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islander View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 10:19
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

There is a major problem with increasing the number of teams in the Premiership to 13 or 14 - this means increasing the number of weekly rounds from 22 to 26.

To achieve this something must go - either the Premiership Cup or the end of season play-offs (or both).

Surely the Prem Cup gets binned - would that constitute a major problem?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 13:33
Can we stop the digs and personal attacks please.  It does no one credit. 

First and final warning. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 17:13
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

There is a major problem with increasing the number of teams in the Premiership to 13 or 14 - this means increasing the number of weekly rounds from 22 to 26.

To achieve this something must go - either the Premiership Cup or the end of season play-offs (or both).

<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">

Surely the Prem Cup gets binned - would that constitute a major problem?


Personally, I would say no problem - most games involve reserve/junior players with the odd senior player who needs some game time.

My point was that those advocating 13/14 teams in a ring-fenced Premiership don't offer any explanation of how to fit the extra 4 weeks of fixtures in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 18:36
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

There is a major problem with increasing the number of teams in the Premiership to 13 or 14 - this means increasing the number of weekly rounds from 22 to 26.

To achieve this something must go - either the Premiership Cup or the end of season play-offs (or both).

<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">

Surely the Prem Cup gets binned - would that constitute a major problem?


Personally, I would say no problem - most games involve reserve/junior players with the odd senior player who needs some game time.

My point was that those advocating 13/14 teams in a ring-fenced Premiership don't offer any explanation of how to fit the extra 4 weeks of fixtures in.

I agree this hasn't been spelled out directly, but the Prem Cup 'swap' seems obvious, doesn't it? (and also scores some 'player welfare' points - if there are 13 teams - due to there being 2 x bye weeks)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 19:16
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

There is a major problem with increasing the number of teams in the Premiership to 13 or 14 - this means increasing the number of weekly rounds from 22 to 26.

To achieve this something must go - either the Premiership Cup or the end of season play-offs (or both).

<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">

Surely the Prem Cup gets binned - would that constitute a major problem?


Personally, I would say no problem - most games involve reserve/junior players with the odd senior player who needs some game time.

My point was that those advocating 13/14 teams in a ring-fenced Premiership don't offer any explanation of how to fit the extra 4 weeks of fixtures in.

<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">

I agree this hasn't been spelled out directly, but the Prem Cup 'swap' seems obvious, doesn't it? (and also scores some 'player welfare' points - if there are 13 teams - due to there being 2 x bye weeks)


Not disagreeing with you, however I would not want it ring-fenced - there must always be some way of getting to the top-table, after all where were European/English champions Exeter 20 years ago?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2021 at 22:58
They could always rig it in the usual way (the way that backfired to let London Welsh and Exeter in), top championship/bottom premiership two-legged playoff with Premiership team home second. Especially after a Championship play-off (just like Scottish football) for the right.

Be plenty of Samoa vs Germany style matches but there's still always a chance for promotion
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woody Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2021 at 11:30
Probably just a BBC mistake but this is the end of the article on Saracens cancelling their match at Donny.

"The 12-team league will be split into two conferences from March with the winners of each playing a two-legged final for the right to earn promotion to the Premiership."

Surely if you win the final you have earned the right to be promoted already? Or do they mean it only means automatic promotion if Sarries win it? Is the minimum standard criteria still a thing?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OLDALIKADOO10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2021 at 15:26
I think the challenge is giving Saracens a shot
at promotion. The championship may be split into 4 conferences to reduce fixtures and I’ve even heard I could be a shoot out between the championship teams that can operate without crowds.
Who knows what the outcome will be, but I guarantee there are a lot of people in dark rooms thinking about all sorts of ways to ensure the championship has a team promoted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 11:10
Originally posted by OLDALIKADOO10 OLDALIKADOO10 wrote:

I think the challenge is giving Saracens a shot
at promotion. The championship may be split into 4 conferences to reduce fixtures and I’ve even heard I could be a shoot out between the championship teams that can operate without crowds.
Who knows what the outcome will be, but I guarantee there are a lot of people in dark rooms thinking about all sorts of ways to ensure the championship has a team promoted

I certainly think there will be a lot of people in dark rooms thinking about all sorts of ways to ensure the Cheats are promoted. Sadly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote isleonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 18:12
Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2021 at 20:57
Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:


Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?


Presumably because this would mean sharing the Premiership money out between more clubs?

Otherwise why would the Championship clubs go for it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 06:58
Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?

Because the Prem clubs don't want this, and they can't - realistically - be forced into it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 08:50
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?

Because the Prem clubs don't want this, and they can't - realistically - be forced into it.
Stephen Jones' Sunday Times column addresses this quite well. Guess you'd have to get behind their paywall to read it online - but a good read if you can.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stadium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 09:26
The Premiership Clubs survive on being a greedy cartel. But for how much longer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 09:54
Bcause the Premiership was a break away by the senior clubs.
The RFU felt they did not have the power to stop it as they felt at the time they could break away entirely.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 10:20
Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?

Because, and I thought this when MOse were in the Championship too so it's not special pleading - every club in the country aside from the chosen 12 has been raging at the premiership for running away and pulling up the drawbridge since 1995. I'm inherently sceptical of any solution which involves the 12 Championship clubs joining them to make 24 who are running away and pulling up the drawbridge.

Brian Moore had it right in the most recent Rugby Journal - we should have gone regional in 1995 with the RFU in the driving seat and 4-6 pro clubs playing in a NH club league. Instead we got a small number of business men with sacks of cash and delusions about how big RU was going to be which have *never* come to fruition, a broken relationship between the union and the professional game, and carnage at every level below.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 13:46
Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?

Allied Dunabr Premiership One and Two was exactly this, only without the actual money or TV deal...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote knightandday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 16:11
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?

Because, and I thought this when MOse were in the Championship too so it's not special pleading - every club in the country aside from the chosen 12 has been raging at the premiership for running away and pulling up the drawbridge since 1995. I'm inherently sceptical of any solution which involves the 12 Championship clubs joining them to make 24 who are running away and pulling up the drawbridge.

Brian Moore had it right in the most recent Rugby Journal - we should have gone regional in 1995 with the RFU in the driving seat and 4-6 pro clubs playing in a NH club league. Instead we got a small number of business men with sacks of cash and delusions about how big RU was going to be which have *never* come to fruition, a broken relationship between the union and the professional game, and carnage at every level below.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 16:32
Premier Rugby Limited was incorporated in March 2001. So at the start of the Guinness era.


Edited by Camquin - 25 Jan 2021 at 16:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2021 at 20:14
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by isleonian isleonian wrote:

Why not administer the Premiership and Championship together as the professional clubs a bit like France?

Because, and I thought this when MOse were in the Championship too so it's not special pleading - every club in the country aside from the chosen 12 has been raging at the premiership for running away and pulling up the drawbridge since 1995. I'm inherently sceptical of any solution which involves the 12 Championship clubs joining them to make 24 who are running away and pulling up the drawbridge.

Brian Moore had it right in the most recent Rugby Journal - we should have gone regional in 1995 with the RFU in the driving seat and 4-6 pro clubs playing in a NH club league. Instead we got a small number of business men with sacks of cash and delusions about how big RU was going to be which have *never* come to fruition, a broken relationship between the union and the professional game, and carnage at every level below.



This is what Fran Cotton more or less proposed, Divisional teams, but political in-flghting and money strangled the idea before birth. 


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