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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Playing Budgets
    Posted: 29 Jun 2009 at 22:01
There was some discussion at our AGM tonight about Playing Budgets, obviously some feel it's too much, and others not enough, a situation that no doubt is repeated around the Country, so what sort of Playing Budget is the norm in National 3?

When I mean Playing Budget, I mean everything to do with playing, including kit, transport, expenses, ground maintenance, etc.

Obviously people like to keep such matters under wraps, so to engender the discussion and 'kick off', Newport (Salop) has a budget around £56k for 2009/10, is this near the average for this level?

How does it compare to level 3 and 4?


Edited by Wireless - 29 Jun 2009 at 22:02
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 00:02
All based upon heresay and comments on the forum but some teams in level 3 were reputed to be spending around £350k+ last year and the consensus for level 4 was around £100k = £150k with some spending a lot more than this.

How they all managed to raise this much money and sustain it is the more puzzling question.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 03:17
Those sorts of figures do seem a little unreal, and finding an extra £100k to play in level 4 is not the best incentive to winning promotion from level 5.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 09:27

Hmmmmm

I am aware of a number of level 3 & 4 clubs who have slashed their budget for 2009/10, in particular their 'pay to play' costs have been cut to the bone, in some cases they've stopped paying altogether!

This is a sensible response to market conditions which have seen company profits under pressure and personal wealth decline, white knights pockets are a lot shallower than they used to be and there is a lot less cash to flash.

Examples include a level 4 club whose budget has been cut from £300k to £100k, 2 level 5 clubs with a tradition of 'pay to play' having ceased paying entirely.

Halifax & London Welsh are just the tip of the iceberg, clubs that have borrowed against their assets for playing expenditure are now likely to be under much greater scrutiny from their bankers since the assets are declining in value and income (personal spending, sponsorship, etc.) is under pressure. Exactly the same pressure is being felt by sponsors and potential sponsors.

IMO, at this level, paying players substantial sums of money to maintain/improve league status is an ego trip for committees & supporters, investing in infrastructure, coaching & youth development is more appropriate.

However, clubs can do what they want with their money, expecting to do it with the RFU's money is another thing entirely!
a Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 11:08
Originally posted by BiffBoffBish BiffBoffBish wrote:

All based upon heresay and comments on the forum but some teams in level 3 were reputed to be spending around £350k+ last year and the consensus for level 4 was around £100k = £150k with some spending a lot more than this.

How they all managed to raise this much money and sustain it is the more puzzling question.

From my knowledge of level 4, these figures are about right Biff. Even with a turnover of almost £1M on all club activities, Fylde struggles to make substantial profits. As we all know, the world out there is very competitive ...
An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 11:20
FA, you not only have the best signature amongst contributors to these Forums (Fora?) but along with Biff, Matchmaker and others you talk great sense. You continually remind us that the RFU, culpable as they are are in some respects, can't take all the blame for the problems of semi-pro rugby. The Clubs continue to make massive mistakes in terms of financial profligacy.

I talked recently to a 45 years old former Premiership standard player who had retired several seasons ago. He told me that one of his ex-clubs, at level 6, offered him £100 per game to return in 2009-10. When he queried why he was being offered such money over the other younger players, he was told that all of them had been promised this amount! £2k a week to get a level 6 club out on the pitch - complete madness!  
An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 11:29
Originally posted by Allan Foster Allan Foster wrote:

FA, you not only have the best signature amongst contributors to these Forums (Fora?) but along with Biff, Matchmaker and others you talk great sense. You continually remind us that the RFU, culpable as they are are in some respects, can't take all the blame for the problems of semi-pro rugby. The Clubs continue to make massive mistakes in terms of financial profligacy.

I talked recently to a 45 years old former Premiership standard player who had retired several seasons ago. He told me that one of his ex-clubs, at level 6, offered him £100 per game to return in 2009-10. When he queried why he was being offered such money over the other younger players, he was told that all of them had been promised this amount! £2k a week to get a level 6 club out on the pitch - complete madness!  
 
Aspatria?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 12:06
Originally posted by Mersey Mersey wrote:

 
Aspatria?

No, a club in the south.
An academic is someone who sees something working perfectly in practice & wonders if it will work in theory
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 13:08
There has been a level 5 club who had decided to do exactly that to regain their status in level 4.  Getting all their 1st XV squad players to sign a 1 year contract and now they havent paid their players for the last 6 games.  Could turn very nasty with over £10k owed to players.
 
Clubs shouldn't attempt to gain a higher status buy throwing money about and promising things it if it cant be sustained.  Youth and developing the club structure should be priority number 1. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 11:01

t'would appear that Old Albanians are flashing the cash this season having signed most of Dunstable's 'pay' players, allegedly even recruiting their former player/coach Lawrence White from Cambridge by offering more money (level 5 > level 3)

there are two possible conclusions to be drawn from this news

1. Dunstable are living within their means

2. Old Albanians are not

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 11:08
Do OAs still have a considerable amount of cash in the bank after their ground move a few years ago? The tie-ins they have with Sarries for them to play some of their A-league matches there must be generating some cash aswell.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 12:24
Originally posted by WalshamViking WalshamViking wrote:

Do OAs still have a considerable amount of cash in the bank after their ground move a few years ago?

Surely we've all learnt by now that you don't use one-off capital receipts for paying players ...Confused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 12:35
Originally posted by WalshamViking WalshamViking wrote:

Do OAs still have a considerable amount of cash in the bank after their ground move a few years ago? The tie-ins they have with Sarries for them to play some of their A-league matches there must be generating some cash aswell.
I think the money/ground at OA's is owned by some sort of trust.....as far as i know the rugby club have never been in a position to spend capital receipts on players......the cash has gone to develop cricket, gym, football, hockey and the club house etc.
I suspect they have just got a new sponsor in.....and yes, Lawrence White has been released by Cambridge .
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 12:48
Well thats good to hear, sounds as if that money will be invested wisely and in the right areas for developing the club as a whole.  As B&S has said they have probably have found some new sponsors.  Sounds like they may be a side to watch this season.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 14:21
Originally posted by WalshamViking WalshamViking wrote:

Well thats good to hear, sounds as if that money will be invested wisely and in the right areas for developing the club as a whole.  As B&S has said they have probably have found some new sponsors.  Sounds like they may be a side to watch this season.
Well......i suppose so if you live in St Albans!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 14:31
Apparently Andy Farrel will be dabbling at OA's this season.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 14:08
Its okay talking about playing budgets but where is the cash coming from?
This year is proving to be challenging from a sponsorship perspective as many companies are delaying their commitments due to the economic climate.
So where will the funding come from when everyone is tightening their belts?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 14:25
fascinating to see an underpaid webmaster - if you did it for free, dwinpenn, then there would be a bit more cash in the pot

seriously, the funding is being cut everywhere and it is players wages that are the easiest area to make savings. That said, clubs need to make themselves appealing places for people to spend money. If a bloke is planning to spend £20 a week on beer, make sure he spends it at your bar and not anywhere else. For sponsors, do they realise that people at the club are more likely to choose them than someone out of yellow pages - put a sound business case to your commercial supporters. Not easy, I grant you, but achievable.

Also, be creative at generating funds. As I've said before, sustainable rugby at level 3 is business. Even in a recession some businesses can flourish. (off to look at your website now.....)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 19:17
To reply to dwinpenn's question, I think just over a third of our annual turnover is sponsorship, the rest is income from commercial events hire & entertainment, club fundraisers, the bar, a nursery (small children not plants), and subscriptions.
We've been doing rather well in terms of commercial hire & entertainment, and the bar this year, with further expansion planned, and bookings well into the future. I think this area has expanded 100% and there is room for much more growth.
We do have a difficult job to fill a hole in our sponsorship this year, with a five figure sponsor pulling out, but apparently the Committee is confident we can replace our sponsors and expand this too.
On the whole I think we're in a good position financially, despite the belt tightening.
I just want to see similar success on the field of play this coming season.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 19:36
I agree with Wireless and champion.
 
At Chinnor we have done well over the past few years with our sponsors being very loyal and helping us significantly as we tried to stay in Nat 3 S (tried twice and failed - time to try again!).
 
We like them have created a much more professional approach to the business of running a rugby club, but last season was a real lesson in the difference between clubs like ours and some of the other sides. London Scottish, Ealing and Rosslyn Park with immense budgets; Dings with smaller budgets but great links to Premiership sides in the area.
 
One great thing this summer has been the Lions tour - 100+ plus people at the club drinking beer and eating food for each match will help a lot I am sure.
 
Hope you like the website - and yes, I am underpaid - in fact so underpaid I dont get paid at all Smile
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