnyknightsfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 13:43
Originally posted by Motherrucker1982 Motherrucker1982 wrote:

As has been well discussed amongst us Bristol fans we failed this season for a number of reasons. The other teams cited (Saints/Quins and even Wuss and Falcons to some extent) did what we failed to do 8 years ago and that is bounce straight back up. Spending longer than 1 year in the Championship really does harm your Premiership aspirations. Best players will move on and you either have to pay mega bucks for some ageing ex-international looking for a final pay day or pluck someone from obscurity to stand any chance of competing. As someone rightly stated we suffered as a result of really poor organisation and management. When we finally scloquat our way up, we made a right royal horlicks of it as we did not appreciate that the premiership has leapt forward in our absence.
I genuinely feel that Irish will have a much better chance of remaining should they go back up and it'll be interesting to see who comes down next year as there are at least 4-5 teams of the same standard and no obvious weak link.
If Leedshire do the impossible, I feel they'll suffer a fate worst than us as the intensity of the Premiership is consistent and relentless - they may manage to be competitive for a few games (like we were) but over a season would come unstuck. Not being harsh but, in the cold light of day, as a result of the rubbish structure and massive disparity in funding, the Championship clubs (and I include Bristol in this at present) are not given the opportunity to make a fist of it.
We're trying another 'different' approach which only time will tell whether it's successful or not (we've tried the 'Harlem Globetrotter' approach before and balls it up) but are only able to due to a significantly wealthy benefactor. It continues to sadden me that our sport can't run 2 professional leagues whereas Football in England can run 4 (2 of which have serious money in)....


To be honest you can't disagree with anything that has been said here. I think Briz will eventually make the breakthrough in the Prem and will get established as a 7th, 8th placed team each year. Its sad that the 2nd placed Championship team doesn't have a promotion play-off with the 11th placed AP team to keep the season alive for Championship Clubs. Next season Briz will be over the horizon by Christmas and the rest of the teams will be playing for mediocre increases in funding. Also without being offensive to Bristol they're not one of the traditional AP superpowers that will be the Championship teams' match of the season when they play them, like Quins and Saints were. As for relegation next year lets get Gloucester down into this league!!.
Back to Top
tigerburnie View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 16:05
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Maybe it would make sense to:


Scrap the useless Anglo-Welsh cup which the majority of the Premiership sides use as a development game.


It is a development tournament, that's the point of it, to be played during the Autumn internationals and 6 nations.
Back to Top
WillEvans View Drop Down
Mini and Juniors
Mini and Juniors


Joined: 27 Sep 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WillEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 23:58
Originally posted by elmsall man elmsall man wrote:

Stoat gobbler says "Chris Ashton learned his rugby union with Northampton in the Championship."

Not to mention other members of that team such as Carlos Spencer,Tom Smith ,Tiny Tongauiha,Sean Lamont, Bruce Reihana ? and possibly Steve Thompson and Ben Cohen

Harlequins were also star studded when they came down-Will Greenwood,Hugo Monya and  several internationals in the pack whose names I cannot recall

To me both these teams were exceptional and I hate to say it but we have not seen their like since

That Hugo Monya was some player wasn't he?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 678910 13>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.