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corporalcarrot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:01
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

This whole debacle is a disgrace and a colossal failure in governance by the RFU.
This says it all really but I still hope YC manage the decline even if they slip down a level or two over the next few seasons.  
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hrplaneman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:04
This is an interesting link from Yorkshire Rugby. Its not affiliated, as far as I know, to any particular rugby club in the county, but it does show an insightful glimpse of where Leeds thought they were going.

They certainly seem to be over egging certain elements of the pudding, particularly when referring to matter such as "their" Academy. They have quoted figures of involved players from less that 100 in previous seasons to more than 800 currently. All of course directly attributable to Yorkshire RFU passing over full responsibility of player development to Leeds with a detrimental effect on player numbers at all clubs throughout the county.A matter for which the Yorkshire RFU CB should be held accountable for, but of course with its heavy hitters within the RFU this will not be allowed to even be considered.
 So do we assume from the point of view of some that we will continue to see Leeds present in the Championship, using younger, inexperienced players against fully developed professional/semi-professionals? 
With the current discussions occurring via World Rugby on matters of the breakdown and in particular protecting players in Jackal breakdowns, will we see a further increase of players leaving the game because it is becoming more elitist at the top end to the detriment of the lower levels, hence the GAMEON initiative launched by the RFU this week, specifically aimed at the so called lower levels of the game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B-5IpSNLcs

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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:11
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:


A tremendous run in the last few games saw Caldy almost survive and with 3 minutes to go away at Moseley it was Moseley for the drop not Caldy. 
 

No it wasn't - we needed one point of any sort to ensure survival. At 10-5 with three mins to go we had an LBP so whoever was going down, it wasn't us. That we won 12-10 condemned Caldy, but we didn't need to win to stay up.

The rest of the post I agree with entirely. Will you be coming down for the PSF in August?

You are right to correct me Billesleyexile with 3 minutes to go it was Cambridge that were down. It was a nail biter all around with the final relegation spot not determined until the final whistle. However despite our defeat I very much enjoyed our visit to Billesley Common and the very impressive facilities. 

For me it reinforced my pride in how far such a small club playing on an open field and with a wooden shack for a clubhouse have come.

I have been away from rugby since the end of the season and I wasn't aware of Caldy's PSF programme but subject to Mrs Bolognese's permission I will be attending
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:23
To bring this back to Leeds, my view is that the lack of clarity from the club and the RFU is putting the game in peril. Personally I have absolutely no interest in ever watching a bunch of for hire rugby players. I want to see two clubs with home grown/local players competing against each other for the pride of their community.

This aspect which once was so important to club rugby is being torn asunder by DR/Loan players and the financial connivance to suit the professional game. The Leeds debacle is another manifestation of this where the lack of governance by Leeds and the RFU is jeopardising the integrity of the Championship and National 1.

Why is it being allowed to continue in this way ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WorldWideWebbEllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:34
I suspect Richmond would echo a lot of what you say, Big Eddie. Their situation was quite similar as I understand it. 

I think the key point is that clubs that try to manipulate the rugby to make the money work are always in a worse place than those who try to manipulate the money to make the rugby work, if you see what I mean.

If money is the core of what you do as a club, that is what comes to define the club. It's easy to tell the difference between a XV that represents a business model and a XV that represents a club spirit. 

I read something somewhere - The Times I think - an opinion that the Championship is full of "teams", but not many "clubs". I suspect that is true, but whether or not it is true, the RFU should ask what it wants the Champ to be for.

If it wants to use it as a feeder league for the Premiership and thus for England, it ought to be set up as a franchise system where each Premiership side is mirrored by/ partnered with a Championship "team" where a majority of EQPs, especially young ones, are mixed with more experienced non-EQPs who guaranteed a level of quality that made it an improving environment for the Prem/England set-ups to bring promising players on at the right pace.

But if the RFU wants the Championship to be the tip of the "grass roots", i.e. the best that club rugby can be, operating in a sustainable manner where "clubs" compete and crucially operate as "clubs", in order to foster and replicate the values of the game among players from 6 to 60, of both sexes and all standards, then that league needs to be different. It needs to be composed of financially sustainable clubs that embody "community rugby" - a much abused phrase which ought to just mean playing for the sake of the players and the members/supporters. Thus, it should be funded centrally only as far as it allows non-professional ("semi-professional" is such as sham phrase) clubs to operate in such a way that those clubs can provide the highest possible support to all players in terms of medical, training, coaching at all levels. Professional amateurism, if you like.

Now, it seems that the RFU is not willing or able to subsidise anything beyond that anyway - the bulk of the £550K that comes from Twickenham is ringfenced for eg insurance, medical support, the employment of certain designated officials etc, so that is NOT what pays for professional players.

So the choice is simple: clubs or teams. Should the Championship be all clubs on a Caldy model, or all teams on a different model (e.g. Carnegie)? The current Championship is more like the latter and I doubt it pleases anyone, not least because the EQP and dual-registration system are clearly both not quite working as intended (viz. Hartpury in the case of DR). A number of other clubs than Carnegie have come close to the hairy edge recently, some in public (Jersey) and some not. But you'll look long and hard for a really profitable business in next season's Championship (apologies to Blues fans, but if you check the accounts on Companies House, and you can read a balance sheet and know where to look in the notes, you will know what I mean by "really").

In the end, everyone agrees what we have isn't what we need. Given that there are signs of England and the RFU losing the plot financially at the highest level, it is even more imperative to get things right at Tier 2. So make up your flaming minds, RFU: go full "teams", fund it correctly, sort out a mirroring system with rigid and severe EQP/DR rules; or go full "clubs", fund it for professional amateurism and let the clubs who can create sustainable, community-based business models be the ones to create the best teams within themselves. (and I think the RFU should also make a greater contribution to clubs coming from less populous and less rugby-union-strong areas, but that's an argument for another day).

Rant over.

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Paul Rossborough View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Rossborough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:51
Originally posted by fenboy fenboy wrote:

What's the situation with the mid-season imports? If YC are running next season surely they are on contract.


Not sure it's relevant. They've all signed for Cornish Pirates!!!
All views expressed are my own
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 13:15
Originally posted by Paul Rossborough Paul Rossborough wrote:

Originally posted by fenboy fenboy wrote:

What's the situation with the mid-season imports? If YC are running next season surely they are on contract.


Not sure it's relevant. They've all signed for Cornish Pirates!!!
 

Apart from those who have refused the offers and are still allegedly on their full wages and packages was the number 3 players or more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 13:21
If they are owed money they have a vote in the CVA - even if they have signed to play elsewhere.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 13:31
rugby players have to be paid in full. The insolvency practitioners also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Runitback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 14:03
Insolvency practitioners always get paid!!!!! Strangely
Run with it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 15:27
Rugby has completely lost its way and any sense of value that it had. The RFU are mean't to be providing for the game as a whole not just for the elite (and they are not even doing that). The game as we knew it died some years ago and unless some drastic corrective action is taken very rapidly it may well cease to exist in a few years. Not because of financial pressures but rather because those passionate volunteers who give to and care for the game, vastly more than the RFU does , lose heart and interest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 22:18
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Rugby has completely lost its way and any sense of value that it had. The RFU are mean't to be providing for the game as a whole not just for the elite (and they are not even doing that). The game as we knew it died some years ago and unless some drastic corrective action is taken very rapidly it may well cease to exist in a few years. Not because of financial pressures but rather because those passionate volunteers who give to and care for the game, vastly more than the RFU does , lose heart and interest.

I, for one, will not lose heart or interest. I started supporting the Pirates aged about 6, now 68. If we end up once again as an amateur club in the Devon and Cornwall league (where we started) I'll still be there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 23:23
Hear Hear
I renewed my season ticket for Cambridge before we went to Sale. 
As everyone knows for 75+ minutes that day we were down.
The relief was palpable.
But had the worst happen I would still have been back.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 00:54
I am not suggesting club supporters and volunteers will lose heart or interest because of the fate of their own club, but rather because the integrity of the game itself erodes to a point of no return
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 08:58
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Hear Hear
I renewed my season ticket for Cambridge before we went to Sale. 
As everyone knows for 75+ minutes that day we were down.
The relief was palpable.
But had the worst happen I would still have been back.



Hear, hear.
(I was just pleased to find someone who knew how to spell 'hear, hear' for a change).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 09:32
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

I am not suggesting club supporters and volunteers will lose heart or interest because of the fate of their own club, but rather because the integrity of the game itself erodes to a point of no return
I also support Pirates Amateurs who, as the name suggests, do not pay anyone - it's written into their constitution. The team is made up of local boys, most coming from The Pirates junior and colts sections. I can't see that ever losing its integrity. It is a struggle at times, but the club is run by people who love rugby (many are former players) and love their club and it is flourishing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 10:05
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

I am not suggesting club supporters and volunteers will lose heart or interest because of the fate of their own club, but rather because the integrity of the game itself erodes to a point of no return
I also support Pirates Amateurs who, as the name suggests, do not pay anyone - it's written into their constitution. The team is made up of local boys, most coming from The Pirates junior and colts sections. I can't see that ever losing its integrity. It is a struggle at times, but the club is run by people who love rugby (many are former players) and love their club and it is flourishing. 

Posts like yours Stalwart make me more optimistic.............perhaps rugby may just hold onto its soul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote covmick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 12:18
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Rugby has completely lost its way and any sense of value that it had. The RFU are mean't to be providing for the game as a whole not just for the elite (and they are not even doing that). The game as we knew it died some years ago and unless some drastic corrective action is taken very rapidly it may well cease to exist in a few years. Not because of financial pressures but rather because those passionate volunteers who give to and care for the game, vastly more than the RFU does , lose heart and interest.

I, for one, will not lose heart or interest. I started supporting the Pirates aged about 6, now 68. If we end up once again as an amateur club in the Devon and Cornwall league (where we started) I'll still be there.


So speaks a true Rugby man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 10:01
Originally posted by Albert Fishwick Albert Fishwick wrote:

They have already said that the only full-time employee will be a head coach. For players they will presumably have a base of academy players and Leeds Beckett students and such money as there is may be enough to tempt some more seasoned local players.

I know many on here don't like Headingley as a spectating venue but the players' facilities are brand new and the surface is now very good (just relaid). The Kirkstall training facilities are also very good and pretty new, having had to be replaced after the 2015 floods.


It didn't look that good in the Rhinos game this week. Bare patches and loose soil down the wings - probably a result of the recent construction works
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 11:12
The academy players were running out for Huddersfield, Hull Ionians, Otley or Wharfedale last season. 
I do not know how many have been snapped up by those clubs.
But even if Leeds can keep them, it is a step up and there are not a lot of old hands to guide them.


Leeds Academy

Player played for
Billy Addy
Steele Barker
Tor Borrowdale Huddersfield
Adam Brown Hull Ionians
Harry Butler
Ben Carlile Hull Ionians
Joe Carpenter
Harry Carter
Jack Cherry
Luke Fairbank
Joe Gatus Otley
Joe Green Huddersfield
Connor HanHuckleberry
Angus Haswell
Maddison Hunting
Sam Ives
Chris Jackson Hull Ionians
Dan Lancaster Hull Ionians
Oren Loftus
James Malcolmson
Tom Mann Wharfedale
Lawrence Mason
Harry Matthews
Ben McNamara
Jack Metcalf
Will Pritchard
Archie Smeaton
Theo Smerdon
Will Smith
Tom Stephenson Hull Ionians
Kian Stewart Huddersfield
Ben Sugars Otley
Ben Taylor
Ted Wainwright
Ollie Williams
Kieran Wilyman Otley

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