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Revolt in the North

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Darth Vadar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Vadar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 10:46
There are no Cumbrian teams in the Lancashire Leagues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2020 at 12:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 17:36
ADM leagues settled. Championship looks the worst for mileage, Littleborough gonna doo some miles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 18:37
I would think Littleborough would be positively delighted, 950 Total Round Trip Mileage compared to just over 1000 Miles for just 4 Trips (St.Benedicts, Aspatria, Upper Eden and Hawcoat Park) to Cumbria in the old North Lancs/Cumbria Division.  Frankly mileage was never really the problem, Travel Time was, 6 Hours average to at least two of the sides named above. Longest time wise for 'Boro in the ADM 2 hours 46 mins round trip.

Edited by PiffPaff - 02 May 2020 at 19:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 20:28
Fair point PP, in comparison. Still not what I would call local games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 10:15
LF, would call this local?

Broughton Park, Anslemians, Glossop, LSH, Bowdon, Widnes, Leigh, Tyldesley, Southport, Sefton, Hoylake, West Park St. Helens, New Brighton, Manchester Medics.

That was RFU South Lancs & Cheshire 1 in 2016/17 with more combined mileage and 3 Counties represented.

Hoylake to Glossop roughly same distance as Hoylake to Littleborough, its strange how some people perceive something as increased travel in a new competition when its compared to the old model.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 13:32
I suppose it's because it was hailed originally as local, but point taken PP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 19:18
There can be no argument that the league goes against what it had as an objective when it  was originally set up.

A number of clubs didn’t want to play in Cumbria. The outcome is they now don’t, lots more club have been forced to leave the RFU structure and now also Isle of Man rugby is affected. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 20:23
Good points MB but the Lancs Clubs had to leave to force change which still hasn't come. However the RFU Leagues L7 down began to get weaker and weaker to the point that the ADM Leagues now provide a better "product". Whatever the grand RFU plan is for 21/22 it better be a good one because there's a chance of more Clubs leaving.

Didn't I read somewhere on Social Media that the IOM Clubs we also included in the ADM but only if the RFU Travel Finding stayed in place which it would seem it hasn't.

BTW who's forcing these Clubs to leave?....... think you might mean RFU/North DOC inability to move with the times has necessitated these Clubs to join a breakaway league structure which a far better operated and organised from whence they came.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exiled in Mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 21:51
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


Didn't I read somewhere on Social Media that the IOM Clubs we also included in the ADM but only if the RFU Travel Finding stayed in place which it would seem it hasn't.
 
To frank there have been to many IoM teams in the leagues to the detriment of the local competition. Much of it is parochial self interest but I think it would be better if there where just a men's and a women's side in the leagues. Possibly you could argue for two men's sides, a senior one and a mainly under 23s, or something but the I don't think that at the level a couple of the clubs where playing at justified the money the RFU where putting in for travel.
 
It might have great for prestige but the loss of the Lancashire sides has stripped the leagues so there are now big jumps between divisions and in the divisions. With more sides joining the ADM even if the RFU did carry on funding all the Manx sides it looked a bit bleak for a couple of them. Maybe it will give them a chance to come back stronger when finances allow and hopefully the Lancashire sides are back in the RFU competitions.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2020 at 22:08
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Good points MB but the Lancs Clubs had to leave to force change which still hasn't come. However the RFU Leagues L7 down began to get weaker and weaker to the point that the ADM Leagues now provide a better "product". Whatever the grand RFU plan is for 21/22 it better be a good one because there's a chance of more Clubs leaving.

Didn't I read somewhere on Social Media that the IOM Clubs we also included in the ADM but only if the RFU Travel Finding stayed in place which it would seem it hasn't.

BTW who's forcing these Clubs to leave?....... think you might mean RFU/North DOC inability to move with the times has necessitated these Clubs to join a breakaway league structure which a far better operated and organised from whence they came.

By sucking so many clubs out of the structure it’s been like a house of cards.  Most of the clubs who’ve joined have done so because there isn’t enough opposition left.

It’s just a power battle of egos now with allowing so many Cheshire clubs, going against all initial objectives.  If the Cheshire clubs hadn’t been enticed then at least those Lancashire clubs who wished to remain has teams left to play.

How anyone involved at the beginning could honestly say their objective was to have Wirral clubs, Congleton etc in their structure I don’t know.  Who knows, maybe a Yorkshire club just over the border might fancy it and they’ll be much closer to most than others.

For what is effectively the 8th to 10th levels of rugby there’s a lot of travelling for people like Birchfield
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Vadar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 19:22
Interesting to see an article about the success of the Lancashire Leagues in today's Daily Telegraph.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 19:23
Originally posted by Darth Vadar Darth Vadar wrote:

Interesting to see an article about the success of the Lancashire Leagues in today's Daily Telegraph.

The club they quoted are now playing at their lowest ever status and used to run many teams too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Vadar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 23:59
The point being what exactly?

Like the other Clubs in the Lancashire Leagues, they are content to let League position determine the level they play at rather than have their judgement clouded by 'ambition'.

It is level 7, but so what?

There was an excellent article a few weeks ago in the Guardian  about another Club (in the same league and also playing at their lowest ever level too). They made the point about having  made the mistake of chasing the Holy Grail for far too long and overstretching  themselves in the process,  when what they actually should have been doing was getting as many people as possible playing and enjoying the sport.

At the end of the day, isn't that what it is all about?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 10:22
Originally posted by Darth Vadar Darth Vadar wrote:

The point being what exactly?

Like the other Clubs in the Lancashire Leagues, they are content to let League position determine the level they play at rather than have their judgement clouded by 'ambition'.

It is level 7, but so what?

There was an excellent article a few weeks ago in the Guardian  about another Club (in the same league and also playing at their lowest ever level too). They made the point about having  made the mistake of chasing the Holy Grail for far too long and overstretching  themselves in the process,  when what they actually should have been doing was getting as many people as possible playing and enjoying the sport.

At the end of the day, isn't that what it is all about?





Agreed Darth, however don't most spectators want to watch a decent standard of rugby - having watched a local game at the beginning of the year when the Raiders were in the West Country, I couldn't watch that every other week
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Vadar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2020 at 09:44
Depends which side of the fence you want to sit on.

Personally, I watch and support a Community Rugby Club at level 7, where the lads are out there doing their very best, playing because they want to and not because a Club is 'ambitious'.  

Those same players (and their families) who attend I know personally and they are all happy to spend time in the Clubhouse enjoying the rugby environment and talking about the match, paying their weekly subs, as well as selling you raffle tickets after the game to raise money for Club funds.  

Oh, and the standard of rugby on show ain't too bad either.

Result: an honest and open Club that is well run and well managed, and is busy both before and after the game. 

Ultimately, isn't that what rugby is all about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 09:43
That was always my understanding - funded by club members paying a reasonable amount ,using the facilities and working for the commonngood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greeneyed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 09:59
Which is why we could use new nomenclature to distinguish between clubs such as you describe above, and those above Level Three (and others!) which are BUSINESSES. Should the RFU be giving financial support to those without a appropriate injection from the owners/stakeholders? Think Branson and Virgin. And what about those clubs which have been reinvesting the proceeds of property sales to build super new facilities with commensurate fixed overheads and are now in trouble. Should RFU money be going there too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote red rose lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 14:34
Littleborough were promoted and said they will stay in this league to accomdate Eccles
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darth Vadar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2020 at 23:38
So I hear, and what a tremendous gesture by Littleborough that is.

Imagine that. Somebody doing that for the overall well well being of the competition.

Sums up some of the aims and objectives of the Clubs and the Lancashire Leagues perfectly.
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