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New Cup Competition Vote - Event Date: 30 Aug 2015 - 31 Dec 2015

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Poll Question: What would improve the season more?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [5.00%]
16 [80.00%]
3 [15.00%]
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Ol' Blue Eyes View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ol' Blue Eyes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: New Cup Competition Vote
    Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 11:57
I was thinking about how much I enjoyed our two visits to Twickenham to play Plymouth and Quins in the old powergen shield. In contrast, the thought of playing the welsh and irish A teams in this year's B+I left me cold. 

Given how much the unions have to subsidize this competition anyway, why not sweep it away and put something in its place that gets the fans excited? I for one, would love a few away trips to Blackheath, Cinderford etc.


Edited by Ol' Blue Eyes - 30 Aug 2015 at 11:58
Run it!
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Surreyben View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surreyben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 13:08
Agreed, the day when both Pirates and Mounts Bay made Twickenham on the old Cup Final day was just magic.
In fact, I'd go further and axe the pointless LV= Cup and bring back a proper Cup competition with Premiership sides taking part as well.
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stonehousealbion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonehousealbion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 13:31
Er,  - think it was the Trophy, OBE...

Without putting the world to rights in a single thread, unless you can transplant the FA Cup into rugby in a single sweep of the wand, I think you're doomed to failure. With seasons generally mapped out a year in advance, a widespread dislike of 50% knockout rates over a weekend, potentially "pointless" injuries, high travel costs and widely varying facilities the over relevant leagues, traditional Cup competitions are not what club management wants these days. (Blame Brum/Solihull! Wink)

OK, this is a poll for supporters, but if the clubs don't care, it won't happen. The B&I has evolved only with much regulaory body involvement (interference?) and is possible less hated/ignored than previously, but it certainly doesn't get hearts a'fluttering.

Will let you know how life compares in a cup-free environment with more league games and blank weekends.
Come cheer up, my lads - 'tis to glory we steer!
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chas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 14:31
Originally posted by stonehousealbion stonehousealbion wrote:

Er,  - think it was the Trophy, OBE...


It was definitely the Powergen Challenge Shield in 2005, when Bedford beat Plymouth ( I am looking at a photo of Leigh Hinton holding it).  It was the Powergen National Trophy when Bedford lost to Harlequins in 2006.
I also have the programmes to confirm this.
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Rich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 14:52
For me the involvement of "A" Irish teams is a bit demeaning/unbalanced, although if you wanted to involve N3 clubs in a cup competition with Champ clubs then I don't imagine it would produce games that were any more meaningful.

How about a Champ/N1 cup with 7 groups of 4 with top 2 from each and 2 best 3rd place teams into knock out last 16? Or better still keep the Welsh Prem teams somehow too...
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isleonian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isleonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 15:06
3rd tier European, wow: such as:

Narbonne v Leinster A
Pontypridd v Calvisanno
Biarritz v Doncaster Knights
Montaubon v Rotherham Titans

Food for thought maybe?
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in-the-know View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in-the-know Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 15:12
Personally I don't think the champ teams would fair very well against prod2 sides. Their budgets are so much higher.
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J Lowe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote J Lowe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 15:40
I want to vote to keep the B&I Cup but I am not given the option in the poll. Disappointing
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stonehousealbion View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonehousealbion Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 16:07
Originally posted by Rich Rich wrote:

For me the involvement of "A" Irish teams is a bit demeaning/unbalanced, although if you wanted to involve N3 clubs in a cup competition with Champ clubs then I don't imagine it would produce games that were any more meaningful.

We only ever came up against Leinster and Munster and did reasonably well overall. (Cue instant Stato refutal...) Catch them on the run up to an tricky ERC game and the A team could easily misfire. It was always going to be a positive challenge. And a good away fixture - IF they kept to the times/venue. I think the 4 nations principle was good, but didn't enjoy substandard re-hashes of recent C'ship fixtures or faceless composite sides. But the lack of sponsorship was/is telling.

Same old same old - more money (RFU or commercial), more profile and better opposition in certain quarters...

PS. Trophy/Shield? Had it in my mind it was Cup/Trophy/Shield/ Senior & Junior Vase, but there you go... Whatever, we wuz robbed! Wink
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 18:50
We have seen N2 sides putting 50 points on their N3 neighbours and N1 teams doing that to N2 sides.
So we could see some very large mismatches unless we stage entry.

Anyway isn't National 3 going away, with Nat2 and Nat3 being repaced with three pools of 15.
That would be 72 teams in Championship, Nat1 and the new Nat2.5.

I think that would be a round 1 with 40 Nat2.5 teams.
Those 20 winners would be joined by 15 Nat 1 and 5 Nat 2.5 teams - probaby the three teams relegated from N1 the previous season and two best runners up.
The twenty winners would be joined by the 12 championship sides for 3,4,Q,S,F

So 7 weeks needed. Which NCA sides do not have spare.
They have 28 games over 30 weeks, with a few catch up weeks to allow for weather - then the four week County season

Bit if you could schedule rounds 3 and 4 and the quater finas for the catch up weeks, and pay semi finals and final in May it might work if the weather was kind.

If you reduced the size of the new leagues to 14, so no bye weeks. You gain two weeks for the cup.
You still need 20 games in round 2.
But there would only be 16 in round 1 - ten N2.5 sides would get a bye to round 2.

Of course you would need fully funded travel and a prize fund that pays enough to cover wage bills to make it worthwhile - which they old trophy did not have.

So I would prefer to see a 16 team champonship and N1 and 16 team divisions in N2 as is - with no cup.
If lower leagues really want ess travel, simply lose N3 and have 4 up 4 down from N2 with 1 up from each of the four D1 leagues.4up 4 down from N2 into N1 and 2up, 2down between N1 and Championship.

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McGee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote McGee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 19:02
Originally posted by stonehousealbion stonehousealbion wrote:

Er,  - think it was the Trophy, OBE...

Without putting the world to rights in a single thread, unless you can transplant the FA Cup into rugby in a single sweep of the wand, I think you're doomed to failure. With seasons generally mapped out a year in advance, a widespread dislike of 50% knockout rates over a weekend, potentially "pointless" injuries, high travel costs and widely varying facilities the over relevant leagues, traditional Cup competitions are not what club management wants these days. (Blame Brum/Solihull! Wink)

OK, this is a poll for supporters, but if the clubs don't care, it won't happen. The B&I has evolved only with much regulaory body involvement (interference?) and is possible less hated/ignored than previously, but it certainly doesn't get hearts a'fluttering.

Will let you know how life compares in a cup-free environment with more league games and blank weekends.


we used to have a cup like that, complete with giant slayers (as an old follower of Bedford I am more than aware of the giant slayers), why not bring it back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2015 at 19:12
Originally posted by J Lowe J Lowe wrote:

I want to vote to keep the B&I Cup but I am not given the option in the poll. Disappointing
I'm with JL on this one and am definitely looking forward to a trip to Galway this year. I would like the Scots teams back tho - any of the Border teams would do nicely.
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
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