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PRL Breakaway

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Capt Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PRL Breakaway
    Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 12:12
Prl are demanding Promotion and relegation be stopped or else hey will breakaway from the RFU and form their own ringfenced competion. This will kill the England team and the rest of Rugby can go to hell. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 12:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Capt Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 12:40
Someone is telling porkies then

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-6561167/RUGBY-WAR-Premiership-threaten-split-RFU.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cricks at 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 12:59
Not at war, but slowly and surely mobilising. Ritchie knows exactly where he wants to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 14:18
Originally posted by Capt Sparrow Capt Sparrow wrote:

Prl are demanding Promotion and relegation be stopped or else hey will breakaway from the RFU and form their own ringfenced competion. This will kill the England team and the rest of Rugby can go to hell. 


Yes, if this happens all premiership registered players will be banned from:-

A) England (and other countries?) selection
B) loan/DR to Championship and NL teams

However in the long term, with the next level of players forming the England squad, where does this breakaway league get its new players from?

It may be a short term fix for the Premiership clubs but they have 13 members, unless they also expand the league will the odd team out vote to be excluded? I'm not sure what voting level they need to do this (75%, 90% or 100%)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 14:30
If they want to bring up the drawbridge and wave goodbye to promotion then I will gladly wave goodbye to them as they sail away up their own ......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 14:32
Let them go, England national team take a hit for a couple of years while a new structure is rebuilt. The millions poured into the premiership can be used to setup a better game with clubs self sufficient in the main. After all where did all the current premier players start their rugby journey wasn’t Sarries, Bath etc. Cricket didn’t fall apart when Kerry Packer had his breakaway. Could be a good time to look at central contracts similar to NZ model which works (or looks like it does).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 15:12
Happy to agree let them continue to spend millions on big named overseas retirees who want some extra cash before they finally retie via Japan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albionlass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 15:28
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

If they want to bring up the drawbridge and wave goodbye to promotion then I will gladly wave goodbye to them as they sail away up their own ......


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 16:42
I'm not sure everyone would agree with these sentiments.

I cannot help thinking that the Premiership clubs are getting brave because having sold part of their soul for £200m they feel they are no longer reliant on the RFU for their largesse.

The RFU say this money should not be used to pay players, but to update facilities etc - cannot help thinking the Clubs do not agree with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 16:48
The problem is the French. Not having such a dominant Soccer league, their clubs can extract more money from the TV.
So unless you equalise the situation - by having a European league with all TV monies shared equally - there is in fact no way for English clubs to compete. Especially having given away a third of their TV money. 

The PRL will try to extort as much money as they can from the RFU - but in reality they have little bargaining power.
If they were to break away, they would lose RFU funding, insurance and referees. They would presumably also lose 
their places in European competition.

RFU could offer central contracts to the international squad and make them available on loan to the clubs that remain loyal. Those clubs would take up places in Europe. However, between the RFU and the clubs is different - with the RFU controlling the players and the academies - so the new clubs would never be as strong a voice.

I am fairly sure BT would find a clause that lets them break their contract with PRL. And even if they bid for the breakaway, it would be on reduced terms. So the 13 would be bankrupt in a season.

After a couple of seasons - with all the ex-Premiership players availble, the Championship clubs would be as strong as the former PRL clubs.

Actually, I think a European league is more likely. There is nothing about promotion to a European league in the RFU rules, it would be easier to argue for ring fencing. But I suspect there would be a maximum of 10 places for English sides. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Member728 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 19:53
I am not in favour of ring fencing, however assuming it goes ahead

If the the RFU were as savvy as the NFL they should offer the money(or more)the relegated team now gets to the Championship hopefully to expand by 2 extra teams

Also to put teams into the useless cup we have at the moment

However I agree with Camquin that the European option is the most likely
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 19:54
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

The problem is the French. Not having such a dominant Soccer league, their clubs can extract more money from the TV.
So unless you equalise the situation - by having a European league with all TV monies shared equally - there is in fact no way for English clubs to compete. Especially having given away a third of their TV money. 

The PRL will try to extort as much money as they can from the RFU - but in reality they have little bargaining power.
If they were to break away, they would lose RFU funding, insurance and referees. They would presumably also lose 
their places in European competition.

RFU could offer central contracts to the international squad and make them available on loan to the clubs that remain loyal. Those clubs would take up places in Europe. However, between the RFU and the clubs is different - with the RFU controlling the players and the academies - so the new clubs would never be as strong a voice.

I am fairly sure BT would find a clause that lets them break their contract with PRL. And even if they bid for the breakaway, it would be on reduced terms. So the 13 would be bankrupt in a season.

After a couple of seasons - with all the ex-Premiership players availble, the Championship clubs would be as strong as the former PRL clubs.

Actually, I think a European league is more likely. There is nothing about promotion to a European league in the RFU rules, it would be easier to argue for ring fencing. But I suspect there would be a maximum of 10 places for English sides. 




There is a lot of logic in most of what you say.

I don't think the PRL clubs would be bankrupt within a season having just agreed the sale of a minority stake for over £200m - they could probably survive for several seasons without the RFU money.

A European league would be a possibility, but I suspect there would only be a total of around 20-24 teams in 2 divisions or conferences.

The make-up would probably be similar to the current Champions Cup

7 French clubs
7 English clubs
3 Irish provinces
3 Welsh regions
2 Scottish clubs

A total of 22 - possibly 1 more French & English club.

Where does that leave the rest of the PRL, top14 and Pro14 - out in the cold that's where!

Of course some might say this would be a better competition with the talent spread less thinly, undoubtedly this would be ring-fenced.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 21:47
No to ring fencing, it ruined Bradford and nearly did to London in the lesser code when they dabbled with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 23:04
Do the RFU give money to the relegated team then?
I wasn't aware of that.

(Question to Member 728 BTW).

Edited by Kimbo - 06 Jan 2019 at 23:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 23:29
Only indirectly. The parachute payment is made by the Premiership sides forgoing some of their revenue - some of which comes from the RFU in the form of payments for releasing internationals.

On the subject of funding. The PRL sides may have paid off some debt - but they have given up a third of their TV revenue - which does not do any good for their collective deficit.  Of course if you believe their are vast untapped sources of revenue, then CVC might find them. But in that case you have to ask what have PRL management been doing up until today .  

On the European league - it does depend on size. I was thinking of a 32 team league with a divisional structure akin to NFL. But it could be much smaller. You need to fill the season and the TV schedule. Anything else is superfluous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2019 at 23:47
Where will the PRL clubs find all the money to achieve this? TV and sponsorship is going down. Attendances are not high enough to generate the income they need and if the RFU held their nerve and refused to allow any of those players in the England set-up then they'd lose all the RFU subsidy.

There are only 2 real options

1. All this being done with the backing of a new multi-billionaire investor..which seems unlikely given the value CVC places on it.

2. They are dropping these hints in the hope the RFU get scared and give them their precious ring fence and ever more control in how rugby is run.

Saying all this...the RFU are barely any better at running the game, but they do hold the golden goose of Twickenham, without which they would have fully lost control many years ago.

Edited by Count Ford - 06 Jan 2019 at 23:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Member728 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 00:36
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

Do the RFU give money to the relegated team then?
I wasn't aware of that.

(Question to Member 728 BTW).
Only from the Premiership to the championship
It is based on a complex  formula the the length of time a team is in the Premiership and the percentage of that club holds of Premiership shares ( P shares)
The percentage varies between the clubs but is based on 
  • Each club gets B shares
  • Every club gets five A shares for every year they are in the Premiership
  • A team receives all 40 A (maximum) shares when they have been in the league for six successive seasons. However, each season a side is out of the Premiership they lose five A shares.
  • P shares, worth 25% of income, only given to 13 clubs.
You can sell P shares as did Leeds to Exeter 5million in 2010

So London Irish got circa £2M last year 
If for instance a club like Leicester were relegated they would get substantially more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 08:31
Ah. The old 'releasing internationals' wheeze.
Yes, I was aware that there is a 'parachute' payment from the cabal to their 13th protected member, but had overlooked the RFU's fingers in the blackmail pie.
Corruption in sport. You don't have to dig far, eh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FHLH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2019 at 10:19
Originally posted by Member728 Member728 wrote:

If for instance a club like Leicester were relegated they would get substantially more
 
Sounds like a referral to the Competition and Markets Authority is called for!
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