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"Buried" News?

Printed From: National League Rugby Discussion Forums
Category: League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk
Forum Name: National League 1
Forum Description: Discuss the 16 clubs in the third level of the English game
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Printed Date: 30 Oct 2020 at 22:24
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Topic: "Buried" News?
Posted By: stonehousealbion
Subject: "Buried" News?
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 04:10
Two extremely cogent news stories which appear to have (been?) slipped under the radar:

https://www.ncarugby.com/national-1/chinnor-player-banned-for-two-years-for-anti-doping-rule-violation/" rel="nofollow - Chinnor Player - Doping Violation - NCA

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/sport/other-sport/plymouth-albion-start-2020-21-4353168" rel="nofollow - PARFC - Major  Sanction for Financial Negligence - Herald
.
Perhaps some kind soul more accustomed to dealing with the powers that be can find a better source than that listed for the latter story (The Herald lacks credibility among the Plymouth faithful). The gist of the article is that Albion made an error similar to Rams on payments/material benefits.

I couldn't see anything on RFU or NCA...


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Come cheer up, my lads - 'tis to glory we steer!



Replies:
Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 07:29
Reading the PARFC cae has made me rather cross
It's like the RFU don't realise that the game is tun by well meaning volunteers 


Posted By: TigerTitan
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 09:30
would love to no how PARFC were getting confused about MATERIAL BENEFITS

sounds very fishy to me HMRC tax avoidance tax man knocking on door trouble same old rugby




Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 09:43
Unless I’m reading this the wrong way all clubs are facing a loss of travel subsidy:
“All ring-fenced onshore and offshore travel funding will be suspended for the 2020/21 season. Clubs who suffer financial distress as a result may be eligible for support from Club Support Fund (subject to confirmation of criteria).”


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 11:08
I have submitted my Club's Return this year and last. It wasn't easy in 2018/19, despite our payroll being managed through an accountancy firm. The Material Benefits clause could be awkward for those paying current students. I have some sympathy with PA but do recall that I held off submitting my Return until the last minute to check every query. Even then we were asked for contract details, which were satisfactory.

Losing the RFU Travel money is not disastrous, another effect of such a breach would be the loss of CB income, in our case over £50k so that would have been significant. Other Clubs that breached the "cap" didn't have that concern. 


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 11:10
Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

would love to no how PARFC were getting confused about MATERIAL BENEFITS

sounds very fishy to me HMRC tax avoidance tax man knocking on door trouble same old rugby




Having run my own company in the past, I can see how volunteers could easily be confused about Benefits - what with reams and reams of HRMC documentation on the subject.

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RAID ON


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 11:35
I just don't see how when PARFC were the ones that contacted the RFU to say they may have done it wrong, then corrected the error, and still get hammered.   Sorry, but I think that is petty and totally unwarranted 


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 13:42
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

I just don't see how when PARFC were the ones that contacted the RFU to say they may have done it wrong, then corrected the error, and still get hammered.   Sorry, but I think that is petty and totally unwarranted 


I thought that has been the case in other instances

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RAID ON


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 13:55
I have not seen the form, but I thought the point was that four officers had to sign it off.
The point being that each one should check it is accurate.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2020 at 14:20
I think the most famous case is in this neck of the woods was Medway RFC who complained about there players being poached and ended up a couple of leagues down, fined and other sanctions all around benefits in kind

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 16:17
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

I think the most famous case is in this neck of the woods was Medway RFC who complained about there players being poached and ended up a couple of leagues down, fined and other sanctions all around benefits in kind

Though Medway also originally claimed to the RFU that the players were amateur while they were giving them semi-pro benefits without declaring them. Medway's wasn't just an administrative oversight.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 24 Jul 2020 at 16:34
Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

would love to no how PARFC were getting confused about MATERIAL BENEFITS

sounds very fishy to me HMRC tax avoidance tax man knocking on door trouble same old rugby



Your post doesn't make any sense at all. 


Posted By: Cannon
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 14:58
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

I think the most famous case is in this neck of the woods was Medway RFC who complained about there players being poached and ended up a couple of leagues down, fined and other sanctions all around benefits in kind

Though Medway also originally claimed to the RFU that the players were amateur while they were giving them semi-pro benefits without declaring them. Medway's wasn't just an administrative oversight.
If you recall at the time Medway were castigated by all around them, yet it was well known other local clubs "amateur players" were benefitting from playing rugby, in the Kent press there was an article that clubs were poaching yet no one had followed their complaints up. My club was at L6 at the same time and we were very aware of players receiving material benefits and not just in Kent.

From my limited research, all the cases of clubs being disciplined are where the said club has made the RFU aware themselves, either through declaring their accounts for grants, loans or allowances or where a club has complained of players being poached.


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Rucks and mauls may bust my balls, but whips and chains excite me!!


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 16:46
Bit like Sarries in the AP. As you say at the time there was plenty of skullduggery going on probably still is

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 17:49
Originally posted by Cannon Cannon wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

I think the most famous case is in this neck of the woods was Medway RFC who complained about there players being poached and ended up a couple of leagues down, fined and other sanctions all around benefits in kind

Though Medway also originally claimed to the RFU that the players were amateur while they were giving them semi-pro benefits without declaring them. Medway's wasn't just an administrative oversight.
If you recall at the time Medway were castigated by all around them, yet it was well known other local clubs "amateur players" were benefitting from playing rugby, in the Kent press there was an article that clubs were poaching yet no one had followed their complaints up. My club was at L6 at the same time and we were very aware of players receiving material benefits and not just in Kent.

From my limited research, all the cases of clubs being disciplined are where the said club has made the RFU aware themselves, either through declaring their accounts for grants, loans or allowances or where a club has complained of players being poached.

I can’t remember exactly but I think there were also immigration offences with Medway - players incorrectly declared as British.


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 25 Jul 2020 at 18:58
Not sure if they were declared British but they were  I think Kiwis And Medway had paid the flights and accommodation And not declared it from memory. I am not sure that they broke any regulations on the English front but will happily be corrected. From memory it was around this time that several clubs suddenly had a first XV Ltd as the loopholes started to close 

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 26 Jul 2020 at 23:59
Among the bad news, the staff at the former YC Academy have been made redundant.
As has the Kit manager.
Reported on the Leeds board and Linkedin posts.




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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 11:38
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Among the bad news, the staff at the former YC Academy have been made redundant.
As has the Kit manager.
Reported on the Leeds board and Linkedin posts.




I'm sure that they have been expecting it for some time, not that it makes things any easier.

Another nail in the coffin?

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RAID ON


Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 12:22
After Rams had a points deduction for roughly the same offence as Plymouth the RFU probably has no choice, but that doesn't stop them being total Huckleberrywombles when it comes to dealing with volunteers. 



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Enjoying life!


Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 12:24
I see that Chinnor have announced Delon Armitage as a Coach for the coming season. Bet he's cheap............ 

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Enjoying life!


Posted By: workerbee
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 13:36
A 5 Point may not be a big deal over a 30 league season , but if the season does not start until after 3rd October the season becomes effectively a 15 game season , with the league splitting after 15 games at stage two and the clubs are either the top 8 or the bottom 8 to play off for promotion or relegation and in window 3 it is a straight 15 games so effectively it will  be a double penalty.


Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 14:06
Why is it that an administrative error, that has no direct benefit to the club on the pitch receives a points deduction and yet a drugs offence by a player, that presumably does garner an onfield benefit to the club, doesn’t?

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TJOS


Posted By: Jester10
Date Posted: 27 Jul 2020 at 14:24
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

Why is it that an administrative error, that has no direct benefit to the club on the pitch receives a points deduction and yet a drugs offence by a player, that presumably does garner an onfield benefit to the club, doesn’t?

A very good point! One that no doubt the Blazers at the RFU have considered................... over a long lunch. 


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Enjoying life!


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 19:46
Clap


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 19:54
I would think DMP are in a horrible position as I believe the money to run the Arena comes from bookings and like most there haven’t been any and I would not imagine that the overheads are small even with a closed shop

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 20:09
A fall from grace comes to mind 


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 21:45
Presumably we will find out after the EGM on the Glorious 12th.

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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 22:07
The loss of rugby and rugby related income is effecting us all to varying degrees but, those Clubs who are clearly 'asset' rich are often wrongly assumed to be also 'cash' rich. This is hardly ever the case and I believe that it is 'asset' rich Clubs who are feeling the effect of the restrictions the most.
Clubs with sizeable Clubhouses/facilities almost certainly need a regular income to simply meet the regular bills & expenses that having such facilities will bring. A large part of that income is usually not rugby related and, rugby apart, it is probably the loss of this income which is currently crippling 'asset' rich Clubs.
I assume that Clubs who do not own their Clubhouse/Playing facilities and simply finance a 1stXV squad will probably be feeling little financial effect from the Covid-19 restrictions.


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All Knwoing All Seeing


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 28 Jul 2020 at 22:56
I agree with Sid James, my Club is asset-rich and we have lost £160k of revenue this summer. We have used the Government grant and furlough schemes and done an appeal which has offset a lot of that. We have reopened our Bar and BBQ at weekends and next month start external bookings again but it has been hard this summer. As Secretary I am doing three times the work I would normally do to ensure that we can take advantage of every opportunity. We will survive but we know that funding the next two seasons will not be easy, one of the reasons we are pleased to be welcoming London Scottish in Sept 2021.


Posted By: TigerTitan
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 00:26
dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 


Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 06:59
Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 

That won't end well. 


Posted By: FHLH
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 08:53
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 

That won't end well. 

If true, it could do if a relationship between DMP and Chinese clubs can be developed. Hiwever, are there any football teams looking fir a new home?


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"My father told me big men fall just as quick as little ones, if you put a sword through their hearts."


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 09:01
Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 

That won't end well. 

If true, it could do if a relationship between DMP and Chinese clubs can be developed. Hiwever, are there any football teams looking fir a new home?

Opportunity for Wasps' next move north?


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keep the faith


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 09:15
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

Originally posted by FHLH FHLH wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 

That won't end well. 

If true, it could do if a relationship between DMP and Chinese clubs can be developed. Hiwever, are there any football teams looking fir a new home?

Opportunity for Wasps' next move north?
Or Falcons move south as they seek bigger crowds?


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 09:16
Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 

Did your (very reliable) nephew tell you that...?


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 11:26
Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 
Check your device. Suspect you have a virus


Posted By: Moseley Mauler
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 13:07
Just stop rising to TigerTitan's bait.  The more you feed the trolls.........


Posted By: Romanrelic
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 13:20
Great news, I’m jumping in first and ordering the set meal for 2 and a pot of curry sauce.
Beats the standard steak pie or burger...
RR


Posted By: Kimbo
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 15:28
Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 
Are they that much in the soup?
I guess they could always re-name it the Bird's Nest.
If your nephew has been Peking he could probably confirm that.



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Our City,
Our Club


Posted By: kingsheathlad
Date Posted: 29 Jul 2020 at 18:47
DMP have an EGM on 12 August. 

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Cauliflower ear


Posted By: greeneyed
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 09:55
The 'community' clubs which are at most risk are those whose hubristic management have incurred large and unavoidable overheads, normally by the ambitious overdevelopment of their fixed assets, usually in pursuit of the Impossible Dream. This is a tragedy, although in most cases understandable, which afflicts several of my own club's best friends. I do hope that other clubs with such plans in the pipeline will think very carefully before going ahead.


Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 10:01
The issue revolves around local council withdrawing from the £20m Sports Village project on the pitches outside the Arena. 


Posted By: Rabbie Burns
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 13:13
While that is understandable in the current climate with most if not all local authorities having their budgets squeezed that would throw any club into complete disarray and is hardly mismanagement if you are going along a projected road to come against a funding withdrawal I would say it is only negligent if you have paid out the money before you get it but that again is what most businesses do

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So many Christians not enough Lions


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 16:40
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

The issue revolves around local council withdrawing from the £20m Sports Village project on the pitches outside the Arena. 

I understand this to be a minor issue 


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2020 at 20:24
£20m a minor issue? I think that is pretty significant Front 5!!!

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Run with it


Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 08:48
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 16:55
Originally posted by backrowb backrowb wrote:

Originally posted by TigerTitan TigerTitan wrote:

dmp are selling the stadium to a chinese owner 
Check your device. Suspect you have a virus

It's not his device that has the virus.


Posted By: Flish
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 14:28
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/

Which has some pretty major inaccuracies, hence the statement at  https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html  



Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 20:02
Originally posted by Flish Flish wrote:

Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/

Which has some pretty major inaccuracies, hence the statement at  https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html  


Yes I read that at the time. Not a lot of detail about what was actually inaccurate. It was reassuring to read that long term finances are sound but then an extraordinary general meeting is called.


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 20:06
Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Originally posted by Flish Flish wrote:

Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/

Which has some pretty major inaccuracies, hence the statement at  https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html  


Yes I read that at the time. Not a lot of detail about what was actually inaccurate. It was reassuring to read that long term finances are sound but then an extraordinary general meeting is called.

My point about this being  minor issue was this was money assisgned for a development which to date has not happened. As such can't miss money you never had and any business plan based around proposed investments is always destined to fail


Posted By: Neasham
Date Posted: 02 Aug 2020 at 20:42
Originally posted by front5 front5 wrote:

Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

Originally posted by Flish Flish wrote:

Originally posted by Neasham Neasham wrote:

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/" rel="nofollow - https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/18569968.darlington-council-set-drop-20m-sports-village-plan/

Which has some pretty major inaccuracies, hence the statement at  https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-statement--darlington-sports-village-2549031.html  


Yes I read that at the time. Not a lot of detail about what was actually inaccurate. It was reassuring to read that long term finances are sound but then an extraordinary general meeting is called.

My point about this being  minor issue was this was money assisgned for a development which to date has not happened. As such can't miss money you never had and any business plan based around proposed investments is always destined to fail

You can miss revenue you were expecting to generate as part of a longer term business plan. Never been a DMP member just a fairly frequent spectator so will have to rely on others for updates. Hopefully all will be well. 


Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 22:26
http://www.plymouthalbion.com/latest-news/a-letter-to-the-rfu/" rel="nofollow - http://www.plymouthalbion.com/latest-news/a-letter-to-the-rfu/

This might not be received too well as some of the points are probably valid.


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TJOS


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 03 Aug 2020 at 23:00
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

http://www.plymouthalbion.com/latest-news/a-letter-to-the-rfu/" rel="nofollow - http://www.plymouthalbion.com/latest-news/a-letter-to-the-rfu/

This might not be received too well as some of the points are probably valid.


Having just read through the letter I am sure it will go down well at HQ.

I suspect a lot of people would have more sympathy if Plymouth hadn't recently been in Administration (was this the first time?) and exited it still owing a lot of local people/businesses the majority of what they were entitled to.

Just to say, this is just my personal opinion.

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RAID ON


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 09:14
Originally posted by The Joy of (Level) 7 The Joy of (Level) 7 wrote:

http://www.plymouthalbion.com/latest-news/a-letter-to-the-rfu/" rel="nofollow - http://www.plymouthalbion.com/latest-news/a-letter-to-the-rfu/

This might not be received too well as some of the points are probably valid.
I bit too flowery and bit "me, me" IMHO, but can't really argue with any of the messages being put across (once you can find them).




Posted By: greeneyed
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 09:56
I have done my best to feel some sympathy for Plymouth Albion but taking account of the way they gamed the system to leave creditors unpaid, I have totally failed to find any. To my mind the RFU were complicit, the Regulations in place at the time conniving at bringing the Game into disrepute.


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 10:38
Are they talking about last years travel money?
If not and it is this seasons then its no financial sanction at all given the RFU have withdrawn support for the NCA and there won't be any travel money.

Enjoyed reading the letter, ignore the actual 'offence' and the general tone puts across perfectly the problems clubs face when ever dealing with the RFU.


Posted By: WEvans
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 14:45

I would imagine whoever receives the lecture letter will fall asleep long before they get to the end.



Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 16:04
I have a bit of sympathy but not a lot. I've done my Club;'s Return for the last two years and made sure I asked the questions before I hit the final button. Last year, which is the year they are being punished for, also required 4 people to physically sign a document so how are those 4 dealing with their failure to ensure the return was correct?


Posted By: Runitback
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 21:27
I am sorry but if it takes 4 people to sign off a return it is obviously too complicated, this is an amateur at best semi - pro sport, run by enthusiasts and amateurs. Yes flagrant breaking of the rules should be punished but not simple clerical errors . . come on. Rams and PA have been very very harshly treated, and to impose a fine on either club at these times is simply madness . . .. I wonder what salary sacrifice Sweeney Todd has made?

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Run with it


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 22:03
As I understand it one person should be able to fill it in.
The other three merely need to check and sign it. 

The idea is that all four are declaring the form is correct.
I would hope you can fix it up until the point all four have signed. 
However, as I am not on the committee I have not seen the interface.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: Halliford
Date Posted: 04 Aug 2020 at 22:28
I have! Last year the Return was completed by me as Secretary passed to the President, Chairman and Treasurer for signature then submitted online as a pdf as well as ticking some boxes. This year it was all done online with the 4 of us signing electronically through GMS.

Those 4 roles are those that the RFU holds responsible for each Club.


Posted By: Mark W-J
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 08:30
Originally posted by Runitback Runitback wrote:

I am sorry but if it takes 4 people to sign off a return it is obviously too complicated, this is an amateur at best semi - pro sport, run by enthusiasts and amateurs. Yes flagrant breaking of the rules should be punished but not simple clerical errors . . come on. Rams and PA have been very very harshly treated, and to impose a fine on either club at these times is simply madness . . .. I wonder what salary sacrifice Sweeney Todd has made?
But the RFU's attitude appears to be that if four people have to sign it, and three of them couldn't be bothered to check that the first person had done it correctly, then the club has been negligent.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 09:32
You have to wonder how often they do not bother to read the documents they sign in their day jobs.


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Blood and Sand


Posted By: PiffPaff
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 10:11
This isn't Rocket Science....use to be.
 
In the good old days (3 years ago) you had to manually fill out the form and send it to Nicky Cook. Who whilst she was a stickler for the rules she also very, very helpful. GMS has replaced all the manual entry bit and you basically have to answer some Yes/No Tick Boxes, if you don't understand the question you could still ask for help just don't press SEND until you were ready. It then required the other 3 "Golden" Role people to read and click confirm, kind of a anti-negligence check. So yes its sad they did PA for a clerical error but it looks a bit negligent to a man on a galloping horse does it not?


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Crouch, Bind, Tweet!


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 11:15
I think this is the point, if only 1 person needed to sign it off there would be scope for errors either deliberate or accidental.

By having 4 signatories then any such errors should be highlighted before submission, assuming they actually read it through and don't just sign it.

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RAID ON


Posted By: Redted
Date Posted: 05 Aug 2020 at 19:11
There is nothing to read through.  All the submission requires is a total figure spent on paying players and coaches, including taxable expenses.  For most clubs this a relatively simple figure to get correct, but gets more complicated where players have jobs linked to playing rugby for the club.  This is probably where Plymouth struggled.
No supporting documents are requested by the RFU.

In true GMS style thought the IT around the system only works when it want to!


Posted By: Camp Freddie
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 08:05
One problem with the declaration for lower clubs was when the Chairman was also the Treasurer and the guy who washed the kit as well as marking the pitches etc etc. GMS would not accept that someone could have multiple Golden Roles and went in to melt down.

I understand that governance are looking to drop the 4 signatories to 2 at lower league levels to ease the process. 


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The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.


Posted By: Camquin
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 15:53
If your club cannot find four people to be on the committee how do they find 15 to turn out on Saturday.



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Blood and Sand


Posted By: The Joy of (Level) 7
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2020 at 22:14
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

If your club cannot find four people to be on the committee how do they find 15 to turn out on Saturday.


They pay them?


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TJOS


Posted By: Scrumtime
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 08:59
https://www.ncarugby.com/announcements/two-hull-rufc-players-banned-from-sport-for-anti-doping-rule-violations/%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.ncarugby.com/announcements/two-hull-rufc-players-banned-from-sport-for-anti-doping-rule-violations/



Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 10:44
To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.

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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"


Posted By: Raider999
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:05
Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.


Thought that was clear anyway - Ionians not mentioned at all in the link.

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RAID ON


Posted By: billesleyexile
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:34
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.


Thought that was clear anyway - Ionians not mentioned at all in the link.

Well you'd think so, but it does beg the question of why it was on the National 1 board - never mind any confusion with Ionians (who, like last time, I'm sorry to lose - good fans, good ground)


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keep the faith


Posted By: Puli.
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 11:55
Old news, both players left the Hull RFC  club before the start of last season 

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If Rugby is the game they play in Heaven ..... Why does it hurt like Hell when you retire?


Posted By: French Connection
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 12:11
If they were able to test all the players in Nat 1 and below they'd find that many hundreds had taken performance enhancing drugs. The amount of it going on would be staggering to many on here who have no experience of the bodybuilding/gym/weight lifting culture prevalent today among young men. It's huge. 


Posted By: TigerTitan
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 15:22
no drug testers cos of COVID at the moment smash it in boys 


Posted By: CJB1
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 20:31
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Originally posted by CJB1 CJB1 wrote:

To be clear, this is Hull RUFC, *not* Hull Ionians.

Thought that was clear anyway - Ionians not mentioned at all in the link.
I know, but it's easy to be a bit lazy and refer to Ionians as "Hull", overlooking the other club's existence.

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"What I need is a strong drink and a peer group"


Posted By: omnes Paviores
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 22:06
To be absolutely clear this was HULL RFC. Three players were involved. The two named plus one who was dealt with separately who was a Romanian International 7's player.

Those players are now out of the game for sometime, thank goodness 


Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 22:24
Originally posted by French Connection French Connection wrote:

If they were able to test all the players in Nat 1 and below they'd find that many hundreds had taken performance enhancing drugs. The amount of it going on would be staggering to many on here who have no experience of the bodybuilding/gym/weight lifting culture prevalent today among young men. It's huge. 

That is quite a 'throw away' comment FC. Can you support it?
I prefer to believe that there are far more players who do not break the rules, than those that do.


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All Knwoing All Seeing


Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 22:51
Originally posted by Puli. Puli. wrote:

Old news, both players left the Hull RFC  club before the start of last season 

Puli,
To be fair, the 'old news' is that all 3 incidents occurred in Feb 2019 but, the posting refers to the 'new'' news' that the 2 further sanction decisions have  finally been decided, in July 2020. The first sanction decision was in Nov 2019. Even with delays due to Covid-19, 17 months is quite some time for the remaining 2 players to await their fate. 

Do you think 3 UKAD Sanctions at one RU Club is evidence of systemic failure at the Club or, would you say that the individual players are wholly responsible? I believe all 3 players were regular players at the time of the incidents but they have since left Hull RUFC. Do you know if they were asked to leave?


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All Knwoing All Seeing


Posted By: omnes Paviores
Date Posted: 09 Sep 2020 at 23:21
Supporting Sid 

Were the club aware of the 'goings on' which I doubt but were the DOR and Coaching staff aware of what was happening

I agree that this kind of enhancement is possible and kept away from the club executive but  the game side of the club must have had knowledge of the miscreants when 3 players were involved. It is . also interesting that an foreign international was involved. was he who introduced the options to local kads


Posted By: marigold
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 07:52
OP i doubt very much the game side were aware. One of the bans was for driving one of the guilty away from the testing  not taking anything. I am disappointed by your little englander slur on foreign players. Whilst he qualified and played for Romania through ancestry he was brought up in and played for a variety of English clubs. Sadly just an example of individuals thinking they can break the rules and get away with it- no apologist for this behaviour but ultimately far less dangerous to others than those who enjoy a few beers at the rugby club and then drive home.


Posted By: Sid James
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 11:45
Originally posted by marigold marigold wrote:

OP i doubt very much the game side were aware. One of the bans was for driving one of the guilty away from the testing  not taking anything. I am disappointed by your little englander slur on foreign players. Whilst he qualified and played for Romania through ancestry he was brought up in and played for a variety of English clubs. Sadly just an example of individuals thinking they can break the rules and get away with it- no apologist for this behaviour but ultimately far less dangerous to others than those who enjoy a few beers at the rugby club and then drive home.

Marigold,
Would you not agree that generally, a player would 'avoid' being tested for one reason only?

I don't think OP made any 'slur' against foreign players. OP said 'foreign international'. I believe that OP was referring to the higher level of rugby played by that individual, which may in turn have seen him need to remain at a higher level of fitness. In his case, through the use of banned substances. 
This player was a prolific try scorer at Levels 4 & 5. We now know he 'cheated'. How would you feel if this 'cheat' had scored a number of tries against your club in a level 5 match? 
I agree that this is a sad state of affairs but to say that this 'cheating' is less dangerous than drink driving is strange indeed. I don't see the comparability?


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All Knwoing All Seeing


Posted By: front5
Date Posted: 10 Sep 2020 at 22:43
The use of enhancement substances are prevalent at move levels....

within a game that relies on players having such a quick turnaround after the punishment the body takes on a Saturday afternoon, It is not possible for the body to recover the required amount between games let alone adding team training and also Personal training on top of that

TT you know as well as most this is the case, however I understand you always missed legs day Wink


Posted By: backrowb
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2020 at 08:48
This is already buried news on this forum as the discussion about it was locked and buried months ago



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