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Neasham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2019 at 17:26
Originally posted by Griffin Griffin wrote:

Curioser and curiouser! More speculation and fake news!

I just messaged a contact at Kendal and he said:-

<div id="m_-3147054269909279637AppleMailSignature" style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;">"My understanding is that Penrith will be in North 1 east and Kendal in North 1 west."
<div id="m_-3147054269909279637AppleMailSignature" style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;">
<div id="m_-3147054269909279637AppleMailSignature" style="color: rgb34, 34, 34; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: small;">Oh what fun we have!



Penrith make it clear on their website that they had decided not to volunteer this time around and presumably couldn’t be forced as they have recently been level transferred.
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Griffin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2019 at 20:38
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:


Penrith make it clear on their website that they had decided not to volunteer this time around and presumably couldn’t be forced as they have recently been level transferred.

Yes, I had noticed that but had forgotten [1], but then I am old. My Kendal contact must be misinformed.

I think I'll just wait until the fixtures come out.Confused

[1] See my post on the 19th May on Page 41.


Edited by Griffin - 31 May 2019 at 20:41
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Neasham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2019 at 20:58
Funnily enough Penrith say one of their reasons for not volunteering to move to N1E again is because they were expecting (lucrative) derbies with relegated Kendal in N1W. Ironic.

Edited by Neasham - 31 May 2019 at 20:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rochdale Cowboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 10:38
On a separate note gentlemen, I noticed a tweet over the weekend from former Sale Sharks player Mark Jennings confirming that he will be player/coach of Wilmslow RUFC next season.
 
A hell of a signing for Wilmslow as Jennings only left Sharks due to personal reasons and is a hell of a physical inside centre.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 14:46
Interesting statement on the Kendal website regarding their level transfer to North 1 East with the RFU disregarding the normal level transfer procedure. I wonder how it will affect future level transfers. Will they be done seemingly by random thought?

"

A decision by the RFU has placed Kendal in N1E next season.

After our relegation from North Premier in April, the RFU have confirmed that Kendal will play in North 1 East for the forthcoming season. Our historical and geographical ties are with the North West and we were expecting to be in North 1 West, but that is not to be. I apologise for the following lengthy explanation which I hope is of interest
When there is an imbalance between the numbers of teams in East and West the decision is normally made using mileage calculations with the lowest travel mileage being the determining factor for level transfer (RFU Regulation 13). If that was the case, Kendal would not be selected for transfer to N1E as other Clubs have significantly lower mileage.
There has been a review of the structure of rugby in the North in the last year, driven by the wish of some Lancashire and Cheshire clubs not to travel long distances to play Cumbrian teams. The restructuring proposal, which showed us in N1E was initially said to be indicative, but has become the definitive outcome. We have done our best to remain in N1W but to no avail. The decision was finally made at Twickenham and, I suspect, with no real insight into the prevailing weather conditions over the A66 in winter. Unfortunately there is no appeal against this ruling.
Instead of using Regulation 13, the RFU have calculated the distances Cumbrian clubs at level 6 would have to travel in N1E (Us, Penrith and Keswick) and we are the lowest. We are, however, the Club with the largest additional mileage if moving to N1E at 755 additional miles. We may be able to secure an increased travel grant as compensation but that is not certain. You may remember that the RFU has already announced a 60% reduction in travel support for the forthcoming season."


Edited by Griffin - 09 Jun 2019 at 16:02
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 17:12
Surely there must be some sort of review into this. Seems the competition rules have been discarded and somehow Cheshire and Lancashire now get to dictate which clubs are division transferred.

Quite frankly I'd dump all the agitating teams out of the RFU and if they ever want to reapply then they can start from the very bottom.

I have no problem with Cheshire or Lancashire starting their own setups outside the RFU but to demand that the rules on divisional transfers are changed purely for their own benefit is selfish and disrespectful
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 17:23
CF, have you been away?

All the "agitating Teams" aren't in the RFU Competition and the statement from Kendal is absolute Hogwash. Not one single Club from either Lancashire or Cheshire agitated for anything (this season). This is Option X being implemented, it is what Cumbria as County voted for as did everyone else bar Lancashire where Option X got less than 40% of the vote.

Yep exactly like Brexit, you voted for it, you got it, it doesn't suit us now..... nice try Kendal but it doesn't work like that. Even if as a Club you may have voted for Option Y then your CB was lobbying for Option X so I suggest Kendal take it up with their CB Reps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 17:44
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

CF, have you been away?

All the "agitating Teams" aren't in the RFU Competition and the statement from Kendal is absolute Hogwash. Not one single Club from either Lancashire or Cheshire agitated for anything (this season). This is Option X being implemented, it is what Cumbria as County voted for as did everyone else bar Lancashire where Option X got less than 40% of the vote.

Yep exactly like Brexit, you voted for it, you got it, it doesn't suit us now..... nice try Kendal but it doesn't work like that. Even if as a Club you may have voted for Option Y then your CB was lobbying for Option X so I suggest Kendal take it up with their CB Reps.


I have nothing to do with Kendal. The team I am closest to are under Cheshire jurisdiction at Level 7 and I will be disappointed if they are one of the clubs that hate travelling to Cumbria.

The issues leading to option X and Y were mostly in relation to rugby at level 7 not level 6. As far as I'm aware barely any Level 6 clubs had any problems

Option Y would have led to an additional level 6 league but option X mostly retained the current level 6 set up. Now for some reason rather than transferring the nearest club from West to East they have decided to transfer a club which involves far more travel

Edited by Count Ford - 09 Jun 2019 at 17:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 18:03
CF I know you're not from Kendal.

Option X published by the Review Group in February had Kendal in North 1 East.

Cumbria canvassed for Option X, that is what was delivered. Both the Cheshire and Lancashire CBs appealed against Option X but had those Appeals dismissed by the RFU after hearing Cumbria RFU & others support it.

The changes at Level 6 were deemed necessary by the Review Group and of which neither Cheshire or Lancashire thought needed.

So in short, Cumbria voted for a structure that the RFU came up with.

Nowt to do with Lancashire and even less to do with Cheshire.
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Count Ford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 18:28
There is little doubt that Cheshire and Lancashire were pushing for solutions that minimised them travelling to Cumbria.

Cumbria were pushed in to a corner and voted for the least worst option which was X.

There is no logical reason why transfers between North One East and West at L6 should not be based on the team closest to
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 18:39
I was under the impression that the review was to consider the excessive travel at Level 7. As a team goes up the league pyramid they would expect to have more travelling. I wasn't aware that there had been complaints of excessive travel at Level 6. It seems that the 'no more than two Cumbrian teams per league' has been applied at Level 6 as well as level 7.

Just to continue this logic. If Durham and Yorkshire teams at level 7 complained that travel to North Northumberland was excessive then at level 6 why not move Percy Park over to N1W to reduce the North Northumberland teams to just two?

I can't find the document showing the original Option X and Y but I think it said it was 'Indicative'. 
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 18:41
CF, no Lancs & Ches where pushing for ZERO travel to Cumbria. Option X gave that idea the middle finger.

The logical reason as I understand it it helps Option X "flow" potentially better below Level 6..... can't see it myself. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 19:40
How does it work from season to season? Do Kendal stay in the east or do the Cumbrian teams take turns on a rotation? Or are we expecting another review next year!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 06:55
Kendal is 20 miles north of Lancaster on the M6, so about 15 minutes more, hardly a rugby outpost....literally borderline Cumbria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 07:42
Regular fixture with Kendal back in the old days for Port but back in the old days clubs played 34 + games a season.We managed the travel in those days but then again we didn't play players and the social pressures were different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 08:23
Out of curiosity I did a comparison of the mileage in both N1W and N1E of the mileage if Kendal are transferred and if Stockport are transferred. The total mileage goes down with Kendal transferred. It goes down in N1W (-1147) and up in N1E (+362) but overall it goes down by 785 miles.


With Stockport level transferred
N1WN1ETotal both leagues
Total Mileage246682332447992
With Kendal level transferred
N1WN1ETotal both leagues
Total Mileage235212368647207


Edited by Griffin - 10 Jun 2019 at 08:24
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 10:35
Some very hard miles in Winter constantly going East.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 11:00
It will be interesting as to how the RFU enshrine the Level Transfer of Kendal into a regulation that everyone can see.
=====================

(c) In the event that promotion and relegation pursuant to Regulation 13.2.11(b) above does not produce the Correct Number of Clubs for the following Season in two or more leagues, a Club or Clubs shall (subject to the provisions of 13.2.11 (f) and (g) below) be Level Transferred to restore the Correct Number of Clubs. Club(s) will be selected for Level Transfer in accordance with Regulations 13.2.11(d) and (e) below. Except in North 1 West where if there are more than two Cumbrian clubs in North 1 West the Cumbrian Club with the lowest mileage shall be Level Transferred. The logic for this is ??

===========================

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." Richard Feynman. God = √-1.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 15:31
You are there with the facts G but like the rest of us not acquainted with the logic employed by the RFU.

What is clear is that in N1W ( say) clubs currently in the league have a number of local derbies which help encourage player recruitment and retention given that players are no longer interested in turning out every Sat from Sept to April. The local games also help generate a more consistent revenue stream and provide opportunities to meet old friends/adversaries.

Travel costs are kept to a minimum and even the longer trips ( Kendal for example are manageable.

Unfortunately the current structure creates potential problems particularly for those clubs located close to an adjoining region which means that few clubs moving up/down the pyramid are guaranteed a spot in their local league. Things were not too bad when the RFU supported clubs with travelling expenses but as this support has reduced the no of clubs complaining has increased a situation not helped by the paying of players at this level which quite honestly remains a joke when the average gate is probably less than 100.

In many ways the obvious approach would be to :-

1. Retain the Prem as fully professional albeit with a reduction in the number of imports allowed and also increase teams to 14 to encourage a country wide spread.

2. Set up regional ( say N and S ) second tier ( semi-professional). Promotion ,if appropriate, to be subject to strict guidelines ( ground, budget,sustainability) and probably a play off involving ( say bottom club in Prem,winners of both leagues and best second placed team.

3.Create a third tier ( say NW,NE,E Mids,W Mids,S East and S West ( and possibly London) which could also be semi professional albeit on a more modest scale. Again a play off for promotion would be appropriate.

4. Restructure the "local" leagues with the aim of minimising expenditure whilst still providing the opportunity for ambitious clubs to proceed through the tiers.

If something like this isn't done then I'm afraid the structurevwill continue to fragment.
2. Set up the Championship as 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 12:42
Fixtures up on RFU website. Loo away to Penrith on the opening day...
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