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North Midlands Cup controversy

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Dagfish View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dagfish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: North Midlands Cup controversy
    Posted: 09 May 2016 at 09:44
The North Midlands Cup final ended in rather farcical circumstances yesterday. Newport (Salop) had been leading for much of the game, but Birmingham & Solihull Bees had fought their way back into the match, levelled the scores at 20-20, and were in the ascendancy in the final couple of minutes of the game.

Bees seemingly scored another try in the corner, but the referee consulted his touch judge and between them they disallowed it for a double movement (some would say controversially, but that wasn't the major issue).

He restarted the game with a Newport penalty, telling the players that this was the last play, and that the game would be going into extra time. Newport unsurprisingly kicked the ball into touch.

As the players, fans and everybody else were preparing for extra time, there was a tannoy announcement declaring that the referee had made a mistake, and that the competition rules indicated that tries scored were to be taken into account before the extra time, and this would have a bearing on the result.

The game was then replayed from the previous penalty, with Newport now electing to run the ball. It was eventually turned over and Bees kicked to touch. Bees had won the game & the cup by 3 tries to 2.

Shouldn't it be an obvious move to ensure that the referee knows the rules of the competition BEFORE the game starts?


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OldNick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2016 at 09:56
Clearly yes, but if the final play of the game (the only one potentially affected by them) was (re-)played according to the rules, and the result decided according to the rules it seems there is very little to worry about in this case. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2016 at 10:13
Semms like a sensible outcome. I am amazed that so many cup competitions have different rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedOrDead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2016 at 14:05
Originally posted by Dagfish Dagfish wrote:

Shouldn't it be an obvious move to ensure that the referee knows the rules of the competition BEFORE the game starts?

I've never been to clear on referee's responsibilities in this regard. Personally I would take the view that the referee's job is to enforce the laws and it's the organising committee's job to enforce the competition rules. Saying that, providing misinformation reflects very poorly on the referee who must either have made an assumption or had misunderstood the rules.

I don't really see that either side can feel too aggrieved though, surely the coaches and captains should be fully aware of the competition rules as they could impact upon their decision making process late in the game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2016 at 16:15
Originally posted by RedOrDead RedOrDead wrote:

Originally posted by Dagfish Dagfish wrote:

Shouldn't it be an obvious move to ensure that the referee knows the rules of the competition BEFORE the game starts?

I've never been to clear on referee's responsibilities in this regard. Personally I would take the view that the referee's job is to enforce the laws and it's the organising committee's job to enforce the competition rules. Saying that, providing misinformation reflects very poorly on the referee who must either have made an assumption or had misunderstood the rules.

I don't really see that either side can feel too aggrieved though, surely the coaches and captains should be fully aware of the competition rules as they could impact upon their decision making process late in the game.
 
I agree with your comments RoD, in the perfect world there would be a competition official at all games but typically with the exception of the final the referee does need to be aware of "Local Rules".  "Local Rules" can have an effect on extra time or not, kick off times, results outcome if its a draw after 80 mins, as well as uncontested scrums, number of subs, type of eligible players etc.
 
I also agree that I'd have though any club would know the rules as well, especially at this level!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RedOrDead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2016 at 16:29
A pragmatic view Cannon. If the referee needs to be aware of such things, then it is down to whoever appoints him or her to ensure that they are aware of everything that they need to be. As I said above, I'm confused as to how the referee could come to supply players with misinformation in this instance.
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Cannon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cannon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2016 at 16:53
Originally posted by RedOrDead RedOrDead wrote:

A pragmatic view Cannon. If the referee needs to be aware of such things, then it is down to whoever appoints him or her to ensure that they are aware of everything that they need to be. As I said above, I'm confused as to how the referee could come to supply players with misinformation in this instance.
Trust me the appointing society will not provide you with rules typically.
 
The problem is each cup competition has its own rules - as a ref I'll always download the latest rules as season on season you can guarantee they'll change!! Most 2nd team leagues will also have different rules.
 
Why make it easy for anyone?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CharlieP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2016 at 15:45
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

The problem is each cup competition has its own rules - as a ref I'll always download the latest rules as season on season you can guarantee they'll change!! Most 2nd team leagues will also have different rules.
I remember being 3rd team manager a few years ago when we were in a merit league with mostly 2nd XVs.  The league rules placed a limit on substitutes of 3 or 4, with the exception of the lowest team in a club, who were either allowed a higher number, or unlimited (my memory is not what it used to be).
 
One day we travelled away with 7 backs (including me) and about 13 forwards, thanks to a couple of lads turning up at the last minute.  I started with the strongest team, but promised everybody a game, however after a few injury-induced replacements in the first half, the referee wouldn't let me bring on the final two on the curt grounds that "it's a league match".  Had I not been on the pitch I'd have brandished the competition rules on the spot, but had to rely on persuading him that he was mistaken, which unsurprisingly didn't work.  One of the two unused players was particularly aggrieved, as it turned out he'd turned down a day's work for the privilege of standing on the touchline for 80 minutes. Angry
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