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Level 3 & Below. New League Stucture.

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HandsintheRuck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HandsintheRuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Level 3 & Below. New League Stucture.
    Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 18:04
Was wondering what you all thought of this ?

The RFU has produced a recommendation paper on the future structure of the adult male competitions (English Club Championship Level 3 and below)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 19:05
Go to the RFU Coronavirus page, there is a Survey for anyone to complete. It is freeform rather than set questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2020 at 23:34
Nice to think that they are offering level 6 upwards a chance to go to Twickenham with these cup competitions again. (That is, if the finals are to be held there!)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mountain Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 08:30
Originally posted by HandsintheRuck HandsintheRuck wrote:

Was wondering what you all thought of this ?

The RFU has produced a recommendation paper on the future structure of the adult male competitions (English Club Championship Level 3 and below)


It's watering down and weakening what at Nat 1 and Nat 2 has been a fantastic standard over the recent years. There will be 10 new teams at level 4 - 2 of whom will drop down from L3 and 8 more who haven't managed to gain a place at that level through promotion. Lower down the soon to be flat pyramid they are proposing 12 team leagues - perhaps they will explain to the club treasurers how they are going to balance the books based on 11 home 1st XV games. Cups and friendlies are not the answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 08:37
Levels 3 and 4 don’t get a Cup competition. Clubs and players at those levels rejected that idea. It seems that players at lower levels wanted Cup competitions, although the number of WO results tends to suggest they only want Cup matches they can win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Golden Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 11:07
Agree...over the last few seasons we have seen 2 of the promoted teams into N2S go straight back down... Inviting more sides up may see a reduction in travel bills but a definate watering down of the standard.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 13:31
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Levels 3 and 4 don’t get a Cup competition. Clubs and players at those levels rejected that idea. It seems that players at lower levels wanted Cup competitions, although the number of WO results tends to suggest they only want Cup matches they can win.


Or cup matches when drawn at home?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 13:33
Originally posted by Golden Jackal Golden Jackal wrote:

Agree...over the last few seasons we have seen 2 of the promoted teams into N2S go straight back down... Inviting more sides up may see a reduction in travel bills but a definate watering down of the standard.  


Quite agree - a sure case of 'if it ain't broken don't fix it'.

Whilst, it may be good to travel less, I would have thought the standard of rugby was what really mattered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 15:43
But again it is very rare that all three teams coming into Nat 1 survive so I don’t see any change except 3 teams going down from 14 is pretty tough especially if it is still to be 1 up as the report didn’t mention L2.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2020 at 17:53
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

But again it is very rare that all three teams coming into Nat 1 survive so I don’t see any change except 3 teams going down from 14 is pretty tough especially if it is still to be 1 up as the report didn’t mention L2.


It wouldn't make sense to have 3 x level 4 leagues and only relegate2 from N1 - so I would assume it will be 3 down out of 14 teams.

Conversely it may only be 2 down from each level 4 league as they will all have 2 level 5 leagues beneath them, thus doing away with 2nd place play-offs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 11:20
Just sent in my 2,000 word comments - I struggled to give them a gamma. They did at least spell their name correctly and did not blot their copybook. But that is about all.

I do think it takes a special someone to set out to reduce the number of games and the distance traveled and on the fourth attempt to have once again increased both for all but 48 teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kempstonblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 11:40
Originally posted by Mountain Man Mountain Man wrote:

Originally posted by HandsintheRuck HandsintheRuck wrote:

Was wondering what you all thought of this ?

The RFU has produced a recommendation paper on the future structure of the adult male competitions (English Club Championship Level 3 and below)


It's watering down and weakening what at Nat 1 and Nat 2 has been a fantastic standard over the recent years. There will be 10 new teams at level 4 - 2 of whom will drop down from L3 and 8 more who haven't managed to gain a place at that level through promotion. Lower down the soon to be flat pyramid they are proposing 12 team leagues - perhaps they will explain to the club treasurers how they are going to balance the books based on 11 home 1st XV games. Cups and friendlies are not the answer.

Based on the 3 leagues 16 clubs (48)
To 4 leagues 14 clubs (56) requires promoting 8 clubs.

However hasn’t it been recommended increasing Championship 16 clubs two conferences, so that adds 12 clubs. (10 if it was a 14 team league).

So National 1 stays a nationwide competition with travel, whilst Championship is a semi national system?
Maybe Championship could stay fully National (16 clubs 8 extra games but drop the Championship Cup?, or 14 clubs]

A 16 team conference system offers 14 + 8 matches. Would splitting both Championship and 1 be preferable to both leagues offering more regional games?
Old enough to know better...just wish I knew what
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 12:27
ok interesting just been told how the 3 new national 2 Leagues will work geographically and frankly some may call it a "Dogs-dinner"  but I'll go with a "Pie & Mash-up".

Find Melton Mowbray on a Map.

Draw a line eastwards from MM so that it intersects with the River Ouse at Kings Lynn. Then draw a line North West from MM to the River Mersey near Frodsham. Finally head South West with a line going to the River Tamar at Saltash, gives you a Y shape. Top bit Nat 2 North, bit to the left Nat 2 SW/Mids bit to the right Nat 2 Mids/SE, think it makes travel worse for several Clubs!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 12:56
Originally posted by kempstonblue kempstonblue wrote:

Originally posted by Mountain Man Mountain Man wrote:

Originally posted by HandsintheRuck HandsintheRuck wrote:

Was wondering what you all thought of this ?

The RFU has produced a recommendation paper on the future structure of the adult male competitions (English Club Championship Level 3 and below)



It's watering down and weakening what at Nat 1 and Nat 2 has been a fantastic standard over the recent years. There will be 10 new teams at level 4 - 2 of whom will drop down from L3 and 8 more who haven't managed to gain a place at that level through promotion. Lower down the soon to be flat pyramid they are proposing 12 team leagues - perhaps they will explain to the club treasurers how they are going to balance the books based on 11 home 1st XV games. Cups and friendlies are not the answer.


Based on the 3 leagues 16 clubs (48)
To 4 leagues 14 clubs (56) requires promoting 8 clubs.

However hasn’t it been recommended increasing Championship 16 clubs two conferences, so that adds 12 clubs. (10 if it was a 14 team league).

So National 1 stays a nationwide competition with travel, whilst Championship is a semi national system?
Maybe Championship could stay fully National (16 clubs 8 extra games but drop the Championship Cup?, or 14 clubs]

A 16 team conference system offers 14 + 8 matches. Would splitting both Championship and 1 be preferable to both leagues offering more regional games?


If you are correct and the championship is two conferences of 8 - will this be split geographically or by trying to get to equal conferences?

If N1 remains national that makes no sense with the other changes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 15:44
One problem is that the Adult Competition Review only looks at Level 3 downwards. Quite frankly, until the Championship structure is sorted out, we won't know the number of teams being promoted to National 2. 

I did suggest an alternative way of structuring National 2 based on traffic corridors - M1, M5 and M62. That isn't enormously different from the Approach outlined above, however, my scouts tell me that has yet to be agreed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 18:26
Your Scouts are correct but the word on the street its being approved tomorrow (Tuesday) so unless someone comes up with a completely different plan I guess it will be rolled out as is. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2020 at 19:43
Piffpaff, are you referring to the Championship or the whole kit and caboodle?
I thought we had until October to comment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Sley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 05:40
Is there any word on what happens if this season isn't completed (or even started)? 
Does everything get put back 12 months?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 07:08
There are 3 structures to the season. 30 matches if we start 1st Sep or 1st Oct, now not possible, 22 matches if we start November/ December based on 1 match against everyone then top 8 and bottom 8 playing home and away. The third option is starting January and playing 15 matches, 1 against everyone. The NCA have just consulted on promotion options. Are clubs happy to be promoted based on just the 15, would they prefer to add the 15 to the 19/20 results or would they prefer to add the 15 to 21/22 results, the latter meaning the restructure would be postponed to next year. In TRP Canterbury threw their toys out of the prom and said they wanted 14 games, home and away in a regional group covering Levels 3 and 4. That hasn’t been on the table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2020 at 08:52
If you combine the short season with last season, how do you count Leeds, assuming they can raise a team?
Do they bring no wins or do you give them some credit for playing tougher opponents? 
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