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The dragon becomes a phoenix

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Topic: The dragon becomes a phoenix
Posted By: Mark W-J
Subject: The dragon becomes a phoenix
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 08:30
I know we're no longer a National League club, but here's an article from the Telegraph about London Welsh's plans as the new season begins.  The target is four promotions in five years, to bring us back to LSE Premiership level.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/09/07/london-welsh-rises-ashes-year-wilderness/" rel="nofollow - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/09/07/london-welsh-rises-ashes-year-wilderness/



Replies:
Posted By: DaveP
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 09:17
Hope you have a thoroughly good time coming back up through the leagues. We at London Scottish certainly did. You will meet some great rugby people.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 16:03
Good luck. Rugby Lions are well on their way back, and i'm sure Welsh can do it too.
Have fun.



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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 16:39
I hope London Welsh do come back up, lucky they had the amateur team in the leagues to stop a fall to the very bottom.


Posted By: OldExile
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2017 at 22:08
Have to echo these thoughts, going back to basics, lot of fun and a different perspective. We enjoyed it certainly. Best of luck, hope to see you guys back soon as you can.

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Mad Jocks & Englishmen go out in the mid-day sun


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 18:28
Important win for LW today at Bank of England. 
Bank still top on 35, LW on 34, Royston on 33 - all won 7 lost 1.

Still 14 games to go.

I need to check how many promotion places, I think it is two up to London 3 NW - if so one of these three sides will miss out.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2017 at 09:35
Yes, two go up. Fantastic game at BoE yesterday, won with the last kick of the game. Such an amazing atmosphere around the club at the moment, it must be quite intimidating for opposition sides and really uplifting for our boys playing in front of such big, passionate, vocal crowds every week. Over 700 at home to Wasps last week, and 200+ fans at Roehampton yesterday. Not bad for level nine!


Posted By: dropout22
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2017 at 21:10
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

Yes, two go up. Fantastic game at BoE yesterday, won with the last kick of the game. Such an amazing atmosphere around the club at the moment, it must be quite intimidating for opposition sides and really uplifting for our boys playing in front of such big, passionate, vocal crowds every week. Over 700 at home to Wasps last week, and 200+ fans at Roehampton yesterday. Not bad for level nine!
 
Great to hear LW Doing well, hopefully not too long till we get our exile derby back.
 
On another note. Does anyone know if the LW Griffins are still running.
 
 


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 09:39
Next season, and all future seasons, will see matches with LW at ODP be like gold dust as every club below the national leagues will want to have a go at playing them.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2017 at 11:57
Originally posted by dropout22 dropout22 wrote:

 
On another note. Does anyone know if the LW Griffins are still running.

They played Moseley in September, and I read that the full fixture list was still to be confirmed, but was likely to include Ealing , Richmond & London Scottish.  I don't know whether that's been finalised.


Posted By: cobbler
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 17:38
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Good luck. Rugby Lions are well on their way back, and i'm sure Welsh can do it too.
Have fun.

This comment was made early season when Rugby Lions were looking strong.... take a look at their last 10 results! I think they have stalled for the time being at least.


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 18:12
Originally posted by cobbler cobbler wrote:

Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Good luck. Rugby Lions are well on their way back, and i'm sure Welsh can do it too.
Have fun.

This comment was made early season when Rugby Lions were looking strong.... take a look at their last 10 results! I think they have stalled for the time being at least.

Fair enough - but they have still made very good progress through the leagues. Doubt that's the end of it somehow.


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Surreyben
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 10:15
I made my first visit to London Welsh since they lost Championship status yesterday for their game against Saracens Amateurs. Great atmosphere, good crowd (announced as 193) and Welsh playing some very impressive rugby indeed on their way to a 52-0 win.


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 16:09
They will climb quickly. Surprised they didn't enter the Junior Vase this season.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 07:57
Apparently we've been banned from the cup for a couple of years failing to fulfil a fixture last season.  It's a shame really that clubs at this level don't seem to take it too seriously - on the RFU website over 50% of the results in Round One of the L&SE Junior Vase were walkovers.

We got to the L&SE final a couple of years ago where we lost to Old Cranleighans, and the second stated aim in the five year plan (after winning four promotions) is to win a Twickenham final.



Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2018 at 14:22
Weather permitting (and as of an hour ago the game is still on) we can win promotion tomorrow with victory over Bank of England at ODP.  Bank have had a mini-collapse since we won at Roehampton in November - five defeats in ten - and they're now 18 points behind us in third place with five games remaining.  Conversely, since losing at UCSOBs in round four we've had thirteen consecutive bonus point wins.



Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2018 at 16:15
18 points? Is that all? Sluggards Wink

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 01:07
Latest result.

London Welsh 91 - 0 London French.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 08:00
We haven't conceded a single point in five hours of rugby.  Rearranged game v Bank on Saturday at which promotion can be confirmed.  As long as we get promoted before Cov... Wink


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 09:19
A draw would do you. Actually a 2-4 loss would do you - but as I have some affection for the Crows I hope you win. If you win convincingly, Royston can seal the second promotion place next week at Hendon.

You kick off 15 minutes before Cov - so as long as there are no long stoppages you should just do it.





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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 11:01
I'll still take our promotion over yours Mark, whenever it comes Tongue

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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 12:09
But London Welsh are moving from the narrow confines of county rugby in the Herts/Mddx leagues to the wide vistas of divisional rugby in the London North West 3. 

Think of the extra distances they need to travel. 

And with one more promotion they could be in London North-West 2. 


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 20:51
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

But London Welsh are moving from the narrow confines of county rugby in the Herts/Mddx leagues to the wide vistas of divisional rugby in the London North West 3. 

Think of the extra distances they need to travel. 

And with one more promotion they could be in London North-West 2. 

Let's see how they do against the might of St. Albans and Old Merchant Taylors! And the year after, their RFU cup ban is lifted....


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 16:43
Promotion was confirmed at 4:20 yesterday following a 30-15 win in a very niggly game against Bank of England.  Bank had three yellows - two for their openside, and two for backchat - but they did score the first points we have conceded in five and a half hours of rugby.  That's fifteen consecutive bonus point wins since our defeat at UCSOBs in September, 89 points from a possible 95 with three games remaining, 118 tries and 740 points scored.  The title will be ours if we beat Actonians - coached by former London Welsh & Bedford flanker Florent Rossigneux - at ODP on Saturday.



Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 18:51
Well done Welsh . . . what level will you be playing next year? And is the squad good enough to blitz straight through again?

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Run with it


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 20:06
Next year is Level 8 - London 3NW.  From what we've heard (from referees who officiate at various different levels), the next step up is very similar to what we've been used to next year.  There's a bigger step-up to Level 7, but by no means insurmountable.  But we are planning to strengthen - the profile of the club now means that Welshmen playing at a higher level in the south-east are prepared to step down two or three levels to play for us.  It means a lot more to players to represent the first team than to be a member of a 'junior' team at a big club.


Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2018 at 22:35
Another win, away at Royston, who are also promoted.


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 08:10
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

We haven't conceded a single point in five hours of rugby.  Rearranged game v Bank on Saturday at which promotion can be confirmed.  As long as we get promoted before Cov... Wink

On another thread there is a poster on here who refers to how uneven the the `playing field` is in Rugby at all levels . 

In my opinion it seems a tad unfair that a club who takes voluntary liquidation owing hundreds of thousands to the inland revenue and owing players and staff money are allowed to continue at all. 

The mismanagement and the consequences  goes against everything I believe Rugby stands for.

Posters on here appear to be boasting about the scorelines against small clubs who do manage their finances against all odds and yet still survive. Smashing London French 90 to nil . Seriously what does that have to do with Rugby ?.

In my opinion London Welsh should keep a low profile and not boast about shooting through the leagues and returning to where they were. 


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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 09:02
You are aware that the amateurs existed before the pro team went bust?  They were set-up - just like the amateurs of Saracens, Wasps, Harlequins London Irish - to be a completely separate entity from the professional arm.  To be a proper rugby club, with an amateur ethos.  These players pay to play, just like every other club in the division.  Two of the current first team have been with the club since the amateurs were formed in 2010; four more came through the minis; and roughly half of the regular matchday 18 were with us last season.  The difference we have now is that Welshmen who have been playing at a higher level are stepping down to play for the first team, whereas before they weren't interested in playing for a junior team in a pro club.  Two of the forwards dropped from London One North to play in Herts & Middlesex One, and our scrum-half on Saturday was a 36 year-old ex-Wales U21 fly-half who played for the first team between 2002 and 2007 and came out of retirement to offer his support for the club.

No financial mismanagement, but around 150 patrons, another 300+ regular members, crowds averaging around 300 (highest was 700), pre-match meals for 150 sold out every week, and plenty of income in the bar and the club shop - but the rent at ODP equates to over £1k per week.  In the run-up to every away game our chairman gets a call from the opposition chairman asking how many fans we will bring and how many barrels they should get in.  Everyone has benefited from our away support - how many level nine clubs enjoy up to 200 away fans in their clubhouse?

The difference now is that everybody's pulling together.  We all volunteer - I write the programme, one of the directors mans the shop, another does the PA, our chairman is at the cash-and-carry first thing on Saturday to get supplies for the lunch.  That ex-first team player who wanted to help out by pulling on his boots.  There were pictures on Twitter a few months ago of Sonny Parker sweeping the away changing room at Barnet after the game.  Just like any other junior rugby club.  No airs and graces, just honest people putting in a lot of hard work and enjoying it.  We have ambitions to get back to London Premier (level five) within five years.  Nothing wrong with that - see your signature.

Final point - there isn't a lot of joy on the Championship chatboard these days.  I'm reading a lot of people worrying about the state of the professional game.  The prophets of doom will tell you that your club is going to be the next to plunge into the abyss.  Worcester have just announced losses of £8.1m.  Richmond and London Scottish have been where we are and made it back, but I'm sure they will tell you how much they enjoyed those seasons in the regional leagues they worked their way up.  We're having a great time - the clubs, the people, the fact that the players are so overwhelmed by, and appreciative of, playing in front of big, noisy crowds.  I make no apologies for enjoying it.  The win at Bank will go down in London Welsh folklore as one of the best days in living memory.  We're not crowing - we're just having more fun than we've had in years.  And that's not because we're sticking 90-odd points on the likes of London French.  It's because the likes of London French come along, play their part, never let their heads drop.  They enjoy their rugby; they enjoy their day, they enjoy a few beers afterwards.  That's what it's about - enjoyment.  Proper rugby clubs, proper rugby people.


Posted By: Sedge Tiger
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 12:05
Mark

It is great to hear that London Welsh are baring up well, and things are looking brighter for the future. I for one have many, many great memories of Old Deer Park and wonderful hospitality of Welsh.

Well done to all the volunteers for keeping the club alive.ClapClapClapClapClap

All the best

ST




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Give him one with handles on


Posted By: Pistacio
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 12:35
Out of interest, why did the two forwards drop from London 1 North to play for you? What was the incentive?


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 13:03
Originally posted by Pistacio Pistacio wrote:

Out of interest, why did the two forwards drop from London 1 North to play for you? What was the incentive?

Well, I'm guessing that you know who they are Wink

The second row moved because both clubs share a physio, and this gentleman told the player at the beginning of last summer that London Welsh were on the comeback, and basically did a great job of selling the goals and vision.  It just so happened that this coincided with the player moving close to the Richmond area, so he says he was really keen to get involved.  This player then convinced his front row teammate that any Welsh connection - however tenuous - was good enough for him to also join the ODP revolution, and the colleague followed him down.

I know, it sounds too good to be true - but those are the answers they gave in the interviews for the programme.


Posted By: Pistacio
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 13:23
fair enough. a good pair of lads and its always nice to be part of something special. 


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 14:47
Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !


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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:04
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Sorry, what league are we being forced into?
 
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !

If you look back to the posts on here and other boards from December 2016/ January 2017 you'll see that nobody was comfortable with the way that the pro club went out of business and the business decisions that were taken.  But - and I appreciate that you're struggling with this fairly basic concept - London Welsh Amateurs were a completely separate club.  They were set-up precisely because some members were uncomfortable with the professional direction that the first team was taking some 10-12 years ago, and they created a CASC.  And from that CASC they started a new club - which is the one that exists today.  Yes, they play in red shirts, and they are based at Old Deer Park - and these are the reasons that hundreds of people turn out each week to support them - but they have nothing to do with the poorly run professional outfit.

As for the players - there was a Just Giving page that collected over £40k when the professional club went out of business to ensure that the players weren't deprived of an income two weeks before Christmas.


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:23
Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !

I think a point should be made here in that London Welsh whom are playing in HM1 this season did not stop any club gaining promotion nor did they force their way in. They were already in this league as a quick check on matchbydivision will attest.
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/london-se-division/2016-2017/group/21323#/results

All that has happened here is that the professional club have been liquidated. London Welsh Amateur (which was defined by the RFU as a separate club) merely picked up the pieces and adopted the name of the old club.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Welsh_Amateur


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:35
...and in practical terms as with all such phoenix clubs, will for all time just be regarded as the old club in a new skin by the supporters of other clubs, whatever its legal status. 


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 16:18
But he says grinning, who were the correct club at the division Bell the volunteers and amateurs or the pie in the sky professionals 😬

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: No 7
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 16:59
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by No 7 No 7 wrote:

Any thoughts for the rugby club who miss out on promotion due to London Welsh being forced into their league. Although only for one season and you can denign another team promotion in the league above.

Is there any plan to pay back the money owed to the Government or players who never got paid their salary for playing rugby for London Welsh ......professionals !

I think a point should be made here in that London Welsh whom are playing in HM1 this season did not stop any club gaining promotion nor did they force their way in. They were already in this league as a quick check on matchbydivision will attest.
http://www.englandrugby.com/fixtures-and-results/competitions/london-se-division/2016-2017/group/21323#/results

All that has happened here is that the professional club have been liquidated. London Welsh Amateur (which was defined by the RFU as a separate club) merely picked up the pieces and adopted the name of the old club.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Welsh_Amateur

My apologies I understood that London Welsh had been dropped to the lower leagues and the  

The dragon becomes a phoenix

thread was about their rise from the ashes . Ealing Rugby Club were denied being able to set up an amateur team by the RFU ! Even though the pro side is completely separate and totally funded by Trailfinders.

Maybe it should have been titled  The DRAGON is dead long live the LONDON WELSH AMATEURS. As you pointed out they are completely separate Clubs and one has nothing to do with the other except wearing the same shirt and playing at the same ground . I believe they now have the same name !.

What happened to the `Welsh` players who were in that lower league /. I suppose they just moved down a team ! I assume they have a newly  invigorated influx of players when considering the current seasons scorelines.

Best of luck with the new revived London Welsh Amateurs, probably see you somewhere when the abyss opens up for the Ealing Trailfinders ,hopefully in the very distant future .


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Ambition should be made of sterner stuff.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2018 at 18:43
Here's a good article - written back in October - that explains a lot about what's changed this year; how professional (with a small 'p') the set-up is, and the standards that the coaches are not just setting but expecting from the players.
http://www.therugbyjournal.com/london-welsh/" rel="nofollow - https://www.therugbyjournal.com/london-welsh/


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2019 at 19:59
Final game of the season tomorrow when we host Finsbury Park in the final of the Middlesex Bowl.  The curtain came down on the league season last Saturday when a crowd of roughly 1,000 - including three coachloads of visiting supporters - watched the top of the table clash with Datchworth, which we won 10-7.  Datchworth will join us in London NW2 next season - we won the title with a record of 20 wins, one draw (the now infamous 0-0 away to Old Streetonians on Hackney Marshes in October) and one defeat, at Stevenage, conceding on average a fraction under seven points per game.


Posted By: geralltrugby
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2019 at 22:59
Great for Welsh Mark, good to hear they have managed to keep their support base.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 09:51
Kept it? I think we've grown it!


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 10:28
Congratulations and well done. It restores a lot of my faith in the game to hear that!


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 10:59
Congratulations on another promotion.
Lets hope the extra travel does not put too much strain on resources. :-)




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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 11:04
Well done LW

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Run with it


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 12:18
Good stuff.
Back in the Champ in no time Wink


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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 13:56
I believe we had a bye straight to this Bowl Final as no other team wanted to play us!


Posted By: Stoatgobbler
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2019 at 16:36
London Welsh win the Middlesex Bowl, with a 34-12 win.



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