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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GreenThrough&Through Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 11:53
A similar scenario happened in National 1 back in 2016. Plymouth, having invested significantly in the playing squad, went into administration once they had sufficient points to stay up, taking into account the automatic points deduction they received.

Whilst we at Wharfedale ultimately weren't good enough to stay up on merit, it still left a bitter taste with many that a club run in a financially sound manner had to face relegation whilst a club that spent money they didn't have were allowed to remain where they were.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 11:54
I remember that. How many points were deducted?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 12:41
I looked it up. 30 points. That would send Leeds into N1, either this season or next.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 12:47
The explanation of all the hoops a potentially insolvent club has to go through are interesting(apologies if someone else has already posted this)
https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/32/72/10/RFURegulation5Appendix2_English.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 17:17
Not much good news at the moment, even The Cricketers is up for sale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 21:56
Can we keep on topic please.  The last Leeds thread went off topic, can we try to stick to one thing at a time. If you want to discuss your favourite grounds please start a new thread. Thank you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote God Bless The Apple Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 07:33
I'd have a shifty bet that Leeds will wait until after July 31st to announce CVA accept the points deduction....... and funding from the RFU for Champ clubs..... and stay in the Championship next season with a severely weakened side.

What a joy. Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Member728 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 07:44

Fixtures, Results, Tables

Blackheath0 - 0Richmond
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 1Richmond000
83 Consecutive League Wins
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 07:55
The plan to enter into a CVA has already been announced but with no indication as to when the vote of the creditors will take place. It has been suggested that a CVA, unlike administration, may not involve a points deduction.

In the absence of any further information from the club we can only speculate as to why they seem so determined to fight to the bitter end given the uncertainty it is creating for Richmond and others.

Money may be part of it; although the payment to the landlords has been much reduced I'm sure the Rhinos would rather have £100k than nothing. There was also a suggestion from Rob Vickerman on the podcast which some may have heard that there may be no relegation from the Championship at the end of next season. I haven't seen this confirmed anywhere but, if true, it would provide an extra incentive to crawl over the line.

For everyone's sake I wish the board would at least lay out a timetable for the actions already announced.
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 08:28
It’s hard to believe that they would be able to field any kind of viable team. The constant news is of their players joining other clubs . The RFU needs to step in now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fenboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 08:45
"Money may be part of it; although the payment to the landlords has been much reduced I'm sure the Rhinos would rather have £100k than nothing" - and there lies the rub. At least this gives the stadium owners an income stream and allows them to keep Headingley operational over the winter. £100K IS an absolute bargain for stadium, training facilities, back office etc......but It's all dead money. 

Maybe if the landlaords had treated their tenants with a little more respect instead of looking at them as a cash cow they wouldn't be in the hole they are in now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnIdiotAbroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 08:58
Speculation re the motive for the CVA is, as you say Albert, impossible to fully understand at this moment in time. Clearly though it is to reduce the size of the debt and a failure to reach agreement will have a significant impact on creditors.  I doubt if the impact on other clubs and leagues is being considered - not a criticism but the reality of a survival scenario. My limited knowledge of the CVA process is by the time it is announced that a CVA is a pathway a business is following a significant amount of work, discussion, planning and advice has been done/taken on board. A point in case is a well known retail group has just announced fundamental changes to their business structure from a CVA (and there are different types of CVA including a 'packaged' solution)  that has resulted in store closures, reduced rents/rates etc. That process has been happening below the radar for some months but away from the general media including professional advice (allegedly and without prejudice) from insolvency practitioners. Bearing this in mind it is a reasonable assumption that YC have plans in place for the various outcomes and those I appreciate cannot be disclosed.
As others have said, the probability of assembling a squad after a potential decision to carry on with RFU approval will be nigh on impossible. Recruitment is all but complete for the Champ and National league clubs. I do not know if the recruitment of a competitive squad has any bearing on the continuation of a club in this situation - does anyone know the answer to that?      
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:00
Originally posted by AnIdiotAbroad AnIdiotAbroad wrote:

I do not know if the recruitment of a competitive squad has any bearing on the continuation of a club in this situation - does anyone know the answer to that?      
 

No idea - other clubs, not least Mose when the wheels came off in the early 2000s, have offloaded their first team and completed the season with the seconds/amateurs, which enabled a "graceful" decline a level or two rather than handing their cards in. Manchester and Newbury took a lot further to fall before the rot stopped than Mose - who arrested it in tier 3. 

I'm not sure anyone has ever stood at the starting line of a whole season and tried to do it though, and I'm uncomfortable about whether it ought to be allowed - particularly given the gulf in fitness and ability these days. Best part of 20 years ago, we turned up and tried to avoid a weekly hammering. Now it could be actively dangerous.
keep the faith
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fenboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:13
What's the situation with the mid-season imports? If YC are running next season surely they are on contract.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:39
They will still be contracted, but I presume the CVA will try to reach a compromise with them . . . if they did stay which I cant see, can you imagine their motivation levels?   

Maybe YC will employ the Rhinos squad!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:44
The key to any kind of continuation is payment in full of ‘rugby debts’ . These are defined.There also has to be a three year business plan and scrutiny of management accounts. Also talk of a financial bond.
Even if all that is dealt with where are the players coming from? Who would join a club which appears unable to pay wages? The exit from Leeds is a procession as can be seen from the Signing and Departures thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:23
They have already said that the only full-time employee will be a head coach. For players they will presumably have a base of academy players and Leeds Beckett students and such money as there is may be enough to tempt some more seasoned local players.

I know many on here don't like Headingley as a spectating venue but the players' facilities are brand new and the surface is now very good (just relaid). The Kirkstall training facilities are also very good and pretty new, having had to be replaced after the 2015 floods.
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:36
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

They will still be contracted, but I presume the CVA will try to reach a compromise with them . . . if they did stay which I cant see, can you imagine their motivation levels?   

Maybe YC will employ the Rhinos squad!!!
I would have thought that contracted players, by definition employed, would have the kindest ‘cut’ imposed by a CVA. Whether they accept or challenge is another thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:54
This whole debacle is a disgrace and a colossal failure in governance by the RFU. It will continue to happen because the RFU has no interest whatsoever in the game below the elite and has mortgaged its soul to the Professional game. The RFU and some clubs seem to have lost the essence of what club rugby should be all about.

My club Caldy was relegated from National 1 with 62 points, the highest total ever for a club to be relegated from National 1. Caldy almost certainly had the smallest budget in National 1 but without resorting to loans and DRs Caldy was able to lead the National 1 table for 4 or 5 weeks until injuries struck and the performance dipped. 

A tremendous run in the last few games saw Caldy almost survive and with 3 minutes to go away at Moseley it was Moseley for the drop not Caldy. However it wasn't to be and Caldy drop back down to National 2. There was no sadness at Caldy, just pride and admiration for what a small club had achieved with its own players and the delight at renewing rivalries with some great northern clubs next season.

I cannot think of anything worse than using contrived legal devices to attempt to stay at a level that a club cannot sustain like Leeds appears to be doing. Where is the pride, joy and community in such a position?
''The future isn't what it used to be''
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:00
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:


A tremendous run in the last few games saw Caldy almost survive and with 3 minutes to go away at Moseley it was Moseley for the drop not Caldy. 
 

No it wasn't - we needed one point of any sort to ensure survival. At 10-5 with three mins to go we had an LBP so whoever was going down, it wasn't us. That we won 12-10 condemned Caldy, but we didn't need to win to stay up.

The rest of the post I agree with entirely. Will you be coming down for the PSF in August?


Edited by billesleyexile - 14 Jun 2019 at 12:02
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