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Return of Crowds

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Forum Name: Clubhouse chat
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Printed Date: 20 Oct 2020 at 17:48
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Topic: Return of Crowds
Posted By: Raider999
Subject: Return of Crowds
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 11:01
Having just read an article in the Telegraph re games at Twickenham with crowds of around 40,000 being possible with a 1 metre self-distancing rule, I cannot help thinking this is nowhere near possible.

To achieve that amount every other seat would need to be occupied in every row.

Anyone who has ever been wedged in at HQ would surely agree that this wouldn't achieve a 1 metre zone, indeed it could be argued that only every other row could be used which would result in a maximum attendance of around 9,000.

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RAID ON



Replies:
Posted By: Thatbloke
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 11:12
Absolutely agree Raider999 - we seem to be on the same page with most things!! Even so I wonder if Twickenham could break-even on a crowd of 9000 and just pocket the TV money (I've no idea what figures are obtained here??) 


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 11:54
Thinking of the ground at Cambridge (and most N1 clubs) there should be room for c350 with current 2m  social distancing (250 around ground and 100 in stand) - an outside bar away from the clubhouse area would be a bonus (think Ampthill)

Little income from pre-match meals - perhaps 50-75 could attend a sit down but many more in a buffet style pie and beans (with social distancing queue!)

With a bit of thought crowds should be OK but there will be little banter and few away supporters (each in their own individual cars)

Its all possible, all we now need is the players. Clown


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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 12:42
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Thinking of the ground at Cambridge (and most N1 clubs) there should be room for c350 with current 2m  social distancing (250 around ground and 100 in stand) - an outside bar away from the clubhouse area would be a bonus (think Ampthill)

Little income from pre-match meals - perhaps 50-75 could attend a sit down but many more in a buffet style pie and beans (with social distancing queue!)

With a bit of thought crowds should be OK but there will be little banter and few away supporters (each in their own individual cars)

Its all possible, all we now need is the players. Clown


This was more about professional sport.

When working things out people seem to forget that row 2 is not a meter away from row 1.

Having said that, most rugby grounds at level 3 and below out to be able to accommodate 250-300 with social distancing. I would imagine members & season ticket holders would get priority. Clubs might have to have a booking system?

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RAID ON


Posted By: knightandday
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 13:03
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Having just read an article in the Telegraph re games at Twickenham with crowds of around 40,000 being possible with a 1 metre self-distancing rule, I cannot help thinking this is nowhere near possible.

To achieve that amount every other seat would need to be occupied in every row.

Anyone who has ever been wedged in at HQ would surely agree that this wouldn't achieve a 1 metre zone, indeed it could be argued that only every other row could be used which would result in a maximum attendance of around 9,000.

Having been squeezed into the middle tier of the North stand in the past, I would suggest that only every fourth row would be usable with a four seat gap between each other is the only way with 2 metre distancing. 1Metre distance would still take out two rows and 2 seats between them


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Winning isn't everything, it just makes the beer taste better


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 13:08
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

 
When working things out people seem to forget that row 2 is not a meter away from row 1.

Having said that, most rugby grounds at level 3 and below out to be able to accommodate 250-300 with social distancing. I would imagine members & season ticket holders would get priority. Clubs might have to have a booking system?

I calculated the stand based on rows 1/3/5 and occupying a seat diago onally behind the occupied row in front.

Booking may become the norm with a priority from season tickets and clickers on the gate. 

TBH I have little interest in RFU/ Premiership - very much in their own cosy bubble. 


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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2020 at 13:40
Originally posted by knightandday knightandday wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Having just read an article in the Telegraph re games at Twickenham with crowds of around 40,000 being possible with a 1 metre self-distancing rule, I cannot help thinking this is nowhere near possible.

To achieve that amount every other seat would need to be occupied in every row.

Anyone who has ever been wedged in at HQ would surely agree that this wouldn't achieve a 1 metre zone, indeed it could be argued that only every other row could be used which would result in a maximum attendance of around 9,000.


Having been squeezed into the middle tier of the North stand in the past, I would suggest that only every fourth row would be usable with a four seat gap between each other is the only way with 2 metre distancing. 1Metre distance would still take out two rows and 2 seats between them


Getting 40,000 people into the ground with a 2 metre gap between them is 80,000 metres or 80 km as they couldn't use all the turnstiles as they are less than 2 meters apart I think you would be looking at 3,4 or 5 hours to get in and the same out .


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2020 at 21:52
The RFU's 40,000 estimate is reportedly based on a reduction to 1 metre as R999 mentions in his opening post. If it remained 2 metres, the corresponding capacity was given as 9,000.

No, I don't know what seating configurations these were based on, or whether you have to book a toilet slot from 3.49pm to 3.53pm or the many other aspects of detail...


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2020 at 08:41
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

The RFU's 40,000 estimate is reportedly based on a reduction to 1 metre as R999 mentions in his opening post. If it remained 2 metres, the corresponding capacity was given as 9,000.<div id="ypm-extension" ="ypm-extension">

No, I don't know what seating configurations these were based on, or whether you have to book a toilet slot from 3.49pm to 3.53pm or the many other aspects of detail...


Yes but my point was, even with 1m self distancing you can only use every other row as they are less than a metre apart rather than every row as RFU calculation is based on.

Strictly enforcing the 1m rule would probably mean only using every 3rd seat as using every other seat wouldn't give a 1metre gap either. This would further reduce the capacity to around 6,000

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RAID ON


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 10:05

By my reckoning it would take 375 Seats to allow for 100 Social Distant Seating arrangements, therefore Twickers capacity would be around 21K



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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 10:24
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

By my reckoning it would take 375 Seats to allow for 100 Social Distant Seating arrangements, therefore Twickers capacity would be around 21K



Can you explain your calculation? Also is it based on 1 or 2m self distancing?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Oldnknackered
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 13:42
By the time they got all the RFU alickadoos in there'd be no room for anybody else 


Posted By: islander
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2020 at 14:55
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

By my reckoning it would take 375 Seats to allow for 100 Social Distant Seating arrangements, therefore Twickers capacity would be around 21K



Can you explain your calculation? Also is it based on 1 or 2m self distancing?

In a sense there's little point worrying about the detail of this, isn't there, since it's 2 months until there's any rugby likely to be played? eg presumably household people can sit together? I'd be very surprised if the 2m rule isn't ditched within the next month...


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 11:29
Looking at the economy figures, I think returning to rugby is the least of most peoples worries at the moment.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 12:02
But a vast amount of the drop in GDP is in the wider entertainment sector - pubs, restaurants films, concerts and sport.

And as John Timpson pointed out the knock on - if you are not going out you do not need to dry cean your party clothes. Or indeed to buy a new outfit.

If you can work from home in your pyjamas - you do not need the new suit.

We are buying new networking equiqment and Netflix subscriptions.

And while we can do a lot on line - there is a pent up demand for the social contact.
So I think more people will want to go to sporting events in person rather than watch on TV.

But it will only be possible after we develop a vaccine and until we are hit by the next pandemic.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 12:15
New Zealand have announced their country is free of the virus.

It has been reported that they will have crowds at this weekend's Rugby matches involving Blues, Chiefs, Highlanders and Hurricanes.

They certainly move quickly.

Hopefully virus deaths, positive tests and hospital admissions continue to fall and we can get back to some sort of normal.

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RAID ON


Posted By: JonDee
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 12:44
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

New Zealand have announced their country is free of the virus.

It has been reported that they will have crowds at this weekend's Rugby matches involving Blues, Chiefs, Highlanders and Hurricanes.

They certainly move quickly.

Hopefully virus deaths, positive tests and hospital admissions continue to fall and we can get back to some sort of normal.


Also has to do with the number of people, they have a population density of 47 people per square mile ours is over 700 and they moved quickly .


Posted By: corporalcarrot
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 13:38
Send in the crowds
There ought to be crowds
Well maybe next year.

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Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.


Posted By: Tarquin
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2020 at 21:34
Little or no chance of clubs getting any international tickets next season.....
https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/5b/5bcc4f36-4007-4c66-a011-cca03afd2b0d/RFU%20Letter%2012%20June%202020.pdf?spMailingID=9648487&spUserID=Mjg5NzQ3MjUzMzM4S0&spJobID=1531836486&spReportId=MTUzMTgzNjQ4NgS2" rel="nofollow - https://www.englandrugby.com/dxdam/5b/5bcc4f36-4007-4c66-a011-cca03afd2b0d/RFU%20Letter%2012%20June%202020.pdf?spMailingID=9648487&spUserID=Mjg5NzQ3MjUzMzM4S0&spJobID=1531836486&spReportId=MTUzMTgzNjQ4NgS2


Posted By: OldNick
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 00:10
Having read the letter from the RFU on maximising income...

Given that 
1) The letter makes it clear that the RFU's primary objective is the survival of the RFU, not if the game of rugby, and
2) even before the outbreak of Covid-19 the RFU's actions have made it clear that their objective is the destruction of professional rugby outside of the Premiership, and their (in)action since then appears to have been calculated to further that aim,

I certainly would not piss on a fire at HQ to put it out, let alone spend a penny to help their self-made financial crisis.


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 08:05
The game of rugby will only survive if the RFU survives. This seems to me a sensible approach, ensuring that the RFU gets enough income to maintain its investment in rugby, both professional and community. It is 5his money that pays for the staff that work with clubs and schools to promote rugby, that makes grants for club facilities and supports refereeing development. 

I appreciate that many on this forum resent the fact that so much money goes to PRL thus reducing other areas of spend. At the AGM yesterday Bill Sweeney suggested that there was now an opportunity to change the balance. Let’s hope that happens. 


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 09:41
Apparently funding has been pulled from the Aspirational Pathway, no National sides at U18 Counties, U20 Counties and Senior Counties next season, knock effect means no Divisional sides at U18 and U20 and I guess would call in to question participation of County rugby at any level as that funding has also been pulled. Should make the anti-county lobby on here happy and will be the ammunition needed to kill off County rugby all together post CV-19. 

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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 11:34
While I am no fan of the Adult county competition, I do feel this is the wrong approach.
It means the only pathway is through the professional academies which moves them even closer to ring fenced franchises. 


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: RedWhine
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 13:18
Haven't seen this reported, but hope it doesn't end this way

We all accept rugby is late development sport & U18s Counties is a really good way to capture this & motivate players to give it a real go, even if outside academy structures

2 local examples from Kent in last 2 years Aaron Grandidier, now at Brive & Matas Jurevicius at London Scottish spring to mind & I'm sure plenty more

I know the Uni boys also like coming back for County U20s too - which keeps club relationships going...


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Only Me


Posted By: Penda
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 21:00
The RFU haven't been interested in amateur representative rugby for years. They have just taken the opportunity to get rid of it completely. No more proud shirts in clubhouses. 


Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2020 at 22:00
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The game of rugby will only survive if the RFU survives.

Do you really mean this?


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TJOS


Posted By: Sail By
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 09:11
As someone who has been involved in U17/U18 County rugby for a number of years I think that this is a massive mistake. Year on year do we find players who have developed late who we either pass to our local regional academy or get picked up by Universities and end up playing professionally. 

Also let us not forget the coaches who work at this level. We have many great coaches who have a full time job and do not work in "full time" rugby who pass their k knowledge on through this pathway. 

If the RFU do not fund the pathway then CBs have to find a way to make this happen!


Posted By: Fly Half
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 09:22
Todays TheRugbyPaper makes pretty desperate reading regarding the financial position of the game in England,the UK and the wider International game.Australia is on the verge of bankruptcy.

If the money isn't there - it's not only not there but there are very substantial debts - they they can't spend it on this or that. I suspect similar comments could apply to most other sports.



Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 10:02
But killing the community game will not save the professional game.
The only way to save the professional game in the long term is to keep the community game alive.
This may mean that the professional game has to die and be reborn.

I did say earlier - is this the time to think the unthinkable and invite the league clubs back to build one strong code.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 11:01
The RFU doesn’t want to kill the community game. They face a situation of falling revenues, an outdated commitment to the professional game that they cannot yet get out of and a concern that too much money is being spent by community clubs on player payments. Yes, the U20 team, the Sevens squad, the Age Group teams and England Counties will not happen but that is for this strange season only. Provided matches at Twickenham happen, the revenue will recover, even if only slowly.

The RFU sees investment in the community game being through AGPs, RDOs to support Clubs, grants for development and coaching, management and refereeing development. They don’t feel they should be giving money to Clubs to pay players, that should be the choice of the Clubs.

I don’t agree with everything they are doing and perhaps they do get it wrong occasionally but I do see a commitment to the community game, even if that means Level 7 and below which doesn’t interest many on this forum. They also see women’s rugby as a massive growth area so expect more support for that. If you haven’t got a women’s team now you soon will have!


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 12:33
Nigel, sorry what? "too much money is being spent by community clubs on player payments"

If by community clubs you mean Nat 1 and Nat 2 Clubs who use the "community club" tag but still pay large match fees then I agree. If you think for one minute that Clubs at Level 5/6/7 or below get any money of the RFU to fund  players then you are plain wrong. Notwithstanding the "Payment of Players Declaration" that clubs now have to complete how much "money" do you think the RFU is giving to clubs?

AGP funding was CUT last year leaving several "community clubs" stuck between a rock and a hard place who had invested some money on surveys and reports. AGPs will not be funded in any major way in the future because they do not make enough revenue. More RDO's and CRCs are to lose their jobs over the next six months, Grants are being cut or completely withdrawn and quite sure the Referee fraternity are all making a wry-smile on your Referee Development comment.

As for Women's Rugby, yes RFU are dead keen if only to bring in the funding they can get from Government initiatives. If you think that 10, 100, 1000 Womens sides are going to appear in the next 5-10 years then I would a say more like halfway between the two first numbers if we are lucky. 


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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 13:20
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Nigel, sorry what? "too much money is being spent by community clubs on player payments"

If by community clubs you mean Nat 1 and Nat 2 Clubs who use the "community club" tag but still pay large match fees then I agree. If you think for one minute that Clubs at Level 5/6/7 or below get any money of the RFU to fund  players then you are plain wrong. Notwithstanding the "Payment of Players Declaration" that clubs now have to complete how much "money" do you think the RFU is giving to clubs?

AGP funding was CUT last year leaving several "community clubs" stuck between a rock and a hard place who had invested some money on surveys and reports. AGPs will not be funded in any major way in the future because they do not make enough revenue. More RDO's and CRCs are to lose their jobs over the next six months, Grants are being cut or completely withdrawn and quite sure the Referee fraternity are all making a wry-smile on your Referee Development comment.

As for Women's Rugby, yes RFU are dead keen if only to bring in the funding they can get from Government initiatives. If you think that 10, 100, 1000 Womens sides are going to appear in the next 5-10 years then I would a say more like halfway between the two first numbers if we are lucky. 

I know very well how little money is given to Clubs by the RFU, particularly at Level 6 and below. The RFU considers Level 3 the top of the Community game but doesn't want those Clubs to overreach on player payments. I was also making the point of what the RFU wants to do with the money it has. We always want them to spend more money on us but are rarely happy with what we get.


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 14:17
Womens Premiership lost its main sponsor Tyrells for coming season. 

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 15:16
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Womens Premiership lost its main sponsor Tyrells for coming season. 


Old news reported before.

Apparently they are talking to potential new sponsors

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RAID ON


Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 18:03
It’s very simple. If you need to cut your cloth then you cut it where it’s not actually necessary. If representative rugby went tomorrow no one with anything other than self interest would shed a tear


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2020 at 18:13
Surely in the short term in makes more sense for the governing body to spend its resources on seeking to help the clubs survive rather than run county teams, especially the senior county competition which has become simply an after thought at the end of an already long season. I would also suggest that clubs is where CB financial reserves are directed for the next season or two so that going forward all the players who play may end up playing county rugby have an original base to come from.


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:13
The RFU sees investment in the community game being through AGPs, RDOs to support Clubs, grants for development and coaching, management and refereeing development. They don’t feel they should be giving money to Clubs to pay players, that should be the choice of the Clubs.

Clubs at Level 3 & 4 don't get RFU grants, just loans.  RDO's do nothing of substance, never see ours and the schools all play rugby so he is not needed there.  AGP's not sure who or what they/this are.   
RFU don't give Level 3 & 4 clubs ANY money to pay for players just around a 40% contribution to travel costs.  If the travel contribution is cut they clubs on the edges of the country suffer big time but clubs near the RFU in the much richer South East are all all right Jack. 


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:30
AGP = artificial grass pitch


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 11:44
Your county might not need a RDO - but outside the Duchy most state school do not offer rugby.
So there is a role for a RDO in getting pupils their first experience of the game.

I am totally with you on travel - Cambridge is lucky as we are fairly central.

AGP is I believe the plan to roll out 3G pitches.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 12:38
AGP - Great for the host club but for the rest unimportant.


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 15:14
Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

The RFU sees investment in the community game being through AGPs, RDOs to support Clubs, grants for development and coaching, management and refereeing development. They don’t feel they should be giving money to Clubs to pay players, that should be the choice of the Clubs.

Clubs at Level 3 & 4 don't get RFU grants, just loans.  RDO's do nothing of substance, never see ours and the schools all play rugby so he is not needed there.  AGP's not sure who or what they/this are.   
RFU don't give Level 3 & 4 clubs ANY money to pay for players just around a 40% contribution to travel costs.  If the travel contribution is cut they clubs on the edges of the country suffer big time but clubs near the RFU in the much richer South East are all all right Jack. 

I'm fully aware of the money Clubs at Levels 3/4 receive from the RFU, being currently the Treasurer of a Level 4 Club! I didn't say that the RFU gave money to Clubs to pay for players. What I said was that the RFU don't feel they should be giving money to Clubs to pay players, several posters over the years have asked for this. I'm sorry that you don't see your RDO, we see ours and work with them. The one retained this summer has been very supportive. As well as travel money the RFU dos support our referees and ARs, that isn't all our money. 


Posted By: RedWhine
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2020 at 15:23
The Kent Rugby Dev Officers & Community Rugby Coaches do a lot of good work with youth rugby - always happy to run courses & deliver them well.

Really helps improve coaching levels & very helpful around best practice at running youth sections


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Only Me


Posted By: Monkey Boy
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 00:17
Originally posted by Redted Redted wrote:

The RFU sees investment in the community game being through AGPs, RDOs to support Clubs, grants for development and coaching, management and refereeing development. They don’t feel they should be giving money to Clubs to pay players, that should be the choice of the Clubs.

Clubs at Level 3 & 4 don't get RFU grants, just loans.  RDO's do nothing of substance, never see ours and the schools all play rugby so he is not needed there.  AGP's not sure who or what they/this are.   
RFU don't give Level 3 & 4 clubs ANY money to pay for players just around a 40% contribution to travel costs.  If the travel contribution is cut they clubs on the edges of the country suffer big time but clubs near the RFU in the much richer South East are all all right Jack. 

No wonder you don’t see your RDO as it doesn’t sound like he’s needed


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2020 at 22:25
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:




As for Women's Rugby, yes RFU are dead keen if only to bring in the funding they can get from Government initiatives. If you think that 10, 100, 1000 Womens sides are going to appear in the next 5-10 years then I would a say more like halfway between the two first numbers if we are lucky. 

Have to disagree with that based on local experience in last 5 yrs

In Berks 5 yrs ago Newbury, Reading, Bracknell & Windsor had a teams each
Bracknell became Crowthorne (well the players defected) but have since reformed at Bracknell as well, Reading Abbey formed a team and made it up to Champ level and now have a 2nd team, Newbury have a 2nd team, Rams formed a team, Reading and Windsor still going. So in last 5 yrs Berks alone has gone from 4 teams at 4 clubs to 9 at 7. Over the same time girls rugby has gone from a single BaaBaas team at u15 & 18 to 6 u13 teams, 4 u15 and 2 ish u18 teams, county trials at U15 was 22 5 yrs ago which was all the girls in berks at that age group inc those playing up from u13 on a dispensation, this year there were 74 at U15 with no dispensation (was ended when the sex split dropped from u12 to u11) and many other not trialling.

Still opportunity for other clubs like Maidenhead to form ladies teams (they run touch currently)


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 07:19
D, great, indeed the W&Gs game has developed and continues to do so, however my point was in reply to Halliford's point that the 1500 or so Clubs in England will have a Ladies Team in the near future. They won't. Think you're own figures say in FOUR years you've added 3 Clubs in your county. That's means you've started to flatline on the growth front.

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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 09:46
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

D, great, indeed the W&Gs game has developed and continues to do so, however my point was in reply to Halliford's point that the 1500 or so Clubs in England will have a Ladies Team in the near future. They won't. Think you're own figures say in FOUR years you've added 3 Clubs in your county. That's means you've started to flatline on the growth front.

Depends on the circumstances of each club though doesn't it (where they are and what they can offer)? AIUI (well it was correct on Monday so they might have heard now) Moseley have got enough women players now that they're waiting to hear imminently from the RFU on whether they can enter a second team into the leagues.

Now, they *could* be told to go off and start/join another team, but apparently they want to play for Moseley...


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keep the faith


Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 11:34
Dad, I have to agree with Piff Paff.

My wife is still playing Senior rugby after 31 seasons at both University and our club, she founded our Womens XV 25 seasons ago and we have been fortunate to play uninterupted during that time.

My daughter now plays seniors after coming through the continuum from the age of five to found the girls teams at the club so she could play. We now have U15s, U18s and 25+ Senior Women.

I told the misses that the RFUs goal was to get a Womens team in all the clubs in the Union (1500+).

After 30 minutes she stopped laughing at me.



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The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 11:54
Goals are generally meant to be SMART Specific measurable Achievalbe Relevant and Time bounded.
We are not going to get a women's team in every club this season (if ever).
Surely it is better to have a goal for this season - perhaps a minimum number of teams in every CB - ad I freely admit I have not checked where we are on, so all players have a viable league without too much travel. And then expand from there.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 17:00
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Goals are generally meant to be SMART Specific measurable Achievalbe Relevant and Time bounded.
We are not going to get a women's team in every club this season (if ever).
Surely it is better to have a goal for this season - perhaps a minimum number of teams in every CB - ad I freely admit I have not checked where we are on, so all players have a viable league without too much travel. And then expand from there.


Good suggestion, I know someone who plays rugby but her club haven't got 15 players.

It wood be a good idea to get more women involved - expanding the number of clubs will then maturely follow.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 22:38
i should say i am in Berkshire which only has 13 voting clubs and not even all of them have minis & juniors so a growth from 4 to 7 is from 1/3 to 1/2 of all clubs, agreed no chance of all teams within a year - Slough won't neither would Phoenix/Drifters or Aldermaston, Tadley & Thatcham could (but the latter are v.close to Newbury) and Berkshre Shire Hall was the old council sports and social club before the county council was abolished so v.unlikely.

As for you Raider that would be great but the RFU ruled out cluster clubs for girls rugby - it happens at ladies (crowthorne do stuff with Risborough despite the distance) but the general push seems to be that they believe it dissuades clubs forming their own teams. In Sussex you have the weirdness of Pulborough national U18 champions 3 years out of last 4 who can hardly run a ladies team as their girls get hoovered up (although I know Alex and Julie did great things with the Worthing Girls - great pair)

The big thing is that 5 years ago 12 year old girls were travelling from Newbury to Aylesford in Kent or Welwyn for a Sunday afternoon friendly game but now can play Reading, Bracknell, Abbey or Rams within the county - that will work through the ages and in a few years the adult rugby will follow


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2020 at 23:46
You cannot play a friendly game against Welwyn.
Sorry that just does not compute.
Either you turn up with the South West divisional squad or they put 50 points on you.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Dad
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 01:54

I remember watching them get very grumpy trying to play the regs to turn a semifinal match into a 10's game to win but coming up against a manager with a copy of the regs on him. They were given 15 mins to decide whether to concede and a play a friendly or play short handed. Some "injured" girls recovered, the game was played and they were beaten (on neutral ground at grasshoppers if I remember rightly) think it was first girls season I was involved in so 5 yrs ago

And I think my daughters team have beaten them a few times, def more times than OA's who are stronger currently 


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2020 at 15:49
Apparently accordingto the Times (beind a paywall) the County Cricket grounds have realised they are pubs with outdoor seating. The fact that there might be a cricket match on the green is just an added bonus.

I do not believe this helps rugby.
You can play Cricket from a distance of one metre.
Indeed you can require the batsman - and the keeper if standing up - to wear a helmet with persex over the grille.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2020 at 16:19
What it does do is help Cub finances. We can now open our Bar to members and guests and start taking bookings again. We can't play yet but starting to bring in cash is an important step. Let me know when you're down my way and I'll buy you a 1 metre distanced pint!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2020 at 18:07
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Apparently accordingto the Times (beind a paywall) the County Cricket grounds have realised they are pubs with outdoor seating. The fact that there might be a cricket match on the green is just an added bonus.

I do not believe this helps rugby.
You can play Cricket from a distance of one metre.
Indeed you can require the batsman - and the keeper if standing up - to wear a helmet with persex over the grille.



Not to mention they can charge you to get into the 'beer garden'

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RAID ON


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2020 at 13:58
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

By my reckoning it would take 375 Seats to allow for 100 Social Distant Seating arrangements, therefore Twickers capacity would be around 21K



Can you explain your calculation? Also is it based on 1 or 2m self distancing?

Clearly Raider, my calculations are the same as the RFU/HM Gov one. Big smile

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53997289" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53997289


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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2020 at 16:56
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

By my reckoning it would take 375 Seats to allow for 100 Social Distant Seating arrangements, therefore Twickers capacity would be around 21K



Can you explain your calculation? Also is it based on 1 or 2m self distancing?


Clearly Raider, my calculations are the same as the RFU/HM Gov one. Big smile

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53997289" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53997289


Good guess

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RAID ON


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 23:37
I am now confused.
We are being usrged to go back to school, university and work.
But we are not meant to socialise.
So god knows when we will be permitted to play rugby.

Cambridge had a good training session for minis, juniors and seniors followed by a scoialy distanced bbq on Saturday. Regretably I arrived late - but not before the food or beer ran out.
So I only saw the videos from training.

Not sure when we will be able to do that agian now, let alone arange a match.

Stay safe and well.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 07:25
I've just read that 'organised team sport' is excluded - but presumably only for the players and not the spectators.


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:04
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

I've just read that 'organised team sport' is excluded - but presumably only for the players and not the spectators.


As long as each group of up to 6 spectators socially distance from other groups then surely this is allowed - no different from going to the pub or restaurant, apart from being outside so less of a risk

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RAID ON


Posted By: clieves
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:33
My apologies in advance for sinning below.

I went to watch a football match on Saturday - ground capacity 3000 - permitted attendance was originally 600 but I believe reduced to 400. I'd be surprised if there wasn't more than 400 there.

Temperature of all supporters taken and a one way system in and out of the bar and that was about it with regards to social distancing. We were asked to keep two seats between groups in the stand but rows weren't blocked out so someone was sitting directly behind me. Around the ground apart from the fact people weren't "hemmed in" there didn't seem to be any efforts to socially distance people. 


Posted By: Flish
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 13:10
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

I've just read that 'organised team sport' is excluded - but presumably only for the players and not the spectators.


As long as each group of up to 6 spectators socially distance from other groups then surely this is allowed - no different from going to the pub or restaurant, apart from being outside so less of a risk

If I can no longer go down the pub with more than 6 mates am not sure I can go in the club bar with them post match either, so this has to have an impact on crowds coming back to games surely?  If it doesn’t then the whole groups of 6 thing will just be ignored / abused.


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 16:07
As I understand it we can have groups of up to 6 from multiple households, up to 20 if from two households. At the same time we can only have 30 inside the Clubhouse so most activity has to be outside. We have laid out spaces for that so that groups can use the Bars but stay separate. We are doing the RFU Pitch Up 2 Play this weekend, having started our Mini programme last weekend. We will be monitoring this very carefully to ensure that the rules (law from Monday) are being followed correctly by everyone.


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 16:29
Good job we have that organised team sport rule exempting rugby from the new East German-esc diktat.


Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 17:04
Originally posted by clieves clieves wrote:

My apologies in advance for sinning below.

I went to watch a football match on Saturday - ground capacity 3000 - permitted attendance was originally 600 but I believe reduced to 400. I'd be surprised if there wasn't more than 400 there.

Temperature of all supporters taken and a one way system in and out of the bar and that was about it with regards to social distancing. We were asked to keep two seats between groups in the stand but rows weren't blocked out so someone was sitting directly behind me. Around the ground apart from the fact people weren't "hemmed in" there didn't seem to be any efforts to socially distance people. 


I went to a 'non league' friendly - although the latter attitude was in short supply yesterday. 

Similar steps in place - 'ticket only', temp check on arrival, check in by app, admittance times limited, one way system, takeaway bar service, blocked off areas (pinch points), restricted seating arrangements, card only, no programme, delayed exits etc. It seemed to work well for both club and supporters and everyone seems to follow the rules. 

It would work for rugby - for 95% of clubs, but I still feel the major issue is for the players and contagion by contact, rather than the fans. Unless that issue is resolved, contact community rugby could still be a long way off. 


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Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 07:29
Richard the other major issue you have, that most people have not mentioned is changing and showering facilities.

This will be a major issue with upwards of 20 people who used to fit into one room, but now that same amount of people have to be spread over 3 or 4 rooms. You then add in Physio staff and medical staff and all of a sudden you have not enough space for two sides to change! Its interesting to see some sides having to change in the stands in Prem games, that is a major issue.

Whilst you are wearing face masks in shops rugby is just not going to get played below the Prem, it's sad but I think that's pretty much a fact.Add in the "R" rate going north as well as Unis going back this week, that is going to increase that rate even more, I think we are look at Jan at best, if at all in the 20/21 season!




Posted By: Richard Lowther
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 08:26
Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

Richard the other major issue you have, that most people have not mentioned is changing and showering facilities.

This will be a major issue with upwards of 20 people who used to fit into one room, but now that same amount of people have to be spread over 3 or 4 rooms. You then add in Physio staff and medical staff and all of a sudden you have not enough space for two sides to change! Its interesting to see some sides having to change in the stands in Prem games, that is a major issue.

Whilst you are wearing face masks in shops rugby is just not going to get played below the Prem, it's sad but I think that's pretty much a fact.Add in the "R" rate going north as well as Unis going back this week, that is going to increase that rate even more, I think we are look at Jan at best, if at all in the 20/21 season!



I was discussing this at the game with my long suffering better half.  We couldn't understand why local cricketers had to go to a game fully dressed, yet the footballers could use the changing rooms as if nothing has happened.  We agreed that there was no logic in the decision. 




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Moderator http://www.leaguerugby.co.uk" rel="nofollow - National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 09:57
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumtime Scrumtime wrote:

<span style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: line;">Richard the other major issue you have, that most people have not mentioned is changing and showering facilities.</span><div style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><br style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;">
<div style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: line;">This will be a major issue with upwards of 20 people who used to fit into one room, but now that same amount of people have to be spread over 3 or 4 rooms. You then add in Physio staff and medical staff and all of a sudden you have not enough space for two sides to change! Its interesting to see some sides having to change in the stands in Prem games, that is a major issue.<div style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: line;"><br style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;"><div style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: line;">Whilst you are wearing face masks in shops rugby is just not going to get played below the Prem, it's sad but I think that's pretty much a fact.Add in the "R" rate going north as well as Unis going back this week, that is going to increase that rate even more, I think we are look at Jan at best, if at all in the 20/21 season!




I was discussing this at the game with my long suffering better half.  We couldn't understand why local cricketers had to go to a game fully dressed, yet the footballers could use the changing rooms as if nothing has happened.  We agreed that there was no logic in the decision. 




Can they? As you say no sense whatsoever. I knew cricketers couldn't use the changing rooms, but I assumed other sports were the same.

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RAID ON



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