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Kentish Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentish Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 17:56
The £10 admission was for away supporters as I remember and that was the norm in Nat2 in fact Worthing were than charging £12 as well as others but i cannot remember to name names .I always thought it was reasonable ( including the £12 chargers) in all the Nat 2 games I watched for the quality of the Rugby experience  With respect to expense as has been stated earlier funding overnight accommodation for Redruth and Guernsey falls mainly upon club finances rather than the RFU, so I guess not enough left to pay players in the pot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 21:30
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

£10 !!!!
Is that as well as the membership fee and if so what value do you get for the membership then  ?

As Dorking famously don't pay their players, where does all the money go ?
IT. Read the post from Kentish Man. The £10 included a programme, parking, use of clubhouse facilities, etc etc, and this price was included if you had our pre-match lunch, which is one of the best lunches on the circuit for £26. The £10 charge was introduced when we gained L4 promotion. Members pay £5. Sadly there are still a lot of visitors that resent paying anything and go to any lengths to avoid it. I dont know how they expect rugby clubs to survive without charging. If every L5 club achieved promotion they would soon understand the significant increase in costs in moving to the higher level.
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carlos fandango View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carlos fandango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 22:34
'The other available possibility is that at National 2 level you are able to take on premiership sides academy players on loan which can often be beneficial, and as we aren't a million miles away from Quins and London Irish.'

This can have its downsides too. I was reminded last week that when Hertford were in the lofty heights, the 1st team coach got a call from a certain prem side telling him that the 2 lads of theirs who were on the team bus en route to our away game weren't to play. 

Yes I got to see Steffon Armitage play in a blue shirt (didn't rate him at all Confused) but to these old eyes it killed team/club morale and hastened our return to friendlier levels. I hope to get the chance to visit Redruth one day though!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2019 at 23:33
Originally posted by FEZ ANT PLUCKER FEZ ANT PLUCKER wrote:

Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

£10 !!!!
Is that as well as the membership fee and if so what value do you get for the membership then  ?

As Dorking famously don't pay their players, where does all the money go ?
IT. Read the post from Kentish Man. The £10 included a programme, parking, use of clubhouse facilities, etc etc, and this price was included if you had our pre-match lunch, which is one of the best lunches on the circuit for £26. The £10 charge was introduced when we gained L4 promotion. Members pay £5. Sadly there are still a lot of visitors that resent paying anything and go to any lengths to avoid it. I dont know how they expect rugby clubs to survive without charging. If every L5 club achieved promotion they would soon understand the significant increase in costs in moving to the higher level.

I certainly resent being asked to pay to watch a game when the players are supposedly amateur, especially when I will be buying beers in the clubhouse anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 08:29
Originally posted by FEZ ANT PLUCKER FEZ ANT PLUCKER wrote:

Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

£10 !!!!
Is that as well as the membership fee and if so what value do you get for the membership then  ?

As Dorking famously don't pay their players, where does all the money go ?
IT. Read the post from Kentish Man. The £10 included a programme, parking, use of clubhouse facilities, etc etc, and this price was included if you had our pre-match lunch, which is one of the best lunches on the circuit for £26. The £10 charge was introduced when we gained L4 promotion. Members pay £5. Sadly there are still a lot of visitors that resent paying anything and go to any lengths to avoid it. I dont know how they expect rugby clubs to survive without charging. If every L5 club achieved promotion they would soon understand the significant increase in costs in moving to the higher level.

So you still charge £5 for members. What was the membership fee for then ? Just what is "use of clubhouse facilities", the toilets maybe, very cordial of you ?. Car park, how else would spectators arrive, especially to Dorking ? I'm a visitor, I'm going to buy food and drink at the club and I resent paying for entrance to this level. Plenty of clubs do survive without charging entrance fees. It's not visiting supporters responsibility to subsidize the home clubs model.If you charge membership fees and admission, it isn't membership as there isn't anything to be a member of. Bar prices are the same as local pubs, and food is not subsidized either. You cite club survival as an excuse to charge for any and everything and a commercial animal certainly needs to be fed. However if membership fees are really a donation with no benefits then call it as such. In a commercial world transparency is required and why should a rugby club treat its "members" / customers any different.  Cash cows spring to mind. Mooooooove along there !  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carlos fandango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 09:24
This has been as done to death as much as the B-word. 

How about getting back to the run-in. 
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FEZ ANT PLUCKER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 11:33
Originally posted by carlos fandango carlos fandango wrote:

This has been as done to death as much as the B-word. 

How about getting back to the run-in. 

Totally agree and it is what it is. If you object then dont bother coming. I certainly have never objected paying and would willingly pay an equivalent at any club I visit. Some clubs charge for programmes as their entrance fee, some by the vehicle, and others do not charge. It is really a matter for the individual clubs. I dont think Sidcup charge, Sutton dont, and Bedford didnt, but the point is every club has the right to manage its own finances and L4 is a major hike in those costs. Period.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2019 at 19:47
Originally posted by FEZ ANT PLUCKER FEZ ANT PLUCKER wrote:

Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:

Sir Q, without doubt the major contribution has been the quality in coaching, Paul Hodgson who was an ex minis and junior player is at his second spell coaching at the club, he was instrumental in getting us promoted back into London one and then returned this season to work alongside Mike Schmidt who came to us when he left Esher a couple of seasons back. Together they have improved the quality of our existing players and set us up with a proper game plan that has made us difficult to beat.
The other major factor has been behind the scenes where a lot of our volunteers and staff have worked tirelessly in transforming the bar and house and grounds which has made playing at the club a more enjoyable experience, with contributions from all of the senior teams, as well as the amazing support from our ever expanding minis and junior section. #one club

Chinois. I agree with your comments as Dorking followed  a similar route when we were promoted just after Bishops Stortford and just before Old E's. Firstly the increased level of expenses is quite substantial and I think I am right in saying we increased our entrance fee to £10 in line with most N2 sides. This has since met a lot of condemnation now that we have returned to our former level. It was however part of the need to sustain ourselves at L4. I know Sutts charge £5 for a programme but not everyone buys one, so you will need to address that income stream if promotion beckons. I have always been surprised that Sutts have not charged an entrance feeConfused
Dorking had a wonderful debut season at L4 finishing 4th or 5th? with not many L4 clubs knowing enough about us. We had a strong team similar to Sutts in that first season but lost a number of our best players who were poached away. Will Crow and Ross Grimstone to name two. Our 2nd season was wrecked with injuries and lack of depth in strength proved our downfall, despite having a few loan players here and there, but by then L4 clubs were informed.

There is no doubt that fundraising was integral to our income stream with all members playing their part, and the social side benefitted the club as a whole. As a rival supporter I do wish Sutts well and hope you make promotion and enjoy the journey. Every club should aspire to this and test the level. It will be fun but your support will need to boost their income on trips to Redruth and Taunton and earn some brownie points at homeWink  


FP - £10 'entrance fee' - I was under the impression that Dorking were not able to charge an entry fee to the ground or pay players because the Big Field is charitable land. Was I mis-informed?

If it is for entry to the clubhouse, no-one should be pilloried for evading this payment just to watch the game - if they don't want to use the clubhouse facilities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 14:02
Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

Originally posted by FEZ ANT PLUCKER FEZ ANT PLUCKER wrote:

Originally posted by Insignificant Tick Insignificant Tick wrote:

£10 !!!!
Is that as well as the membership fee and if so what value do you get for the membership then  ?

As Dorking famously don't pay their players, where does all the money go ?
IT. Read the post from Kentish Man. The £10 included a programme, parking, use of clubhouse facilities, etc etc, and this price was included if you had our pre-match lunch, which is one of the best lunches on the circuit for £26. The £10 charge was introduced when we gained L4 promotion. Members pay £5. Sadly there are still a lot of visitors that resent paying anything and go to any lengths to avoid it. I dont know how they expect rugby clubs to survive without charging. If every L5 club achieved promotion they would soon understand the significant increase in costs in moving to the higher level.

So you still charge £5 for members. What was the membership fee for then ? Just what is "use of clubhouse facilities", the toilets maybe, very cordial of you ?. Car park, how else would spectators arrive, especially to Dorking ? I'm a visitor, I'm going to buy food and drink at the club and I resent paying for entrance to this level. Plenty of clubs do survive without charging entrance fees. It's not visiting supporters responsibility to subsidize the home clubs model.If you charge membership fees and admission, it isn't membership as there isn't anything to be a member of. Bar prices are the same as local pubs, and food is not subsidized either. You cite club survival as an excuse to charge for any and everything and a commercial animal certainly needs to be fed. However if membership fees are really a donation with no benefits then call it as such. In a commercial world transparency is required and why should a rugby club treat its "members" / customers any different.  Cash cows spring to mind. Mooooooove along there !  

I don't know these clubs but in Berkshire a lot of the clubs membership cards now give a discount at the bar (typically about 10%) so if you spend enough time in the clubhouse bar you can recoup your membership fee in cheaper beer Big smile. If you discount wetherspoons most clubhouses are charging prices just below that in local bups so an additional 10% makes them a cheap place to drink as well. 
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FEZ ANT PLUCKER View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 16:43
Raider. Last time I was at Worthing it was £12 entrance fee. Is It still the same. Dorking lease the Big Field from NT so we are responsible for the greater part of upkeep and all rugby pitches stretching all over the land. Of course this costs nothing does it. Really this conversation is getting sooo tedious.Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 17:54
have to agree that it is tedious. I/my Dad paid to watch all sorts of amateur rugby in the 1980's from Cambridge University through to Twickenham. Just because players aren't paid does not mean that physio's, coach's etc etc aren't and they need to be to create the professional environment necessary to attract good players to continue playing rugby post university. Adults don't want to keep playing just for the beers these days they want to be learning something and get a higher level of coaching than they got at school, university or the academy they are dropping out of.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir_Q Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 17:55
There a bit of talk on here about the massive increase in costs when going from London Prem to Nat 2. Travel would be a factor but possibly only a hike of £2-4k dependent on location and aside from the obvious costs of player payments which I understand aren't relevant in at least 2 of the 3 teams in contention and weren't relevant for Dorking when they went up, what else would contribute to these massive increases in overheads?

Edited by Sir_Q - 14 Mar 2019 at 17:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surreyben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 18:28
Whilst I don't have a problem paying for admission for rugby, whether at Dorking or elsewhere, I think there has to be a recognition of the poor spectator facilities on offer at the majority of rugby clubs. Paying £10 for admission at non-league football would give you access to seating and cover. Whereas, paying £10 admission for Level 5 rugby and standing getting soaking wet on grass/mud is not great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 18:28
from our (Wimbledons) experience there is not a massive increase in costs, and the up side is more home games with more supporters who are more willing to pay £5 for a program. The only real cost increase is player costs to stay in that league. We are well located so it probably would cost us less than others but it is still a necessary cost if you aim to stay in Nat 2 long term.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FEZ ANT PLUCKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 19:22
Originally posted by Sir_Q Sir_Q wrote:

There a bit of talk on here about the massive increase in costs when going from London Prem to Nat 2. Travel would be a factor but possibly only a hike of £2-4k dependent on location and aside from the obvious costs of player payments which I understand aren't relevant in at least 2 of the 3 teams in contention and weren't relevant for Dorking when they went up, what else would contribute to these massive increases in overheads?

I think one of the major costs of promotion to L4 is ground improvements such as fencing off the pitch and providing dugouts for H and A coaches/physios. If this is not compulsory I concede, but on promotion Dorking spent £1000's on this. We also pay our coaching staff and in particular physios and medical team. A lot goes into that. The club has a new development plan to include a viewing balcony in the clubhouse and a major overhaul of players facilities and fitness gym. Lots going on for the benefit of the players and supporters alike. The last time I was at Tonbridge Juddians they had no enclosed pitch, so maybe someone can tell me if they fenced off their 1st team pitch since their promotion. The club has also spent a lot of money on drainage and parking facilities, and the 1st team pitch is manicured and treated professionally each close season. As a Ltd Company DRFC also has to pay VAT to the government, certainly on pre-match lunches which includes the price of entrance fee. So apart from the club running costs on matchdays I am sure there are other overheads I have not thought of. Certainly the travel costs at L4 are significantly higher than L5 with minimul RFU support. I do know that in compliance with our lease DRFC are unable to construct a separate stand opposite our clubhouse, otherwise I am sure it would have been done. Sutton are fortunate as they have a decent pitchside viewing stand albeit some distance from their clubhouse, but they may have to invest in some permanent pitchside fencing/rails.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chiefwiggum1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 20:35
Originally posted by @boatyjames @boatyjames wrote:

from our (Wimbledons) experience there is not a massive increase in costs, and the up side is more home games with more supporters who are more willing to pay £5 for a program. The only real cost increase is player costs to stay in that league. We are well located so it probably would cost us less than others but it is still a necessary cost if you aim to stay in Nat 2 long term.

And what does Wimbledon spend the £30 from program sales on!!...............Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote @boatyjames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2019 at 20:49
As you say not a major source of income- particularly this year!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chinese dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 05:51
Sutton already have fencing / rails on both sides of the pitch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 12:48
Originally posted by FEZ ANT PLUCKER FEZ ANT PLUCKER wrote:

Raider. Last time I was at Worthing it was £12 entrance fee. Is It still the same. Dorking lease the Big Field from NT so we are responsible for the greater part of upkeep and all rugby pitches stretching all over the land. Of course this costs nothing does it. Really this conversation is getting sooo tedious.Unhappy


No it is £10 for non-members
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2019 at 12:52
Originally posted by Sir_Q Sir_Q wrote:

There a bit of talk on here about the massive increase in costs when going from London Prem to Nat 2. Travel would be a factor but possibly only a hike of £2-4k dependent on location and aside from the obvious costs of player payments which I understand aren't relevant in at least 2 of the 3 teams in contention and weren't relevant for Dorking when they went up, what else would contribute to these massive increases in overheads?


With trips to:-

Redruth
Taunton
Dings Crusaders
Old Redcliffians
Clifton

I think you are underestimating the additional cost (didn't mention Guernsey and Birmingham &Solihull as they are likely to go down)

May also be Barnstaple should they win a playoff against the 2nd place in LSE
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