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N3 LSE Prediction League Week 5

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Cannon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 13:08
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

[QUOTE=FEZ ANT PLUCKER]
Can a club refuse a level transfer for any reason ?

Yes, they can appeal. The only club I know that where successful was Effingham & Leaterhead when their clubhouse had just burnt down a number of years ago
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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FEZ ANT PLUCKER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 13:19
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

[QUOTE=FEZ ANT PLUCKER]
Can a club refuse a level transfer for any reason ?

Yes, they can appeal. The only club I know that where successful was Effingham & Leaterhead when their clubhouse had just burnt down a number of years ago

Seems to be a common theme in Surrey. I wonder if SURPOL considered TIC's when they arrested the culprit arsonist for the Old Reigations clubhouse fire. Hmmmm I doubt it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 13:54

An appeal system suggests that the appeal can be overuled and enforced.
The fact that a club is appealing tells you enough to know they don't want to go to another league. 
Putting a club where they patently don't want to go, could be a disaster for the club in terms of revenue and player retention & recruitment if they get smashed every week in the new league.
Does the RFU make it worth their while if a club transfers against their will ?
It seems a crazy situation to be in or has every club agreed to the T&C small print as a condition of being in the leagues ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arch Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:14
Tows have (temporarily) lost all of their pretty decent front row from last season, so have no platform for type of rugby they play. This would have applied equally if they were still in the Midlands league, where last year they finished only 6 points off the 3rd relegation spot (where Bach were saved by London Welsh). However like almost all other EM clubs they do not pay any players which is not my experience of L&SE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arch Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:20
Carlos, no Saints do not support any local clubs in any way, despite most giving up their best Juniors for them to "develop" and rarely return. Also as a side issue they also sweep up lots of potential club sponsors as have a strong commericial team with a convincing marketing offer.
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Cannon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:23
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:


An appeal system suggests that the appeal can be overuled and enforced.
The fact that a club is appealing tells you enough to know they don't want to go to another league. 
Putting a club where they patently don't want to go, could be a disaster<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> for the club in terms of revenue and player retention & recruitment if they get smashed every week in the new league.</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Does the RFU make it worth their while if a club transfers against their will ?</span>
<span style="line-height: 1.4;">It seems a crazy situation to be in or has every club agreed to the T&C small print as a condition of being in the leagues ? </span>

They are compensated for mileage as per the RFU recommended amount - this should cover bus costs. Don't forget this compensation is not meant to be a profit maker, but contribute towards your additional out of pocket expenses. Clubs have a cost to travel anyway even if they don't have a level transfer.
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:40
So there is no benefit whatsoever to a level transfer that a club doesn't want to make. In Tows case it increased their travelling costs by a substantial margin ( many players simply do not want to travel far on a Sat, if so join a Nat2 club and above ) and has put their player resources under a strain as a possible consequence of the travelling.
I cannot see how a club can be forced into a league against their better judgement with no financial gain on the table at least.  
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Cannon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 14:46
The sad thing is the higher up the pyramid you go the travel costs increase greatly.

I do also believe if a club is made to move following a successful appeal by another club who should have moved, the club made to move get all their travel costs covered by the RFU (above County league levels).
Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maskedchicken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 18:23
Re Wimbledon. Do they have the same side as last year? The vast majority (80%!) was made up of overseas players so whilst I'm no expert, isn't it the case that unless they are on some favourable passport they cannot play at level 4?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thames Estuary Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 18:23
I’d be interested to know how many clubs in L&SE Prem this year would actually like to be promoted to N2S ? I believe for my club Westcliff it would be fairly disastrous. I believe we want to stay amateur and have the majority of our team formed from former youth players.

Edited by Thames Estuary Man - 10 Oct 2017 at 20:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honestinjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 18:30
I think Barnes would be up for it again only if we can stay up, and not by the skin of our teeth...this would mean learning by the mistakes we have made previously, and ensuring the squad is big enough to deal with the inevitable absences and injuries  - Jan and Feb are often the critical months! 

Edited by honestinjun - 09 Oct 2017 at 23:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intouch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 07:15
Originally posted by Maskedchicken Maskedchicken wrote:

Re Wimbledon. Do they have the same side as last year? The vast majority (80%!) was made up of overseas players so whilst I'm no expert, isn't it the case that unless they are on some favourable passport they cannot play at level 4?

 
They have at least 4 players that were at Oes last season and couldn't get into Oes 1s, played in the 2nd xv all of the season, they wanted 1st xv rugby and live that way, they are now all starting week in week out in Dons 1st xv.


Edited by Intouch - 10 Oct 2017 at 07:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alacadoo trainee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 08:17
Thames Estuary Man - have to say that all clubs would like to go up the leagues, well certainly the players and coaches otherwise what's the point of training minimum twice a week baring injury wanting to be playing for the first team on Saturday and of course winning.
The committee on the other hand may be daunted by the prospect of another level but would also relish the challenge 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thames Estuary Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 09:41
Originally posted by alacadoo trainee alacadoo trainee wrote:


Thames Estuary Man - have to say that all clubs would like to go up the leagues, well certainly the players and coaches otherwise what's the point of training minimum twice a week baring injury wanting to be playing for the first team on Saturday and of course winning.
The committee on the other hand may be daunted by the prospect of another level but would also relish the challenge 



I definitely don’t agree. I think a sensible approach is for clubs to look realistically at the make up of their club and how it’s funded and work out which level suits them best. We prefer N3 to London 1, but I believe most of us think that asking lads to play for no money at a more physically demanding standard and have to travel to Cornwall etc in N2S is just unrealistic.

Edited by Thames Estuary Man - 10 Oct 2017 at 22:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2017 at 11:42
Most clubs playing at L5 I would assume are enjoying the level, the competition, the realistic travel involved and the enjoyment they get. Some clubs do pay at this level, but there are several clubs that do not. Then there are the clubs that are entirely focussed on L4 and above and will do anything to get there. This can only be achieved with massive financial backing (for as long as it lasts) thus attracting better players for the £££. This has been done in recent times by OE's, TJ's and Chinnor and is a model they work on and rely on. Realistically the majority of clubs in L5 have good long standing sponsors, a decent fundraising plan in place, and are backed up in a lot of ways by its faithful membership army of volunteers. This model (without any single massive financial backer) effectively runs and manages the club to good effect keeping finances in order.

It is that old saying 'Cut your coat according to your cloth' or something like that. Having said all that there will be a winner in L5 this season, and they may not be in the mould of OE's or TJ,s, and will therefore find it very difficult at the next level in every aspect.

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