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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 13:08
Couple of issues with above.
If the players are paid by the club and the club pays the tax, NI including employers contribution then the players are entitled to the support the government is offering along with anyone employed in a non playing role. I know no one at Blackheath has his rugby money as sole income.
We have at Well Hall over the last few years spent over £1m on the pitch, lights and facilities and had Continued with this investment this season so we have possibly spent more on infrastructure than players in recent times.
At this time of year we along with most clubs will have a planned maintenance for the pitch to get it ready for next year which will still have to be done and paid for without income but everyone will want it to be in good nick and if it’s not done it will not last the season 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 13:42
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Couple of issues with above.
If the players are paid by the club and the club pays the tax, NI including employers contribution then the players are entitled to the support the government is offering along with anyone employed in a non playing role. I know no one at Blackheath has his rugby money as sole income.
We have at Well Hall over the last few years spent over £1m on the pitch, lights and facilities and had Continued with this investment this season so we have possibly spent more on infrastructure than players in recent times.
At this time of year we along with most clubs will have a planned maintenance for the pitch to get it ready for next year which will still have to be done and paid for without income but everyone will want it to be in good nick and if it’s not done it will not last the season 

Commendable investment from one of the countries oldest clubs.
However the games haven’t taken place, the players haven’t been training, they’ve had no contact with the squad/club so what are we compensating them for?
What terms were the contracts?  Pay to play?  

Who’s to say who was going to be in the match day squad?  Injury, form etc come into play.

If clubs are genuinely going to use this Government money in this manner then this plague on capitalism really has come at right time. 

It’s for genuine workers who genuinely can’t go out to work and earn a living not to be misused by rugby players trying to top up their income.
National One rugby - two training sessions a week and one game - the vast majority they can still get to watch Soccer AM and still be back in time for Ant & Dec. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 19:39
MB,
I have a 'singing sixpence' that the vast majority of players contracts at level 3 and below are 'pay for play' and would therefore would not be eligible for the 80% pay out. If they are not playing then there is no damage to the  playing budget, which if your club has a self financing semi-pro top end (as my club does) then they will hopefully have a more than healthy budget when we start to play again.

My concern is for our paid full time employees and those of a temporary nature, e.g. bar staff and casual catering staff.

The amount of revenue that the club (not the 1st XV - they take nowt from the members club) will lose will have our exec scratching their heads for a while, but I have no doubt that in their infinite wisdom they will pull through.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 20:37
Originally posted by SKalpy SKalpy wrote:

MB,
I have a 'singing sixpence' that the vast majority of players contracts at level 3 and below are 'pay for play' and would therefore would not be eligible for the 80% pay out. If they are not playing then there is no damage to the  playing budget, which if your club has a self financing semi-pro top end (as my club does) then they will hopefully have a more than healthy budget when we start to play again.

My concern is for our paid full time employees and those of a temporary nature, e.g. bar staff and casual catering staff.

The amount of revenue that the club (not the 1st XV - they take nowt from the members club) will lose will have our exec scratching their heads for a while, but I have no doubt that in their infinite wisdom they will pull through.


Skalpy and this is where any emergency fund will go. The full time bar manager will be required when rugby starts up again. Look after them, look after groundstaff etc.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2020 at 20:52
MB,

I totally agree with you, but you were implying that clubs would use the emergency fund to pay players, which I still maintain is outside the remit of the fund. Our ground staff are all volunteers apart from our club steward who looks after the 1st team pitch.

However, what this has to do with the future of O.E's is beyond me.


Edited by SKalpy - 26 Mar 2020 at 20:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 09:15
Skalpy no emergency fund should go to pay players. I think you will find a good number of players at level 3, and lower, are on guaranteed monthly retainer payments with in addition a top up match fee. If the clubs correctly put these retainer payments through the HMRC/NI books I would suggest these payments may well come under the new 80% legislation. I am not sure OE's future was looking very rosy before the crisis-I would suggest now they may sadly be in danger of doing a South Leicester.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 12:27
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

Skalpy no emergency fund should go to pay players. I think you will find a good number of players at level 3, and lower, are on guaranteed monthly retainer payments with in addition a top up match fee. If the clubs correctly put these retainer payments through the HMRC/NI books I would suggest these payments may well come under the new 80% legislation. I am not sure OE's future was looking very rosy before the crisis-I would suggest now they may sadly be in danger of doing a South Leicester.


Totally agree, however I suspect very few players, at least those below the Championship, are paid through PAYE - so they won't qualify
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 12:36
Actually any player being paid at whatever level SHOULD be through PAYE
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 12:54
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Totally agree, however I suspect very few players, at least those below the Championship, are paid through PAYE - so they won't qualify

F F S  - Haven't we been through this enough times? Have not enough clubs been caught and fined, even gone into liquidation? 

Everything, including travel from home, should go through PAYE. 



Edited by FHLH - 28 Mar 2020 at 01:53
"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 14:00
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Actually any player being paid at whatever level SHOULD be through PAYE


Should be and are - 2 very different things, however if you are correct then the club should be able to get the 80% of wages under the government scheme
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2020 at 16:08
This was my point above. It could also mean the boys at OEs providing they have a valid contract could get some money  for not playing when they couldn’t for playing😃 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 17:55
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

This was my point above. It could also mean the boys at OEs providing they have a valid contract could get some money  for not playing when they couldn’t for playing😃 

I don't think contracts will be worth much when the company named on the contract soon goes into liquidation. Plus, rumour has it they have terminated their scholarship with St Mary's University 2 years into a 5 year contract. The death of Kobus Paulsen and now COVID-19 is bringing this club to its knees and I'm sure it wont be the only one to fold.
But, on a positive not I'm sure you will see some good local clubs like Westcombe Park and the likes benefit from Old E's players looking for new clubs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 19:06
BE i think you will find W Park promotion squad contained a number of players who started the season at OE's
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 22:08
Westcombe Park are not as local to OEs as they once were.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 01:22
It’s a shame they couldn’t help down the road at Sidcup. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 11:37
Originally posted by Dave G/w Dave G/w wrote:

It’s a shame they couldn’t help down the road at Sidcup. 


They went to OEs - not for the facilities, so they will go where the best offer is.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 12:08
So let's make a worst case scenario assumption, that OEs don't actually make it to line up at the start of next season - does Nat 1 continue with 15 teams (and only 2 relegated, presumably), or do the RFU do a quick reshuffle to promote one more from Nat 2 with consequent effects down the pyramid?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 12:29
There is a cut off date - this was discussed last season wrt Carnegie.

Should a club withdraw from Nat 1 by 1st June there are only two clubs relegated wirth knock on down the leagues and all leagues start with the correct number
If any club withdraws after that - the league goes ahead on down.
If a club folds mid season - all its results are null and void for that season.

However, were a championship or promiership side fold between 1 June and 1 August then RFU can require that place is filled and National 1 goes ahead one short.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 12:44
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Westcombe Park are not as local to OEs as they once were.
At a guess between 3 and 4 miles as the crow flies. Thumbs Up
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Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 13:03
But what if both OEs and Leeds don’t make the starting line or anyone else for that matter these are tricky times for most
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