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Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forums
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: The Championship
Forum Description: Discuss the 12 clubs forming the English Championship.
URL: http://www.rolling-maul.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17664
Printed Date: 19 Oct 2019 at 11:26
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Leeds
Posted By: Dalesman
Subject: Leeds
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 11:05
Back to Leeds, shall we?

I see John Newcombe reports that if Leeds go belly up before 31 July, then Richmond would be reinstated. After that, we play an 11 club championship.

What's happening at Leeds now?



Replies:
Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 11:43
Well it seems like a large number have signed for Roth. Not sure where the brass is coming from.


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 12:29
If anyone does know what's going on they certainly aren't saying so in public.  The 2018 accounts are still unfiled and there has been no official notification of any form of insolvency.  Apart from that, the silence is deafening! 

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: Brizzer
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 12:34
Fingers are still firmly crossed. I know that feathers were ruffled when Leeds changed their name, but we really do not want another 'big' club with great fans going to the wall.


Posted By: CalderVale
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 12:45
Fully agree with Brizzer.... We don't need to loss clubs from rugby and defo call them LEEDS.


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 14:18
As YC are currently unable to sign players, and all un-contracted players have left I cannot see how it is possible for YC to be able to field a team that would be remotely competitive.

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Run with it


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 23:20
We could do with 10 easy points next season

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 08:35
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

We could do with 10 easy points next season
 

Problem is so will everyone else WinkWink


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 08:58
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

We could do with 10 easy points next season
 

Problem is so will everyone else WinkWink


Except Leeds if they have no players.


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 10:18
Obvious solution is a DR baabaas team


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 10:32
You will have squadron leader on the case talking DR.

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 15:40
So Richmond have to wait until end of July to see if they are re instated into the Championship. If they are they will have no time to recruit . What about Nat 1 will they play with a 15 team league or will another team be asked to move back which would probably be a more difficult problem for them to recruit especially if they have lost players by being relegated . If Leeds do not have a team now they will not get one who will come to them with all the uncertainty as to whether Leeds will be able to pay them.  


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 15:43
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

We could do with 10 easy points next season
 

Problem is so will everyone else WinkWink

A minor flaw in my cunning plan

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 16:46
Originally posted by workerbee workerbee wrote:

So Richmond have to wait until end of July to see if they are re instated into the Championship. 

There is a reasonable argument that OE be promoted as Richmond have divested themselves of some players and OEs have recruited for promotion - perhaps a play off to decide!!

Still leaves National 1 clubs a fixture short and a 6% cut in gate income and bar profit which may be only £5,000 but that comes straight off the bottom line. I suppose it also depends on how players are paid - salary/retainer or match fee - or a mix of both. 

Whatever happens it will be one less match to watch - I'll have to go and watch the 2nd/3rd XV!!


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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 17:25
NCA have confirmed the RFU Regs. If by 31/7 YC cannot fulfil their fixtures then Richmond will replace them and Nat 1 will play with 15 teams.


Posted By: The Blues
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2019 at 22:54
Perhaps the Yorkshire supporters may need to dust off their boots!  Get some DR's in and play their 6 star players they have left and see what happens to not mess everyone else up.


Posted By: Dalesman
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 12:40
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

NCA have confirmed the RFU Regs. If by 31/7 YC cannot fulfil their fixtures then Richmond will replace them and Nat 1 will play with 15 teams.


...and what happens if Richmond decline?


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 12:53
Originally posted by Dalesman Dalesman wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

NCA have confirmed the RFU Regs. If by 31/7 YC cannot fulfil their fixtures then Richmond will replace them and Nat 1 will play with 15 teams.


...and what happens if Richmond decline?

OE's get the offer?


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 13:26
It might not be an offer, it might be a requirement.
Quote
e RFU Board of Directors may, in its absolute discretion and subject to such terms as it may decide, require that: 
a) a Club which would otherwise play in the Championship play in the Premiership; and/or 
b) a Club which would otherwise play in Level 3 play in the Championship



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 13:37
This all smacks of the Championship looking after themselves. In a nutshell a Championship club goes mountain pepper up and those in National One take the hit in being a home fixture short. And yes, I know it is in accordance with the regs...


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 13:38
Mountain pepper is of course T I T S


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 13:59
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

This all smacks of the Championship looking after themselves. In a nutshell a Championship club goes mountain pepper up and those in National One take the hit in being a home fixture short. And yes, I know it is in accordance with the regs...
 

Hang on the discussion seems to be between the RFU and the NCA , the Championship clubs are sitting here waiting for someone to tell them what's going on . As with everyone else they cannot publish a fixture list which means they cannot sell the sponsorship for match days as some companies will want their favourite opposition its a complete !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.




Posted By: sidelined
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 15:22
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

This all smacks of the Championship looking after themselves. In a nutshell a Championship club goes mountain pepper up and those in National One take the hit in being a home fixture short. And yes, I know it is in accordance with the regs...
 

Hang on the discussion seems to be between the RFU and the NCA , the Championship clubs are sitting here waiting for someone to tell them what's going on . As with everyone else they cannot publish a fixture list which means they cannot sell the sponsorship for match days as some companies will want their favourite opposition its a complete !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.



And to make matters worse Nat 1 & 2 fixtures were published 3 weeks ago, and, presumably, those clubs will have filled the sponsorship for all of their home games. 


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 16:00
Most clubs have someone who follows rolling maul, so should know the Richmond fixture is potentially off.
Not that that helps if you have to them first up. 



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: knightandday
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 16:23
Originally posted by Moseley Mauler Moseley Mauler wrote:

This all smacks of the Championship looking after themselves. In a nutshell a Championship club goes mountain pepper up and those in National One take the hit in being a home fixture short. And yes, I know it is in accordance with the regs...


What a load of tosh. This has been in the regulations since the Championship was set up and it’s RFU looking after the “Professional “ game it set up and insisted upon.

The Championship clubs are sat waiting to see what happens, just like the rest of the pyramid.

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Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better


Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 18:07
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Most clubs have someone who follows rolling maul, so should know the Richmond fixture is potentially off.
Not that that helps if you have to them first up. 



We have Richmond at home in September and the match sponsors are already sorted.
I appreciate the comments of the Forum posters but we cannot act on speculation. We will simply have to wait for confirmation of the facts from the RFU before we contact our match sponsors etc. I dont see that we can do anything else.
Thankfully, our possible problems are nothing compared to Richmond's.

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All Knwoing All Seeing


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 19:54
Clap


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keep the faith


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 20:01
I dare say Richmond will manage. If they’re likely to stay in the Championship some of the leavers may well change their minds and it will be easier to attract ambitious new players. They have a large core of the Championship team left.
Also the club is already geared to all the extra bureaucracy involved in the Championship which is considerable.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 20:34
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

I dare say Richmond will manage. If they’re likely to stay in the Championship some of the leavers may well change their minds and it will be easier to attract ambitious new players. They have a large core of the Championship team left.
Also the club is already geared to all the extra bureaucracy involved in the Championship which is considerable.

Indeed. How many semi-pro Nat 1 clubs are looking for a paid marketing and communications manager?


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 20:36
Yes the job description is daunting.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 20:50
I think their priority might be finding some props to replace the two Dream Team players who moved on!

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Run with it


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 21:07
I expect they needed them anyway so will have been looking for a while.
The two departing young props developed into excellent props at Richmond. The previous season they spent mostly on the bench. That is an incentive for more ambitious young players.

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pappashanga


Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 21:12
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

It might not be an offer, it might be a requirement.
Quote
e RFU Board of Directors may, in its absolute discretion and
subject to such terms as it may decide, require that: 
a) a Club which would otherwise play in the Championship play in the
Premiership; and/or 
b) a Club which would otherwise play in Level 3 play in the
Championship


I was always under the impression that clubs who are eligible for promotion are actually invited to take up their place and could decline if they wanted. When Richmond won Nat 1 they canvassed their whole squad to ascertain who would be willing to carry on at the higher level and they unanimously voted to proceed into the Championship. Am I wrong ?

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The older I get, the better I was.


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 22:47
They did vote to move up but I have no idea whether they could have refused. I can’t see them refusing this time. If the first few matches are cup ones this would be ideal for absorbing new players.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2019 at 22:49
With regard to OEs, if they were to be offered promotion, which looks very unlikely, the administrative side of it would be very difficult for them at this late stage.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Member728
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 07:35
Believe or not WR they were not ,Richmond ask if they could decline 
they received NO REPLY


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83 Consecutive League Wins


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 08:07
The regulations on declining promotion are
Quote
(b) A Club is permitted to submit an application to the Organising Committee to request an exemption from promotion subject to the following conditions: 
(i) such request is received by the Organising Committee no later than the 31 December of the Season; and RFU REGULATION 13 – ADULT COMPETITIONS 8 Effective from 1 August 2018 
(ii) this right to submit a request is only available to each Club once at each level of the Leagues; and 
(iii) the Club must demonstrate that promotion would be detrimental to the finances and infrastructure of the Club;
 

But that does not really apply.
Richmond were financially sound. 
It is only the fact that they have had to let players go that makes it impossible to go back up.
Had this been resolved earlier, Richmond could have planned properly.
But that might have meant being honest about Leeds finances, and obviously Ruby needs a strong side in Yorkshire and it has to be Leeds as that was the club the blazers used to play.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: WESTCOMBE RANGER
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 08:46
Thanks gents for clearing all that up for me. Silly me should have realised the RFU still works in mysterious ways.

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The older I get, the better I was.


Posted By: greeneyed
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 09:11
Brizzer says that Leeds have 'great fans'. While I am sure that is true, like every other Championship club, not nearly enough of them to meet their outgoings.
The Championship is broken.


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 09:34
Originally posted by greeneyed greeneyed wrote:

Brizzer says that Leeds have 'great fans'. While I am sure that is true, like every other Championship club, not nearly enough of them to meet their outgoings.
The Championship is broken.
 
It has been since the day the RFU set it up with a great fanfare and no support which just about sums up the RFU 


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 09:51
Originally posted by greeneyed greeneyed wrote:

Brizzer says that Leeds have 'great fans'. While I am sure that is true, like every other Championship club, not nearly enough of them to meet their outgoings.
The Championship is broken.

Who broke it? And when? 

Great statement with no corroboration - it does have issues, sure, but I think it goes further than just the Championship. Look around you, and the clubs that are falling into oblivion is that not a sign of what is happening to Rugby across the board? Your club for example was a strong National 1 Team not that many years ago - now fighting to stay out of Nat 3 (a sad state of affairs although last season slightly better showing). Lets be honest it is the system (nee RFU) that is broken - are they not here to look after Rugby Football Union in the country as a whole?


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 09:55
One of my biggest issue with Carnegie was that for too long it was run as a franchise, not a club. There used to be a good club atmosphere, but this was steadily eroded until IMHO the matchday 'experience' just became an exercise to extract as much money out of the punters as possible. That and having the Rhinos rammed in your face at every opportunity.

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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 09:59
Surely the biggest mistake was that expensive ground. Also didn’t they lose an enormous subsidy from Carnegie university?
The picture that emerges is of ambition which overreached resources, just like LW.

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pappashanga


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 10:04
Once Caddick withdrew his support Leeds very much followed the LW financial model. The namechange from Leeds to Yorkshire picked up a sponsorship from a Bradford-based payday loans company, but I think that was the only effect financially.

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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2019 at 10:51
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

Surely the biggest mistake was that expensive ground. Also didn’t they lose an enormous subsidy from Carnegie university?
The picture that emerges is of ambition which overreached resources, just like LW.

I think that was £1 million / annum that they got from the University - I guess that would have hurt when it stopped.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: tulip
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 09:39
Leeds board of directors just issued a statement about 30 minutes
ago. I can’t get link though.


Posted By: hrplaneman
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 09:42
https://twitter.com/carnegierugby/status/1138718679481421825?s=19
Hopefully this link will work via twitter


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:08
http://www.yorkshirecarnegie.com/news/article/statement-issued-on-behalf-of-the-leeds-rufc-board-of-directors/" rel="nofollow - https://www.yorkshirecarnegie.com/news/article/statement-issued-on-behalf-of-the-leeds-rufc-board-of-directors/

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Blood and Sand


Posted By: The Tykester
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:15
No players & no coach. It should be easy to break even.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:59
I am intrigued how Yorkshire Carnegie will be able to field a team that can be competitive started off from their current position - as The Tykester stated "No players & no coach". Unless this is going to be a sham to keep them in the league with no relegation next season. I don't know where they can recruit a squad this late in the year, have they got prem clubs lining up to loan them players for the season or will they have to scratch a team up from somewhere on a penny and brass tack budget? Will player safety become an issue if they use a lot of Leads Uni players and Academy boys?

Worrying times not only for Yorkshire Carnegie but for the game as a whole.


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 11:04
Isn't the key bit that they hope creditors will agree to the CVA? What if they don't?


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 11:07
True - assuming that is agreed then.....although at least three of the overseas players want what was contracted so not sure how much that is and they might have to agree too.

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 11:14
I hope it works out for them imo rugby needs a team in a big City like Leeds to play in the upper levels of the game. I hold the same view on Birmingham & Plymouth so howay Mose & Albion.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 11:23
There is another club slightly south east of Leeds that could service those needs of the Yorkshire rugby supporters (wanting big time rugby) as well as the Lincolnshire needs and is surrounded by a very good motorway and rail network for ease of access etc. so I don't see it as a necessity for Leeds to be the epicenter 

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: the jackal
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:09
sKiwifruithorpe?


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:10
I really don’t understand how this is going to work. Does this mean any club can be insolvent if a CVA is agreed and carry on trading? Also where are next season’s team going to come from? They obviously can’t afford to buy a team off the peg so do they really expect to recruit sufficient part time players by September? There is no way such a collection of people would be able to compete. It all smacks of fantasy to me.
I await the next instalment of the saga.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:12
Proposing a CVA does not mean it will be accepted, as Sir Philip Green is discovering.
Though it sounds like he may get his ammended agreements through today.

If 25% or more of the creditors, by value, object the CVA fails and the insolvent company usually goes into administration.




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Blood and Sand


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:43
Originally posted by the jackal the jackal wrote:

sKiwifruithorpe?

Just a bit north of that towards the Start of the M180


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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Bigmal
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 15:04
Whilst I accept that Yorkshire was a stronghold of rugby in the early days and has a long and proud history I think that I am right in stating that the county never had a clear leader in terms of support. " Big" teams such as Leicester, Bristol, Gloucester, Coventry etc never emerged despite the size of the county and even those that were better known ( Wakefield, Roundhay, Headingly, Harrogate, Bradford etc) have suffered badly especially since the onset of the professional era.

I agree that Yorks deserves a club playing at Premiership level but I'm afraid that this scenario is unlikely as no one club appears to have the catchment area to survive. Here in the SW the clubs have a long and accepted tradition of being the top of the pyramid and a loyal and sizeable following in an area where football although played shares top billing. In fact Leeds was ( and indeed is) the obvious candidate in location/potential terms but for whatever reason no one club has emerged.

There is,of course, an argument for the Premiership Clubs thinking outside their self created bubble and accepting that a league contaning 14 teams representing the whole of the country makes sense in terms of expanding the game at all levels . Should they be collectively supporting teams situated in the SW,SE, London, E Midlands , W Midlands , NW and NE rather than seeking to maintain the status quo?

What I am certain of is that a contrived team with no history and no local connection ( or soul in emotive terms is unlikely to succeed.


Posted By: Rothman2
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 18:26
You seem to have forgotten someone, namely the first Yorkshire team to get to the Premier

What a short memory you have.

Anyway this subject is about Leeds. Having gone within an hour or so of extinction back in 2004 it is something I wouldn’t wish on any club, it is a sad state of affairs and I am sorry for all of their supporters.!

I hope a deal is sorted out to save them but my view is that professional rugby union beneath the Prem is not sustainable.





Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 18:51
The situation is ridiculous and I hope the creditors get looked after properly . .  I cannot see any long term future for the YC franchise!

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Run with it


Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 18:59
Since when do Creditors get looked after in a liquidation - lucky if they pick up 1p in the £


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 19:12
Exactly but they just have to roll over and take it, complete farce. Please can the RFU get a grip of the situation and give everyone certainty.

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Run with it


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 19:13
This isn't a liquidation - yet.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 19:16
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

Exactly but they just have to roll over and take it, complete farce. Please can the RFU get a grip of the situation and give everyone certainty.
 

Including the Staff and any local suppliers ?


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 19:28
Something will turn up just to keep them above the waterline - the owners of Headingley can't afford to have it unused over the winter.

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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 19:34
It all looks pretty hopeless. Why aren’t they going down nine leagues?

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pappashanga


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 19:56
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

It all looks pretty hopeless. Why aren’t they going down nine leagues?


Sounds like they are going to get the best side they can for the available budget - whilst shafting the creditors (sounds a familiar tale for clubs in level 2/3)

Presumably by doing this they don't have to start again from the bottom, just sink level by level over the coming seasons until they reach a level they can be competitive at.

Trouble is, very few players will want to join a club who are going to lose most, if not all, of their fixtures for the foreseeable future.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Friendly prop
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 21:41
Originally posted by the jackal the jackal wrote:

sKiwifruithorpe?
Why pick on us? We're not heading for the Championship LOL


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"Animo concipere non possum quo palto hoc pervease exeat."


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 21:41
So let me get this right. At Xmas with the third biggest budget in the Championship YC are 5 points adrift at the bottom of the league. They they bring in a number overseas recruits on 18 month contracts that they knew they could not fulfil and win enough games to avoid relegation. Now they are refusing to pay these players or other creditors and have gone down the CVA route so they can some how get the RFU Championship money for season 2019/20 in order for the club to survive but be hopelessly uncompetitive in the league. Richmond on the other hand stay in the black, have a full squad and coaching set up for next season -not only get shafted by Hartpury bringing in 13 premiership players for the last six weeks of the season, but are now being shafted by YC who made contracts with players they had no intention of seeing out. And the RFU is going to let this happen because of some deluded thought that for the 'good of rugby' YC need to survive. The admin at YC has been a disgrace and should suffer the consequences as other clubs in the past - Richmond, London Scottish, London Welsh and now Moseley - have done. If the RFU allow this to happen they also are a disgrace.


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 21:55
Well said Marigold . .  and the RFU should have been well aware of the perils at YC well before now as they have failed to produce accounts . . which are still overdue and should have been with the RFU before last season.

Other Championship clubs have lost league position money by YC's actions and Richmond have lost their league position and nearly all central funding . . and still dont know if they are planning for Nat1 or Championship.

Not withstanding players, coaches and suppliers who will all be out of pocket . . due the vanity/ignorance of the board.

All said without prejudice! I expect this drama to unfold painfully slowly to the credit of no one at YC, the RFU or rugby in general.


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Run with it


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 22:08
It’s a shambles.

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pappashanga


Posted By: gerg_861
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 22:10
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

It’s a shambles.
Like the ambulances at Ampthill?


Posted By: donnyladinsheffield
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 23:14
Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Originally posted by the jackal the jackal wrote:

sKiwifruithorpe?


Just a bit north of that towards the Start of the M180


Thornensians

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He's alright and he don't care; He's got thermal underwear


Posted By: castleparknight
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 06:15
Originally posted by donnyladinsheffield donnyladinsheffield wrote:

Originally posted by castleparknight castleparknight wrote:

Originally posted by the jackal the jackal wrote:

sKiwifruithorpe?


Just a bit north of that towards the Start of the M180


Thornensians

Close a touch west of that 😂

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Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 08:22
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

The admin at YC has been a disgrace and should suffer the consequences as other clubs in the past - Richmond, London Scottish, London Welsh and now Moseley - have done.

Bees?  Or have I missed something while checking out the ambulance access at Ampthill on Google Maps?


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 09:19
Moseley?

What do you know Marigold that I don’t???

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keep the faith


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 10:07
I did not know Moseley had gone down the leagues !

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 10:08
Professional rugby isn’t sustainable certainly in the Championship.

Too many players and coaches are ‘living the dream’ when they simply aren’t of the level to aspire to professionalism.

Part time and make them actually earn a living instead of being a rugby bum


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 10:38
Professional rugby below the Prem is an illusion , not that any of them other than Exeter make any money . . but semi- pro can work . .  look at clubs such as Bedford and ironically Richmond . .. but very few can and are totally reliant on the largess of benefactors . . but I am not sure that will ever change

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Run with it


Posted By: GreenThrough&Through
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 11:53
A similar scenario happened in National 1 back in 2016. Plymouth, having invested significantly in the playing squad, went into administration once they had sufficient points to stay up, taking into account the automatic points deduction they received.

Whilst we at Wharfedale ultimately weren't good enough to stay up on merit, it still left a bitter taste with many that a club run in a financially sound manner had to face relegation whilst a club that spent money they didn't have were allowed to remain where they were.


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 11:54
I remember that. How many points were deducted?


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pappashanga


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 12:41
I looked it up. 30 points. That would send Leeds into N1, either this season or next.


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pappashanga


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 12:47
The explanation of all the hoops a potentially insolvent club has to go through are interesting(apologies if someone else has already posted this)
https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/32/72/10/RFURegulation5Appendix2_English.pdf


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pappashanga


Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 17:17
Not much good news at the moment, even The Cricketers is up for sale.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 21:56
Can we keep on topic please.  The last Leeds thread went off topic, can we try to stick to one thing at a time. If you want to discuss your favourite grounds please start a new thread. Thank you. 

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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: God Bless The Apple
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 07:33
I'd have a shifty bet that Leeds will wait until after July 31st to announce CVA accept the points deduction....... and funding from the RFU for Champ clubs..... and stay in the Championship next season with a severely weakened side.

What a joy. Cry


Posted By: Member728
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 07:44

Fixtures, Results, Tables

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  • https://richmondfc.co.uk/#table" rel="nofollow - TABLE
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 1Richmond000


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83 Consecutive League Wins


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 07:55
The plan to enter into a CVA has already been announced but with no indication as to when the vote of the creditors will take place. It has been suggested that a CVA, unlike administration, may not involve a points deduction.

In the absence of any further information from the club we can only speculate as to why they seem so determined to fight to the bitter end given the uncertainty it is creating for Richmond and others.

Money may be part of it; although the payment to the landlords has been much reduced I'm sure the Rhinos would rather have £100k than nothing. There was also a suggestion from Rob Vickerman on the podcast which some may have heard that there may be no relegation from the Championship at the end of next season. I haven't seen this confirmed anywhere but, if true, it would provide an extra incentive to crawl over the line.

For everyone's sake I wish the board would at least lay out a timetable for the actions already announced.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 08:28
It’s hard to believe that they would be able to field any kind of viable team. The constant news is of their players joining other clubs . The RFU needs to step in now.

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pappashanga


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 08:45
"Money may be part of it; although the payment to the landlords has been much reduced I'm sure the Rhinos would rather have £100k than nothing" - and there lies the rub. At least this gives the stadium owners an income stream and allows them to keep Headingley operational over the winter. £100K IS an absolute bargain for stadium, training facilities, back office etc......but It's all dead money. 

Maybe if the landlaords had treated their tenants with a little more respect instead of looking at them as a cash cow they wouldn't be in the hole they are in now.


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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: AnIdiotAbroad
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 08:58
Speculation re the motive for the CVA is, as you say Albert, impossible to fully understand at this moment in time. Clearly though it is to reduce the size of the debt and a failure to reach agreement will have a significant impact on creditors.  I doubt if the impact on other clubs and leagues is being considered - not a criticism but the reality of a survival scenario. My limited knowledge of the CVA process is by the time it is announced that a CVA is a pathway a business is following a significant amount of work, discussion, planning and advice has been done/taken on board. A point in case is a well known retail group has just announced fundamental changes to their business structure from a CVA (and there are different types of CVA including a 'packaged' solution)  that has resulted in store closures, reduced rents/rates etc. That process has been happening below the radar for some months but away from the general media including professional advice (allegedly and without prejudice) from insolvency practitioners. Bearing this in mind it is a reasonable assumption that YC have plans in place for the various outcomes and those I appreciate cannot be disclosed.
As others have said, the probability of assembling a squad after a potential decision to carry on with RFU approval will be nigh on impossible. Recruitment is all but complete for the Champ and National league clubs. I do not know if the recruitment of a competitive squad has any bearing on the continuation of a club in this situation - does anyone know the answer to that?      

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Transparency avoids ambiguity


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:00
Originally posted by AnIdiotAbroad AnIdiotAbroad wrote:

I do not know if the recruitment of a competitive squad has any bearing on the continuation of a club in this situation - does anyone know the answer to that?      
 

No idea - other clubs, not least Mose when the wheels came off in the early 2000s, have offloaded their first team and completed the season with the seconds/amateurs, which enabled a "graceful" decline a level or two rather than handing their cards in. Manchester and Newbury took a lot further to fall before the rot stopped than Mose - who arrested it in tier 3. 

I'm not sure anyone has ever stood at the starting line of a whole season and tried to do it though, and I'm uncomfortable about whether it ought to be allowed - particularly given the gulf in fitness and ability these days. Best part of 20 years ago, we turned up and tried to avoid a weekly hammering. Now it could be actively dangerous.


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keep the faith


Posted By: fenboy
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:13
What's the situation with the mid-season imports? If YC are running next season surely they are on contract.

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Fucti Fineaux


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:39
They will still be contracted, but I presume the CVA will try to reach a compromise with them . . . if they did stay which I cant see, can you imagine their motivation levels?   

Maybe YC will employ the Rhinos squad!!!


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Run with it


Posted By: Pappashanga
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 10:44
The key to any kind of continuation is payment in full of ‘rugby debts’ . These are defined.There also has to be a three year business plan and scrutiny of management accounts. Also talk of a financial bond.
Even if all that is dealt with where are the players coming from? Who would join a club which appears unable to pay wages? The exit from Leeds is a procession as can be seen from the Signing and Departures thread.

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pappashanga


Posted By: Albert Fishwick
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:23
They have already said that the only full-time employee will be a head coach. For players they will presumably have a base of academy players and Leeds Beckett students and such money as there is may be enough to tempt some more seasoned local players.

I know many on here don't like Headingley as a spectating venue but the players' facilities are brand new and the surface is now very good (just relaid). The Kirkstall training facilities are also very good and pretty new, having had to be replaced after the 2015 floods.

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That's easy for you to say.


Posted By: Cricks at 2
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:36
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

They will still be contracted, but I presume the CVA will try to reach a compromise with them . . . if they did stay which I cant see, can you imagine their motivation levels?   

Maybe YC will employ the Rhinos squad!!!
I would have thought that contracted players, by definition employed, would have the kindest ‘cut’ imposed by a CVA. Whether they accept or challenge is another thing.


Posted By: Big Eddie
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:54
This whole debacle is a disgrace and a colossal failure in governance by the RFU. It will continue to happen because the RFU has no interest whatsoever in the game below the elite and has mortgaged its soul to the Professional game. The RFU and some clubs seem to have lost the essence of what club rugby should be all about.

My club Caldy was relegated from National 1 with 62 points, the highest total ever for a club to be relegated from National 1. Caldy almost certainly had the smallest budget in National 1 but without resorting to loans and DRs Caldy was able to lead the National 1 table for 4 or 5 weeks until injuries struck and the performance dipped. 

A tremendous run in the last few games saw Caldy almost survive and with 3 minutes to go away at Moseley it was Moseley for the drop not Caldy. However it wasn't to be and Caldy drop back down to National 2. There was no sadness at Caldy, just pride and admiration for what a small club had achieved with its own players and the delight at renewing rivalries with some great northern clubs next season.

I cannot think of anything worse than using contrived legal devices to attempt to stay at a level that a club cannot sustain like Leeds appears to be doing. Where is the pride, joy and community in such a position?


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''The future isn't what it used to be''


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 12:00
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:


A tremendous run in the last few games saw Caldy almost survive and with 3 minutes to go away at Moseley it was Moseley for the drop not Caldy. 
 

No it wasn't - we needed one point of any sort to ensure survival. At 10-5 with three mins to go we had an LBP so whoever was going down, it wasn't us. That we won 12-10 condemned Caldy, but we didn't need to win to stay up.

The rest of the post I agree with entirely. Will you be coming down for the PSF in August?


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keep the faith



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