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Poll on the RFU &Yorkshire Carnegie - Event Date: 29 Jul 2019 - 30 Aug 2019

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Poll Question: Do you agree with the RFU allowing YC to play in the Championship
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
134 [87.58%]
2 [1.31%]
12 [7.84%]
1 [0.65%]
1 [0.65%]
3 [1.96%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 12:02
Originally posted by WPL WPL wrote:

Thanks Eddie - I’m the same WPL as on here.

No problem WPL I don't think anyone who has contributed to this thread has any issues with the majority of rugby supporters at Yorkshire Carnegie.
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Big Eddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 12:38
WPL as I think you are possibly the only identified Yorkshire Carnegie supporter on this thread could I ask what you make of this thread and the Leeds thread.

In your view is the criticism levelled at Yorkshire Carnegie and the RFU on Rolling Maul warranted or is it over the top?
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Halliford View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 13:43
At the risk of annoying a few people, surely the route that Plymouth Albion took a few years back is a better comparison than Richmond. I have a lot of good friends at Albion but they did a similar exercise, insolvency post-season to avoid point deduction and relegation. They then found their own money, which is where they differ from YC. Richmond and London Scottish didn’t have insolvencies, technically their Premiership places merged with London Irish. They then started off lower down because they had amateur teams that could join the League structure. London Welsh had two separate companies, the Premiership company became insolvent but the amateur team was already playing lower down so they could start there.

The real difference between YC and the 3 London Teams is the absence of a Club other than the 1st XV. How can a Club be just one team? Discuss!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 14:14
I don’t think that they can but strangely enough Halliford, I think Plymouth Albion fall into that category too. I’m sure there are many others and it seems a bizarre way to operate on a number of levels.

However, some one-team clubs/teams arrange a few fixtures every now and again for their “Development XV”. This translates as a few squad players plus the decent talent from other nearby clubs that might be poached!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 14:51
Halliford I think you will find that Richmond and L Scots were sent to the bottom of the league structure unlike YC or Albion. It had nothing to do with the status of their players. A long time ago now but I remember Richmond ridiculously then went on a more than 60 league game winning streak -effectively ruining the leagues at the lower levels for at least 5 years. I do agree YC is not a club-and yet the RFU is happy to give it £500,000 when proper clubs all over the other divisions are actually doing something positive for rugby. I think we would all love to know the reasoning behind this decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 15:02
I believe that Richmond and Scottish formed new teams to start at the bottom once the professional arms of their respective clubs had been forcibly merged with London Irish.  They each played a season of merit table rugby before being accepted in the Herts & Middlesex leagues, whereas London Welsh Amateurs already existed and effectively became our first team overnight.

It all gets blurred when you try to separate teams, clubs and companies/ businesses.  So far as I'm concerned the professional 1st XV, Amateurs, Occies, Women etc were all different teams representing the same club.  But, as Halliford alludes to, the 1st XV were a separate company - although it was the rest of the club which formed a breakaway company (the CASC).  This differs from Wasps, for example, whose professional arm formed a new entity and a new club (Wasps RFC) by breaking away from the traditional Wasps FC in the mid-late 90s, and are, in fact, a completely separate club from the one that plays at Twyford Avenue.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 17:00
Ten years on October 2009................ Rugby Football Union chairman Martyn Thomas has warned that the professional game in England is in financial jeopardy as it relies too heavily on benefactors to keep clubs afloat as Birmingham & Solihull rugby club were forced into voluntary liquidation. Although a new company was formed, the RFU docked the club 15 points and demanded evidence that all other financial and legal issues were dealt with to their satisfaction by the end of the month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 06:39
From the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters forum by a poster called Competitive Dad in response to a suggestion on Twitter that James Tinknell from Hull Ionians has now been recruited by Yorkshire Carnegie


"Change the name now. Yorkshire no longer wants to be associated with this bunch of ruthless shysters. 
Hull Ionians must be wishing they were from the west of the Pennines. 
THIS STINKS - I'M OUT."

Another die hard Yorkshire Carnegie supporter who first registered on the YC forum in April 2012 and has contributed 790 posts to the Yorkshire Carnegie forum'

Competitive Dad is right it absolutely stinks to high heaven and rugby's governing body is complicit. This is how the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters feel about this scandal.........no wonder those of us who have no connection with Yorkshire Carnegie are outraged.

The RFU has got this so very wrong


Edited by Big Eddie - 14 Aug 2019 at 06:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 08:03
And pray do tell how do we, mere plebs, get a response from the RFU? Sadly, if our clubs don't speak out and demand a response from the RFU we will not hear one word from the boys in the ivory tower.

All I would suggest is, if any of you folk contributing to this thread have any influence within your clubs please go and ask them to press the RFU for a formal response on this debacle. The posts on here, whilst consistently damning of the RFU, and the way in which the Carnegie issue has been handled (and is being handled) is not having any effect. I would also suggest that the more eloquent posters out there might want to consider writing a letter to the Rugby Paper / Other Media expressing your outrage - if sufficient letters land on their steps they might feel compelled to do an investigative report which might, just might, get a response out of the RFU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 08:24
Alternatively you could try to make some form of contract with the people who actually have some say in this matter, i.e the Professional Game Board at the RFU (The Championship is in their remit plus other things)

Can't quite see who is Chairman of PGB but Phil De Glanville (yes that Phil De Glanville) is listed as Senior PGB Representative on the RFU Board, the other person to vent at would be Nigel Melville.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnes Paviores Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 08:55
In the Tincknell case to the best of my knowledge he has not signed a contract with Hull Ionians.

He has not been seen at Brantingham Park since returning from England Counties Tour. I would have only given odds on that he would turn out for Hull Ionians when this whole mess commenced.

Look at his playing history, apart from playing for London Welsh when they vanished, James has played for a number of top Yorkshire sides. He is a true Journeyman.

He will be missed but this one was inevitable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2019 at 07:17
In The Rugby Paper this week interviews with Steve Hill from Richmond, Stephen Bowler from Cambridge and a letter from Tony Dorman all slammed the RFU for its governance of the game and in particular the disgraceful Yorkshire Carnegie decision.

All this strength of feeling and not a word from the RFU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2019 at 13:52
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Rugby Paper interviews with Steve Hill from Richmond, Stephen Bowler from Cambridge and a letter from Tony Dorman all slammed the RFU 

BE

I think Steve Bowler's beef is also a side swipe at the NCA who seem to be mute on these matters. But who of us are committee members / club officers and thus likely to be closer to the detail of RFU / NCA opinions.

We may be 200 partisan souls (in the poll) let's hope that something happens top move the RFU gaze from Premiership rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2019 at 19:26
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

In The Rugby Paper this week interviews with Steve Hill from Richmond, Stephen Bowler from Cambridge and a letter from Tony Dorman all slammed the RFU for its governance of the game and in particular the disgraceful Yorkshire Carnegie decision.

All this strength of feeling and not a word from the RFU.

I don't think that is quite true Eddie. I believe when discussing the YC situation a leading member of the RFU said "I'll have another gin old boy".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taffy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 10:45
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

In The Rugby Paper this week interviews with Steve Hill from Richmond, Stephen Bowler from Cambridge and a letter from Tony Dorman all slammed the RFU for its governance of the game and in particular the disgraceful Yorkshire Carnegie decision.

All this strength of feeling and not a word from the RFU.

If the RFU can't get their own finances in order why should we trust them with a decision on YC's finances? The Sports Minister Nigel Adams is deftly quiet
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 11:05
Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

The Sports Minister Nigel Adams is deftly quiet

This isn't party political as I'd say the same whoever was in government. I'm not sure what you'd expect the sports minister to usefully do? They can grandstand a bit on international bodies (FIFA), but I'm not sure it's in their interests to go starting fights with national governing bodies without evidence. He could maybe ask to meet the RFU to discuss, although again I'm not sure what that would achieve, but fundamentally is it worth the government getting embroiled in an RFU governance matter affecting at the moment 1 club in a league no one in the country watches?*

*as a supporter of an N1 club I know that people do watch obviously, but I'm also not kidding myself that there are many of us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taffy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 11:17
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

The Sports Minister Nigel Adams is deftly quiet

This isn't party political as I'd say the same whoever was in government. I'm not sure what you'd expect the sports minister to usefully do? 
At least give his opinion. He has on the Bury and Bolton football situations
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 12:58
Although this has absolutely nothing to do with the disgraceful governance by the RFU in the YC mess I thought I would comment on your post Taffy because reading it was almost like talking to myself

It may surprise some to know that my given name is not Eddie

................I have had three nicknames in my life, the first was John Bach to distinguish me from my father who was also called John but was a very big man indeed. This nickname may well be lost on some 

My second nickname was also Taffy by which I was known from the age of 11, after leaving Cardigan in West Wales for other parts of the UK. I was known as Taffy up until the age of 25 when I left Scotland to go to New Zealand. I was nick-nameless during my 5 years in New Zealand

Big Eddie didn't appear until I was 36 and visiting my sister in Australia. Whilst looking after my young nieces I asked them what they would like for lunch. The youngest said she would love Spaghetti Bolognese but with a young Aussie accent and difficulty in pronunciation it come out as Biggeddie Bolognese............I instantly acquired the persona  of Big Eddie Bolognese or less formally just Big Eddie 




Edited by Big Eddie - 29 Aug 2019 at 12:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 13:37
I'll repeat, the role of the RFU is to encourage the playing of Rugby Union, it's not their job to axe a club, regardless of the number of supporters they may or may not have.


If the same position affected your club, regardless of which club that is, I'm sure some of the comments made on here would never be uttered.

Clubs survive on a cliff edge and it only takes a slight wind to blow one over. The RFU throw out the life preserver, not a lead weight.
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billesleyexile View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2019 at 13:42
Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by Taffy Taffy wrote:

The Sports Minister Nigel Adams is deftly quiet

This isn't party political as I'd say the same whoever was in government. I'm not sure what you'd expect the sports minister to usefully do? 
At least give his opinion. He has on the Bury and Bolton football situations

Fair, although given the national appetite for league football I'd put that one in the "difficult not to" category I suppose - especially when it's front page news and getting airtime on national non-sports bulletins on TV and radio. Also builds into a narrative of the haves (Premier League clubs and the Nevilles) and the have nots. 

In rugby, I'm not sure that the Leeds stuff is moving the needle much in the Yorkshire Post, never mind the national media. TRP has picked up on it, but TRP's circulation is about 20k from memory. Meanwhile Bury has a population of 189,628 according to Wiki.

I'm not saying he shouldn't btw, I'm just saying that I can't see that he *needs* to.
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