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Nat 2 South early predictions and Rumours

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Forum Name: National League 2
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Printed Date: 26 May 2019 at 12:25
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Topic: Nat 2 South early predictions and Rumours
Posted By: Clueless like most
Subject: Nat 2 South early predictions and Rumours
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 14:35
So 10 weeks or so with nothing to do but speculate. We are not sure but the level transfer looks to be Hinkley again. They are a mid table Nat 2 side so does this make them relegation material? For what it is worth and that is nothing here are my pre-pre-early season predictions.

Top 5 not in order as that would be way too bold. (3rd place has been promoted the past 2 seasons so Henley and TJs finished equal 3rd on points. Could the winners be one of them?)

1. Esher. They should fare better than Old Albanians did win they took the drop. They will be in for a shock when they meet other ambitious teams listed below.
2. TJs. Season 3 in the league and they are now a top 5 side for sure. They are scoring tries and if they hold on to that squad with a few new signings up front, they will be up there. They beat every team in the league and beat Taunton and Henley home and away. They lost just the once at home to Rams. They will need to be more disciplined winning the yellow card table last season.
3. Henley. Will be keen to keep that squad together. They finished on equal on points with TJs just a single point off the play off game although TJs won more games than them and Canterbury. Both of these teams will keep Esher on their toes and will be in the mix for sure.
4. I'm going to go for an improving Old Albanians here. They beat the Rams (As did TJs) but they could not cover a load of injuries mid season. If they stay healthy, I think they will be up there next season.
5. Another bolter for me. I think Tauntons team is a bit passed it's promotion chance. Too many nearly seasons may well give them nightmares when things get close. My call is an improving young worthing team if they can sustain injuries and playing away.

The Bottom 3

I am brave enough to call this one

Last place Westcliff. I am sure they will have a great time but to play Nat 2, They will be drained of funds, and the long journeys and injuries will take a heavy toll. 30 games plus 2 or 3 warm up games will be too much for a runner up London team.

Second from bottom. Sutton and Epsom  You just need to see the 1000+ points conceded by Guernsey to know This is a step too far unless the ex Esher coach can pull off some magic and draft in 7 or so players with greater experience.

Last relegation slot for me will be Old Reds. Two years of scraping by might just come to an end this season but the battle may well be with Dings for survival.

Ohh well enjoy the shopping trips and DIY. Not long left before pre season. 






Replies:
Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 21:51
I would say the top spot will be between

Esher, Henley and TJs

As for the bottom 3 - not knowing anything at all about Westcliff or Sutton & Epsom I expect them to struggle unless they have money.

As for the 14th place

Bournemouth, back at this level - I spotted a couple of Bournemouth people at Worthing v Taunton, were they scouts or just rugby supporters wanting to watch good flowing rugby - I know not, could have enough to stay up

Hinckley - again I know little about them

Old Reds - usually pick up enough points at home to survive

Dings - have the advantage of a plastic pitch at home



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RAID ON


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 14:49
Good call on Bournemouth but I think I will stick to Old Reds.


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 16:22
The three promoted sides are definitely going to be up against it, as it is obviously a huge step up in quality, and the depth of squads will be sorely tested, however the one sided play off result suggests to me that the LSE league may well have been stronger than the SW league which could make Bournemouth favourite for the drop.
Westcliff rely on home grown talent and it's rumoured they may have lost a couple of players to the ambitious Rochford, my own club Sutton also gained promotion with a relatively small squad, but the best bit of pre season business we've done is retaining the coaching team of Mike Schmidt (Ex Rotherham & Canada) and Paul Hodgson (Ex London Irish & England). I have heard nothing from the club as yet but I think we're all hoping Paul may still have contacts at Irish so as to introduce some dual registered players to bolster our squad. No illusions from us about how tough next season will be, but we're going to enjoy the ride, already planning some away trips. Beer


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 19:48
Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:


The three promoted sides are definitely going to be up against it, as it is obviously a huge step up in quality, and the depth of squads will be sorely tested, however the one sided play off result suggests to me that the LSE league may well have been stronger than the SW league which could make Bournemouth favourite for the drop.
Westcliff rely on home grown talent and it's rumoured they may have lost a couple of players to the ambitious Rochford, my own club Sutton also gained promotion with a relatively small squad, but the best bit of pre season business we've done is retaining the coaching team of Mike Schmidt (Ex Rotherham & Canada) and Paul Hodgson (Ex London Irish & England). I have heard nothing from the club as yet but I think we're all hoping Paul may still have contacts at Irish so as to introduce some dual registered players to bolster our squad. No illusions from us about how tough next season will be, but we're going to enjoy the ride, already planning some away trips. Beer


I hope to make the Sutton & Epsom v Worthing match, always try to go to as many as possible - especially places I've not been before.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 06:31
DRs are not a good way to go if you read some of the discussions on RM. They tend to play without training much if at all. They upset the rest of the players too. I think there will be another big split in the league this year as the bottom seems to be getting weaker year on year.


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 09:06
C.L.M. although there may be some truth in your statement, the success of dual registered players can be positive if the players are motivated and the clubs handle them properly, Joe Marler, Joe Marchant and James Chisholm were all very popular and committed during their spells with Worthing, and my own son who was also on loan at Worthing stayed for a further five seasons after being released by Quins because he loved the club.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 12:20
Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:


C.L.M. although there may be some truth in your statement, the success of dual registered players can be positive if the players are motivated and the clubs handle them properly, Joe Marler, Joe Marchant and James Chisholm were all very popular and committed during their spells with Worthing, and my own son who was also on loan at Worthing stayed for a further five seasons after being released by Quins because he loved the club.


Have to agree CD - we have had a number of others recently who have also given their all for the Raiders. Can only think of 1 who didn't.

DRs can be a good thing at N2 level where they are strictly limited, the downside is that they are often unavailable due to A team commitments and you don't always get players in the positions you might like.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 14:03
I also think that some of the 19 year olds released to clubs, are not actually good enough yet to be starters at Nat 2. 


Posted By: Surreyben
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 16:22
I suspect Sutton & Epsom have a reasonable chance of staying up next season - excellent coaching staff with good contacts and they often pull in some good players. 

I also suspect Barnes will finish top half next season.

Top three - Esher, Tonbridge Juddians/Henley Hawks (not sure which way round they will come).

Bottom three - Westcliff, Old Redcliffians, Dings Crusaders/Bournemouth.


Posted By: Friendly prop
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 18:19
Originally posted by Surreyben Surreyben wrote:

I suspect Sutton & Epsom have a reasonable chance of staying up next season - excellent coaching staff with good contacts and they often pull in some good players. 

I also suspect Barnes will finish top half next season.

Top three - Esher, Tonbridge Juddians/Henley Hawks (not sure which way round they will come).

Bottom three - Westcliff, Old Redcliffians, Dings Crusaders/Bournemouth.
Interesting you think Bournemouth will be in the bottom 3 after their convincing winning of SW3 losing only 1 match. Do you think there is such a massive gulf between levels?


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"Animo concipere non possum quo palto hoc pervease exeat."


Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 09 May 2019 at 19:12
Now my 5p worth!!

Top 3:

Esher/Henley/TJ’s

Bottom 3:

Westcliffe, Bournemouth, Dings

When Bournemouth were here last they went straight back down. It was a close call, but I have a feeling that Sutton will stay up just along with Old Reds,

Enjoy your summer everyone, enjoying the lovely sun down here in Cornwall, living the dream!!

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 12 May 2019 at 23:11
i've come to this a bit late......much to respond to.

1.  Nick......i will offer you 2p for your opinion......generous I think Wink
2. Bournemouth......are a bit of a yo-yo side IMO.......been up twice before and straight back down.  Can't remember which posters said what.....but in my experience the side promoted from the SW is consistently weaker than its SE equivalent.....evidenced perhaps, by the playoff result again this year ?
Hence I place Bournemouth last despite their great record last year. 
3.  I also cannot see past the promoted sides as potential relegation candidates.  Where i will diverge is with Old Reds......who I think are a decent side but with three or four very good players.  If they keep them all I think they will easily stay up......also if these players stay fit.  Personally, I thought that Bird on the wing, young Hewitt at 10, Ethan Doyle at 8 and a lad called something like Pursall at 4, might all have had a case for being in a best of our league side.  Apologies to Reds fans if I have these names wrong.....I;ve seen them play 4 times now and they are very good. 
4.  Given their resources and ambition, I place TJ's as favourites for the title.  Hawks look good too and have a good rcord of getting out of this league and may get second, despite losing home and away against the mighty Raiders next year TongueWink  In many ways you expect the team coming down to be favourites, but history shows that they nearly always struggle with the competitiveness in our league.  
Esher may buck that trend if they keep their squad together ?
5.  999......if the Crawley boys visit Sutton and Epsom......two things.....firstly get your SATNAV sorted up front and secondly, unless things have changed, if you want a beer, get a couple of trays and walk them out to the pitch, which as I recall, is about 7 miles from the clubhouse and bar (Old Hooker please also note.....carry Malbeq/Rioja). 
6.  i did have some other points......but i've forgotten them.  it's an age thing......ho hum.
7.  Oops.....yes.....agree that Titans are past their sell by date.  They have had a great run without quite getting over the line.....I suspect that that generation of players are coming tom an end now ?  
Will 'donkey' Kingdom continue ?  



Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 07:44
A slight exaggeration Darth, our clubhouse and first team pitch is only separated by a pitch length, and we now have a little pop up bar by the stand selling tins and bottled beer, see you next season.


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 12:49
It's probably just a Raiders thing Dave......there are a few of us who get a little anxious if there is too much distance between the rugby and and the bar Tongue  

It's been a long time since our two sides have been at the same level, so it will be good to watch your lot again.  I look forward to it.


Posted By: MCNRY
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 13:04
It looks like with a change of management and relegation from National 1, Esher will lose a few of their top players, recruitment let them down last year, as to how they approach this year will be interesting. Expect a very open National 2 South race next season!


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 13:38
Rumours that the ex England and British Lion flanker Peter Winterbottom is to be involved in the revamped coaching team at Esher, can anyone from Esher confirm if this is true ?


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 13:47
I am not from Esher, but it is on their web site and was reported on the nat 1 forum earlier in the season.

http://www.esherrugby.com/news-blog/addittional-coaching-line-up.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.esherrugby.com/news-blog/addittional-coaching-line-up.html


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 13:50
Peter Winterbottom was announced as DOR at Esher a few weeks ago. Talking to a few Esher supporters at their last home game of the season they are expecting their side to be significantly strengthened for next season as they seem to expect a return to Nat1


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 18:26
Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:


A slight exaggeration Darth, our clubhouse and first team pitch is only separated by a pitch length, and we now have a little pop up bar by the stand selling tins and bottled beer, see you next season.


CD - that's good to know - not sure who supplies your beer, but a few bottles of porter and/or stout (not Guinness) would go down well.

Not sure about Darth's satnav comment as he knows we normally go by train, doing lunch and a number of beers before, during and after the game.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Old Hooker
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 18:39
Darth
As long as it is Red I am a Happy Old Hooker. Currently we have a bottle of SA Black Jack shiraz breathing nicely.
Chin Chin


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another one against the head


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 19:10
R99, nearest station Cheam, fifteen minute walk or a £5 cab from the cab office in the station.Thumbs Up


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 13 May 2019 at 22:50
nice start Dave......but the station is easy enough......best pubs and eateries close to the ground would be more welcome i suspect ?


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 09:28
Just be aware S&E entrance is hidden between a couple of houses and if driving your satnav (well mine anyway) tells you to turn just too late to do so - https://goo.gl/maps/jBvVs7HMn669yNqv9

Only been there once but lovely clubhouse, looks like it ought to be a vicarage - lots of lovely memorabilia in the upstairs room where players eat 


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 10:35
That was my original point Dad......I think my first (and perhaps only ?) trip to Sutton was 2004-5 season, there might have been one after ?
I did not have a satnav and drove past the entrance more than once, completely unawares. 

If that is the right year, I think we finished second but lost a playoff, maybe to Bridgwater......a very sad day.  Sutton were relegated I think and we scored rather a lot of points in the Rugby Lane fixture.....one of our players broke an arm ?   A nice flat pitch as I recall, but very hard on the day.  
I'll see it again soon Smile


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 11:10
We usually research the immediate area for the basics (food and good beer) - any recommendations will be welcomed

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RAID ON


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 14:06
R99, if you're not eating at the pre match lunch at the club, the Olde Red Lion in Cheam Village is a good starting point, normally a decent selection of guest bitters like Tea, Timoth Taylors, Harveys or Wimbledon Common to supplement the London Pride and Doom Bar, foods alright to.


Posted By: Leo T Lion
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 14:55
Hello, when are the fixtures usually published. Would like to try and make some plans.



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Leo The Lion


Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 15:47
Originally posted by Leo T Lion Leo T Lion wrote:

Hello, when are the fixtures usually published. Would like to try and make some plans.

Last seasons came out early June.

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Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 17:43
Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:

R99, if you're not eating at the pre match lunch at the club, the Olde Red Lion in Cheam Village is a good starting point, normally a decent selection of guest bitters like Tea, Timoth Taylors, Harveys or Wimbledon Common to supplement the London Pride and Doom Bar, foods alright to.


Thanks, do you happen to know anywhere that does a decent porter or stout?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 14 May 2019 at 21:56
It is great to hear from Bournemouth and Sutton posters so early......hopefully they will continue to contribute in the season ahead,,,,,,it makes it much more fun IMO .   Is there anybody out there from either Westcliffe or Hinckley ?  


Posted By: Trench Foot
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 12:50
Westcliff (without the e, as in cliff).
The question is: What would you like to know?


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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers


Posted By: stato
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 13:08
Hello from Hinckley!


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 15 May 2019 at 16:17
Welcome from me at least chaps......it is always good to have as many opinions and contributions as possible, particularly as regards new teams about which very little is known.

Some thoughts about how you think next season will go might be interesting ?   
Conversely, I think that for Sutton and Westcliff this is a first visit to level 4, so ask any questions you want and somebody will have an answer for you.

I recommend the weekly prediction league run by Camquin.....good fun even for those of us that are not that good at it.   


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 11:29
Just getting in to the National 2 Forum after several years on the National 1 page. Nice to see people topping Esher for the top 3, the plan is certainly to bounce back up. Most of the squad are staying, a few have been announced already. I know of 4 leaving, Owen Waters back to Luffbra as expected, Paul Roberts retiring and joining the coaching team. 6 new players to be announced shortly as Peter Winterbottom and Chris Wilkins aim to strengthen the squad. Recruitment this summer promises to be light years ahead of last summer! More details as they are confirmed.

Looking forward to some new trips this year, Dings will be new and it’s many years since we visited Clifton or Old Reds. Hopefully away to Redruth will not be in January! Renewing friendship over a bottle of claret with Old Hooker is an enticing thought !


Posted By: Leo T Lion
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 15:50
First time poster but excited about Bournemouth's new challenge. Interesting to read that some see us struggling. Would be a real contrast in seasons if we were to but the step up is no doubt a big one. Will be a good gauge of the squad as we play Bournville with their new signings, The Rams tournament and Old Elthamians in pre-season. 



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Leo The Lion


Posted By: Old Hooker
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 15:56
Welcome back Halliford. the Claret is breathing as we speak !!!!!!
Look forward to catching up. Chin Chin


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another one against the head


Posted By: Surreyben
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 16:33
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

i've come to this a bit late......much to respond to.

2. Bournemouth......are a bit of a yo-yo side IMO.......been up twice before and straight back down.  Can't remember which posters said what.....but in my experience the side promoted from the SW is consistently weaker than its SE equivalent.....evidenced perhaps, by the playoff result again this year ?
Hence I place Bournemouth last despite their great record last year. 

 
The last time Bournemouth were in National Two South, they had a two season stay not one - 2012/13 and 2013/14.


Posted By: Surreyben
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 16:37
Originally posted by Friendly prop Friendly prop wrote:

Interesting you think Bournemouth will be in the bottom 3 after their convincing winning of SW3 losing only 1 match. Do you think there is such a massive gulf between levels?
Massive gulf between South West Premier and London & SE Premier? Not necessarily, but there is possibly long term a larger number of stronger teams in LSE Prem compared to SW Prem. I just think that Sutton & Epsom have a history of strong recruiting over the past three/four years and renowned coaching staff which would help in recruiting - and therefore give them a stronger chance of staying up. Generally speaking though the gulf between National Two South and Level Five is pretty big unless a club has a) lots of money and b) real strength in depth. 


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 16 May 2019 at 17:01
Yes I will be running it again this year


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 08:15
Originally posted by stato stato wrote:

Hello from Hinckley!
  If any of you Suvvners are thinking of digging out the old passport and heading North then Hinckley is a great club to visit.  Although it was one of our longer journeys I was gutted to find they had been level transferred and yet we have to return to Leicester Lions and now Luffbra, at both of which one needs to leave one's soul at the gate.  Give them a visit - A friendly and vibrant club.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 09:06
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Originally posted by stato stato wrote:

Hello from Hinckley!
  If any of you Suvvners are thinking of digging out the old passport and heading North then Hinckley is a great club to visit.  Although it was one of our longer journeys I was gutted to find they had been level transferred and yet we have to return to Leicester Lions and now Luffbra, at both of which one needs to leave one's soul at the gate.  Give them a visit - A friendly and vibrant club.


Looking forward to venturing north to Hinckley, good to hear your endorsement.

Also having visited Loughborough I totally agree.

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RAID ON


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 10:13
It may not be settled yet.........


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 10:20
Backrowb........which dale are from.......Tyne or Wharfe ?   The former look like they might be getting ready to challenge for a level 3 place again ?

Luffbra....ha !   Weird place.  Being the gracious suvvern gents that we are, we managed to locate the 'entrance gate' and pay, although we could have watched from anywhere for free I think.  Good rugby.  Small crowd.  DIY atmosphere.......which we are quite good at Wink


Posted By: stato
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 10:45
What do you know French Connection?


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 11:06
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Backrowb........which dale are from.......Tyne or Wharfe ?   The former look like they might be getting ready to challenge for a level 3 place again ?

Luffbra....ha !   Weird place.  Being the gracious suvvern gents that we are, we managed to locate the 'entrance gate' and pay, although we could have watched from anywhere for free I think.  Good rugby.  Small crowd.  DIY atmosphere.......which we are quite good at Wink
I'm from neither, but my blood runs green Wink    I think many teams want a top 6 finish, not sure how many want a top 1 finish though


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 13:07
Originally posted by stato stato wrote:

What do you know French Connection?

No official announcement from the RFU yet re level transfer.......
Who will it be?


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 13:13
Have Hinckley volunteered? (In which case there shouldn't be much of a delay) OR Has a different club, or Hinckley for that matter, been asked to cross the border and appealed?? in which case it could drag on


Posted By: stato
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 15:33
Hinckley have not volunteered, but have been planning for it. 


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 17:21
No one from the Midlands has ever volunteered to go South and probably never will. The travelling is much harder, you lose lots of local derbies and therefore revenue, and the rugby is faster,more open and generally better.
It is always the kiss of death when promoted teams are sent south, although a decent well established N2N side such as Hinckley could survive and even surprise a few people.


Posted By: Club_Tropicana
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 18:00
Leicester lions to go south apparently

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In Club Tropicana the drinks are free.....


Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 19:21
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Just getting in to the National 2 Forum after several years on the National 1 page. Nice to see people topping Esher for the top 3, the plan is certainly to bounce back up. Most of the squad are staying, a few have been announced already. I know of 4 leaving, Owen Waters back to Luffbra as expected, Paul Roberts retiring and joining the coaching team. 6 new players to be announced shortly as Peter Winterbottom and Chris Wilkins aim to strengthen the squad. Recruitment this summer promises to be light years ahead of last summer! More details as they are confirmed.

Looking forward to some new trips this year, Dings will be new and it’s many years since we visited Clifton or Old Reds. Hopefully away to Redruth will not be in January! Renewing friendship over a bottle of claret with Old Hooker is an enticing thought !


Welcome back Halliford,
Hope to catch you when we play Esher home or away or even both matches?!, living down in Cornwall now, don’t let Darth Raider talk you into it that I now support Redruth!

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: Friendly prop
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 19:45
Originally posted by Club_Tropicana Club_Tropicana wrote:

Leicester lions to go south apparently


Correct just seen the 2N fixture list & No LL

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"Animo concipere non possum quo palto hoc pervease exeat."


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 20:29
Well if that's true, there's no chance of me getting to any away fixtures travelling down from Scotland, but I do enjoy the banter and the predictions leagues. 


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 22:29
Leicester Lions are on Nat 2 South fixtures


Posted By: SKalpy
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 22:49
Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

No one from the Midlands has ever volunteered to go South and probably never will. The travelling is much harder, you lose lots of local derbies and therefore revenue, and the rugby is faster,more open and generally better.
It is always the kiss of death when promoted teams are sent south, although a decent well established N2N side such as Hinckley could survive and even surprise a few people.

FC

That statement contains three facts, namely the travelling, loss of local derbies and the loss of revenue. Having seen the standard of Nat 2 South to say the rugby is faster and generally better is complete b@ll@cks.  I find it more open as there seems to be a lack of defensive structures, but if that is what the spectators want then good on you. In the north, if we wish to see rugby played that way we generally go and watch a League match.Wink


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 22:58
We were sent to N2S in 2010/11 and it was certainly faster and more open then. And as every N2N side sent there in the last 10 years bar Ampthill have been relegated it's a fair assumption that it's better as well...never mind the fact that the south side almost always wins the promotion playoff. They are indeed facts, as opposed to alternative facts.


Posted By: Alderman
Date Posted: 17 May 2019 at 23:28
Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

We were sent to N2S in 2010/11 and it was certainly faster and more open then. And as every N2N side sent there in the last 10 years bar Ampthill have been relegated it's a fair assumption that it's better as well...never mind the fact that the south side almost always wins the promotion playoff. They are indeed facts, as opposed to alternative facts.


Not knowing the history, I am a bit puzzled that Ampthill was ever in N2N as it is a Bedfordshire club...


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 00:41
Bedfordshire is in East Midlands and so in Midlands division and hence N2N.
So Luton would be placed in N2N were it ever promoted that far.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: honestinjun
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 07:41
My how our memories are short...Nat 2 S is such a highly competitive league below the pretty obvious front runners. With Rams and Canterbury following an illustrious list of southern teams into Nat 1, the top three look likely to be Esher , Henley and TJs (by the way Barnes too beat them at their place 😀), have also heard locally of Esher’s resolve to power back up at the first attempt. BUT below that it will be closer than ever. Barnes do know all three promoted sides, and those of you that don’t should prepare to be surprised! Below the top three any of the combatants can (and will) beat each other..there were only 4 points between 6th and 11th...Bees won 10 games and were relegated in 14th place whilst Clifton rested comfortably in 6th with only 12 wins.. even Guernsey won 8 games, and if they had not been crippled with injuries I am sure would have had a much better start which would have seen them survive. The moral of my story is that I think the new sides promoted will all do fine and surprise those that look down on them as cannon fodder...big mistake...it’s going to be another cracking and close season between 4th and 16th...and beware a windy cold day at Westcliff !

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HonestInjun


Posted By: fatbear
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 10:38
Originally posted by Alderman Alderman wrote:

Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

We were sent to N2S in 2010/11 and it was certainly faster and more open then. And as every N2N side sent there in the last 10 years bar Ampthill have been relegated it's a fair assumption that it's better as well...never mind the fact that the south side almost always wins the promotion playoff. They are indeed facts, as opposed to alternative facts.


Not knowing the history, I am a bit puzzled that Ampthill was ever in N2N as it is a Bedfordshire club...
 
And South of Watford Gap.......


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 11:19
So Leicester Lions then ?  That is curious.......can anybody provide an explanation as to why it is them and not Hinckley ?

I ask this (particularly) as Hinckley were level transferred in season 2010/11 I believe, and at that time Leicester Lions were in the same league, although i think, just promoted ? 
I can only assume that the criteria deployed in the decision making process must have changed since that date ?   
I had thought that it was predicated on total mileage to all opposition venues and that based upon that, it would be Hinckley again ?

Surprised and somewhat confused I am.  

 


Posted By: oldman
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 11:45
Probably LL volunteer to change leagues, but have no idea why.

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oldman


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 13:16
I'm pretty much certain that they didn't volunteer for the reasons that I've already given. The total travel mileage for N2S saw Lions having 30 more miles to go than Hinckley - a very tiny difference...and apparently there's a little known rule that if the difference is less than 3% (I think) then it's discounted and they're classed as the same...and the next criterion is that the side finishing higher have the choice of whether to go or stay.....and as Hinckley finished just above Lions, then off Lions go. That also explains why the promoted sides always go South - all the teams already in N2N are classed as finishing higher than them...as happened to Hinckley in 2010.
I think that Lions will survive, but they'll find it tough as all Midland sides have. There are already some rumours that a few of their players don't fancy the extra travelling and time commitment. We'll see.


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 18 May 2019 at 13:55
Thanks for that FC........some interesting if arcane detail on league regs.  It clears thingds up for me though.

Best of luck to LL of course, but they will do well to buck the trend for transferees.   I see that they are away to TJ's first up, who are expected to be one of our stronger sides next season, so they will get an early read on their prospects.   

I think LL have an ex-Raider playing at full back.......Alex 'scrappy' WilHuckleberryson by name.  It will be good to watch him again.  He is useful in the air TongueWink


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 08:49
The fixtures are out, there's a link on Wharfedales website to all of the National leagues, tough start for Sutton, first three games Henley, Tonbridge Juddians and Old Albanians, a very steep learning curve me thinks !


Posted By: Surreyben
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 09:57
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Bedfordshire is in East Midlands and so in Midlands division and hence N2N.
So Luton would be placed in N2N were it ever promoted that far.
 
Luton have had one season in Level Four and played in what is now National Two South for that season - upon relegation they went into what is now London & South-East Premier.


Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 10:04
Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:

The fixtures are out, there's a link on Wharfedales website to all of the National leagues, tough start for Sutton, first three games Henley, Tonbridge Juddians and Old Albanians, a very steep learning curve me thinks !


Hope to see you at Dry Leas for the first game.

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 15:24
I see the fixtures have a new team "Bury St Edmonds" in National 2 South .......... spelling Timothy

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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: chinese dave
Date Posted: 19 May 2019 at 20:59
Pre season logistics underway, hotels already booked for the away matches at Clifton, Redruth and Taunton and looking forward to hosting you all at Sutton & Epsom, no idea how we'll do but we're going to enjoy the ride anyway, looking forward to the first game at Henley a ground i've always enjoyed visiting. Beer




Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 20 May 2019 at 08:43
Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:

Pre season logistics underway, hotels already booked for the away matches at Clifton, Redruth and Taunton and looking forward to hosting you all at Sutton & Epsom, no idea how we'll do but we're going to enjoy the ride anyway, looking forward to the first game at Henley a ground i've always enjoyed visiting. Beer




You will see a lot of changes to the ground since your last visit.

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: Leo T Lion
Date Posted: 21 May 2019 at 11:38
Taunton A
Worthing H
Henley A
Judds H

This is a test of our boys for sure. Welcome to Nat 2!!


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Leo The Lion


Posted By: Old Hooker
Date Posted: 21 May 2019 at 15:25
Welcome Leo from Bournmouth and Congrats on Promotion. Since you were last with us it has become a league which is very hard to predict as the standard is so good. If and I mean If you can retain a relatively injury free squad, you will be in good stead come March April next year, Sadly that is very rare.!!
Good luck


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another one against the head


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 21 May 2019 at 16:57
Welcome indeed Leo.......the fixtures secretary has not been kind to Bournemouth.   you will of course, also finish the season with the reverse of these four fixtures.

Win those four and level 3 beckons Smile


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 21 May 2019 at 19:58
Originally posted by The Hawks The Hawks wrote:

Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:

Pre season logistics underway, hotels already booked for the away matches at Clifton, Redruth and Taunton and looking forward to hosting you all at Sutton & Epsom, no idea how we'll do but we're going to enjoy the ride anyway, looking forward to the first game at Henley a ground i've always enjoyed visiting. Beer




You will see a lot of changes to the ground since your last visit.

And 15 quid to get in !


Posted By: paddym
Date Posted: 21 May 2019 at 20:05
Originally posted by Clueless like most Clueless like most wrote:

Originally posted by The Hawks The Hawks wrote:

Originally posted by chinese dave chinese dave wrote:

Pre season logistics underway, hotels already booked for the away matches at Clifton, Redruth and Taunton and looking forward to hosting you all at Sutton & Epsom, no idea how we'll do but we're going to enjoy the ride anyway, looking forward to the first game at Henley a ground i've always enjoyed visiting. Beer




You will see a lot of changes to the ground since your last visit.

And 15 quid to get in !

Plus parking if I remember rightly! 


Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 21 May 2019 at 23:55
£14 to get in for non-members, car park free, good value I say 😂😂

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: Wigwam
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 07:44
Originally posted by The Hawks The Hawks wrote:

£14 to get in for non-members, car park free, good value I say 😂😂
 
The perceived high cost does not seem to deter the faithful


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Pace Power Perfection


Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 09:43
Originally posted by Wigwam Wigwam wrote:

Originally posted by The Hawks The Hawks wrote:

£14 to get in for non-members, car park free, good value I say 😂😂
 
The perceived high cost does not seem to deter the faithful

It's not a perceived high cost, it's an actual high cost. Pretty sure it's the highest in the league! At least you save money once in the ground, as it's a devils own job to get a beer Smile


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Enjoying life!


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 11:11
I wonder if we can get a cost for every ground entry up here to compare?

Henley £14 .......


Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 11:24
Rams was £10 (incl program) last season. 

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Enjoying life!


Posted By: Clueless like most
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 11:44
I visited most clubs. £10 including program was the norm I think.


Posted By: Darth Raider
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 12:18
Nick......I know parking in the field is free,  but there used to be a significant charge for parking in the ground.......has that changed ?  Or are you talking about the Recreation Ground now.....hee-hee.

Jester......re: beer purchase......that's why it's called Dry Leas WinkWink

Clueless..........£8 for members, £10 for non-members at Raiders.  Too cheap IMO but I am probably a lone voice there Tongue


Posted By: The BS7 Crusader
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 14:49
I would love to jump on the band wagon against Mr hawkes about the clubs ridiculous £14 entry and £2.10 vile coffee. however I don’t have a leg to stand on as I have been hopping the back gate up the Field for years. Horrible rugby club annoying commentator annoying the pawpaw out of you through out the game Larger stinks. Horrible shame as the other NS teams in that area are very accommodating, anyway see you next year hawkes keep the back fences low.

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WORD OUT


Posted By: RedPete
Date Posted: 22 May 2019 at 20:16
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Welcome indeed Leo.......the fixtures secretary has not been kind to Bournemouth.   you will of course, also finish the season with the reverse of these four fixtures.

Win those four and level 3 beckons Smile
 
I don't think it works quite like that, Bournemouth's last 3 fixtures are Sutton & Epsom (H), Old Redcliffians (A) and Taunton (H); though you always end up with the reverse of your first fixture as the last.
What struck me about the fixtures is the first 16 are without a free week, not even one for the RWC Final. I would have thought that this could have been facilitated by starting on 31st August.


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Schadenfreude - such a big word for something so small-minded


Posted By: sidelined
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 06:00
Originally posted by RedPete RedPete wrote:

Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Welcome indeed Leo.......the fixtures secretary has not been kind to Bournemouth.   you will of course, also finish the season with the reverse of these four fixtures.

Win those four and level 3 beckons Smile
 
I don't think it works quite like that, Bournemouth's last 3 fixtures are Sutton & Epsom (H), Old Redcliffians (A) and Taunton (H); though you always end up with the reverse of your first fixture as the last.
What struck me about the fixtures is the first 16 are without a free week, not even one for the RWC Final. I would have thought that this could have been facilitated by starting on 31st August.

Totally agree about the RWC Final, some thought should have been given to that. 
The 16 straight weeks can be an absolute killer especially for the newly promoted teams who are used to at least a couple of weekends off. 
If I remember rightly Barnstaple's first season in Nat2 was a straight 16 and started with games against OEs, Redruth and Canterbury. Very tough.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 10:25
Originally posted by sidelined sidelined wrote:

Originally posted by RedPete RedPete wrote:

Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Welcome indeed Leo.......the fixtures secretary has not been kind to Bournemouth.   you will of course, also finish the season with the reverse of these four fixtures.

Win those four and level 3 beckons Smile

 
I don't think it works quite like that, Bournemouth's last 3 fixtures are Sutton & Epsom (H), Old Redcliffians (A) and Taunton (H); though you always end up with the reverse of your first fixture as the last.
What struck me about the fixtures is the first 16 are without a free week, not even one for the RWC Final. I would have thought that this could have been facilitated by starting on 31st August.


Totally agree about the RWC Final, some thought should have been given to that. 
The 16 straight weeks can be an absolute killer especially for the newly promoted teams who are used to at least a couple of weekends off. 
If I remember rightly Barnstaple's first season in Nat2 was a straight 16 and started with games against OEs, Redruth and Canterbury. Very tough.


Always seemed to be a straight 16 weeks before Christmas until 2015 when RWC final was a week off.
From memory it reverted to a straight 16 games the following year, think had a week break in 2017? Definitely had a break in 2018.

I quite agree regarding starting on 31st August, but suspect there may be something in the rules that says start of season is first Saturday in September?

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RAID ON


Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 11:08
Originally posted by The BS7 Crusader The BS7 Crusader wrote:

I would love to jump on the band wagon against Mr hawkes about the clubs ridiculous £14 entry and £2.10 vile coffee. however I don’t have a leg to stand on as I have been hopping the back gate up the Field for years. Horrible rugby club annoying commentator annoying the pawpaw out of you through out the game Larger stinks. Horrible shame as the other NS teams in that area are very accommodating, anyway see you next year hawkes keep the back fences low.



It was a management idea to raise the gate from £12 to £14 which includes a programme. I know Redruth charge £10, extra to sit in the stand, extra for programme and extra to park your car. Always one who try to climb over and not pay, we all need money to run these clubs, so not paying doesn’t help us, I always pay when I go to a match, look at Barnes, I quite easily get away without paying, but I found the gentleman who was at a table selling tickets, how would your club feel I didn’t pay at Dings, I guess that’s your club you belong to??, or don’t they need the money now they sold ‘Dog poo corner’ it was know as!

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: The Hawks
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 11:15
Originally posted by Darth Raider Darth Raider wrote:

Nick......I know parking in the field is free,  but there used to be a significant charge for parking in the ground.......has that changed ?  Or are you talking about the Recreation Ground now.....hee-hee.

Jester......re: beer purchase......that's why it's called Dry Leas WinkWink

Clueless..........£8 for members, £10 for non-members at Raiders.  Too cheap IMO but I am probably a lone voice there Tongue


The main car park is for members only which is free, during the week it’s Henley third car park, hence the pay machines, we get to use it all weekend.

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'Go The Hawks!'


Posted By: Trench Foot
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 11:41
A very brief summary of Westcliff RFC:

We run 3 senior sides plus a ladies side, as well as junior rugby, all ages from 4 to 18.
We are totally amateur; we definitely don't remunerate our players in any way (and neither do we charge for people to watch us play).
Not paying, makes recruitment difficult, especially as all the clubs around us pay their players (some more than others!). As a result we rely on the players we produce through our junior system. Typically, of the 19 that played in the play off match v Barnstaple, 17 started in our minis.
Every season our ambition is to avoid relegation; last season we rather overdid the safety bit, but we probably won't make that mistake this coming season.
We have a new clubhouse and pitches, but unfortunately our move has been delayed until November (at the earliest).


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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers


Posted By: Leo T Lion
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 12:51
Good to hear from you TF. I for one know little about Westcliff other than visiting there once with Ruislip many years ago. For those of you new to Bournemouth, a bit on us.

We too are an amateur club. We are situated in a sports club where we receive none of the bar/food take and have to pay a small fortune to play there, meaning we are very grateful to our members and sponsors, becasue we are fighting with one hand behind our back. 

None of our players will be paid this year although we do have 2 player coaches. Everyone else is there for the love of it. We have been building for a few years and unexpectedly to many won a very competitive Zoo 2 last year and we used 46 in the first team, making the 27 point winning margin all the more incredible. Therefore, we are hopeful we have the strength in depth to cope with the 16 game stretch. Its going to be a great year for the club regardless. You will all receive a very warm welcome, we have worked hard on making our match day experience as good as it can be, to entice people back. Our entry fees haven't been set yet for this season but it will always be reasonable as we want people to come back. 


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Leo The Lion


Posted By: Wigwam
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 12:55
Originally posted by The BS7 Crusader The BS7 Crusader wrote:

I would love to jump on the band wagon against Mr hawkes about the clubs ridiculous £14 entry and £2.10 vile coffee. however I don’t have a leg to stand on as I have been hopping the back gate up the Field for years. Horrible rugby club annoying commentator annoying the pawpaw out of you through out the game Larger stinks. Horrible shame as the other NS teams in that area are very accommodating, anyway see you next year hawkes keep the back fences low.
 
 
 
Shame on you


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Pace Power Perfection


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 13:21
Trench Foot/Leo T Lion

Good to hear from both of you.

I didn't realise Westcliff were moving. As we don't visit until February I will keep a look-out for future news

I believe Bournemouth are also moving, or have they 1 more season out near the airport?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Leo T Lion
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 13:30
We have found an alternative site but its early days. I would think the club will be at Chapel Gate for a minimum of 2 more seasons.

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Leo The Lion


Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 23 May 2019 at 14:00
I used to enjoy my visits to B'mouth in the old SW1 days, other than the impossible task of getting a beer when netball and hockey were also being played. A highlight was when the fixture vs Rams coincided with the Lancaster doing circuits and bumps at the airport. 

I've also been to the B'mouth 7s a couple of times, never have I seen so many Huckleberryly Pear people in once place at the same time Smile Beer


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Enjoying life!



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