National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Ringfencing is here
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Ringfencing is here

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
billesleyexile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Location: North Oxon
Status: Offline
Points: 1076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 16:24
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/english-rugby-shake-up-includes-new-pound12m-television-deal-for-re-modelled-championship/

and RugbyPass has got the full details.

I'm sorry, but this is actually worse than even I thought

 - the Championship to go to 16 teams over 2 years but initially to be sealed off at top and bottom
- 60 academy players to be playing in the Championship at any one time 
- each Championship side to have a squad of 35 of which 12 must be academy players (whose salaries will be paid centrally and not come under a salary cap *minimum* of £600k per season
- the £600k minimum must be spent per team per year on the other 23 players *of which* only 10 players per squad may be over the age of 24.

Meanwhile...

 - the Prem sides would undertake to draft a minimum of 48 players from the Championship every year and undertake to sign no young English player who isn't playing in the Championship

so essentially, let's pull up the draw bridge. Let's gut the clubs below the Championship for every player of any talent who isn't already playing for a championship club, and let's overtly be a nursery league.

It's like the end of the Bridge on the River Kwai - madness....

keep the faith
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 2025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 16:33
Yes too elaborate and a camouflaged ring fence.
pappashanga
Back to Top
gerg_861 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Ealing
Status: Online
Points: 953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 16:40
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

I bet the majority were Irish.

It was about 50:50, though hard to tell in pictures as both teams wear green as their primary colours. If Ealing get 4000 in regularly and half are from the visiting team, I'm not that bothered. More people going to watch Rugby is a good thing to me.
Back to Top
Kimbo View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: 'incleh
Status: Offline
Points: 4161
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 16:47
Originally posted by billesleyexile billesleyexile wrote:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/english-rugby-shake-up-includes-new-pound12m-television-deal-for-re-modelled-championship/

and RugbyPass has got the full details.

I'm sorry, but this is actually worse than even I thought

 - the Championship to go to 16 teams over 2 years but initially to be sealed off at top and bottom
- 60 academy players to be playing in the Championship at any one time 
- each Championship side to have a squad of 35 of which 12 must be academy players (whose salaries will be paid centrally and not come under a salary cap *minimum* of £600k per season
- the £600k minimum must be spent per team per year on the other 23 players *of which* only 10 players per squad may be over the age of 24.

Meanwhile...

 - the Prem sides would undertake to draft a minimum of 48 players from the Championship every year and undertake to sign no young English player who isn't playing in the Championship

so essentially, let's pull up the draw bridge. Let's gut the clubs below the Championship for every player of any talent who isn't already playing for a championship club, and let's overtly be a nursery league.

It's like the end of the Bridge on the River Kwai - madness....

The ring-fencing aspect, I could almost stomach.
But this?
If this is adopted, they have killed rugby union for me.
I may just have purchased my last ever season ticket, and that probably for a truncated, largely meaningless 'season'.
I feel slightly cheated, and angry and sad in equal measure.
Our City,
Our Club
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 433
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 16:48
Alternative view - ringfencing isolates the clowns running the Premiership and Championship from the proper rugby clubs which is very much to the benefit of proper rugby clubs.


Back to Top
Dave the Dog View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad
Avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Location: Bedford
Status: Offline
Points: 32
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave the Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 17:01
Originally posted by Kimbo Kimbo wrote:

The ring-fencing aspect, I could almost stomach.
But this?
If this is adopted, they have killed rugby union for me.
I may just have purchased my last ever season ticket, and that probably for a truncated, largely meaningless 'season'.
I feel slightly cheated, and angry and sad in equal measure.


The only good news as far as I can see is that it completely unworkable and so won't be adopted.  I actually make it that 168 academy players will be involved with the Championship at any one time, with 60 of those going into a draft and at least 48 being drafted by Premiership sides in December (how does that work with most of the season still to run?)

And what happens if you have 15 decent players in your squad who came up together and all turned 25 at the same time?  Do you say to 5 of them that they'll have to find somewhere else to play as you need to bring in some players who are worse than them, but younger?

I'm not sure why the Championship club committees have given this their backing, unless it's just a negotiating tool - "give us what we really want, or we'll run with this and destroy English rugby..." 

Angry
Back to Top
billesleyexile View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Location: North Oxon
Status: Offline
Points: 1076
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 17:11
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Alternative view - ringfencing isolates the clowns running the Premiership and Championship from the proper rugby clubs which is very much to the benefit of proper rugby clubs.



Well not for the first time I'm glad we're not at level 2 at the moment - but I'm really not one of the ones who was being accused earlier in the thread of coming onto the Championship board to crow at the Championship and how bad it is - my (probably slightly broken record) feeling about level 3 being preferable was in large part because I've been convinced for some time that someone was going to try and pull a stunt like this. I just never thought it would be the level 2 clubs in fairness...

But if Covid means money's tight and this could be stomached by the boards as saving enough face I suspect it could be passed at least for consideration.
keep the faith
Back to Top
Richard Lowther View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: 19 May 2007
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 4953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 17:22
And there's me thinking Age discrimination was illegal in the UK.... 
Moderator National League Rugby Message Boards



Remember Wakefield RFC
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 2025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 18:13
Excellent point
pappashanga
Back to Top
PiffPaff View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 684
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 18:25
Clearly RFU Comps will take it all on-board, meanwhile........

........in 10 Days time RFU Comps will release the proposed Competition structures for 2021/22

Level 3 will remain 16 Teams (old Nat 1)
Level 4 will be 4 x as close to RFU Divisional (Regions) Leagues with 14 Teams in Each (old Nat 2N & 2S - teams from old Level 5 will be "uplifted" to fill in the gaps with a cascade effect from bottom up to re-balance the lower leagues)

Level 5 will be 12 Team Leagues unless regional variations means more/less teams (old Regional Premier)
Level 6 will be 12 Team Leagues
Level 7 down will be 12 Team Leagues or in some Regions 10 Team Leagues or less 

Talk of lower League National Cups comps with  differing structures.

Point 1
2nd XVs of Clubs from Level 3-5 will be allowed to participate in the RFU Leagues with a ceiling of not being able to play higher than Level 7 which will be reviewed after 1st year and which then may rise to Level 6.

Point 2
Don't think this includes any Clubs in the North West outside of the RFU Leagues (ie, Lancashire Lge and North West Lge)

Pretty sure the Clubs in the North rejected Point 1 when the RFU did their "listening surveys" also told that any further planned "discussions" will now NOT take place as planned.

Prove me wrong those in the know........... or wait 10 days!


Edited by PiffPaff - 31 Jul 2020 at 18:26
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 18:33
Point 1 already happens with the likes of London Scottish, Irish, Welsh (hence how they got to restart in H&M 1 rather than the bottom), Ealing and a lot of the Sussex teams too. 
Back to Top
PiffPaff View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 684
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 18:53
Hi Robb, think Welsh are Welsh i.e the 1st XV after the collapse of the previous body, aren't Irish Ams a separate entity now? Didn't Scottish rebrand the lowers XVs as the Lions. Allowing lower XVs in the RFu Leagues isn't new (see SW Leagues) in the North it is due to other organised Leagues Comps.
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 848
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 19:26
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Hi Robb, think Welsh are Welsh i.e the 1st XV after the collapse of the previous body, aren't Irish Ams a separate entity now? Didn't Scottish rebrand the lowers XVs as the Lions. Allowing lower XVs in the RFu Leagues isn't new (see SW Leagues) in the North it is due to other organised Leagues Comps.
That's how they got around the rules. London Welsh Amateur were a separate club legally and just adopted the London Welsh name after the liquidation of the original club. Likewise LIARFC and the Scots have done that too. 
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 20:45
Piff Paff, I fear you will be right.
it smacks of doing the very minimum so as not to upset those in power, no need to change the existing divisions of CBs.
However it probably will not actually solve any of the problems.
   
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Halliford View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 17 Feb 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 22:49
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Clearly RFU Comps will take it all on-board, meanwhile........

........in 10 Days time RFU Comps will release the proposed Competition structures for 2021/22

Level 3 will remain 16 Teams (old Nat 1)
Level 4 will be 4 x as close to RFU Divisional (Regions) Leagues with 14 Teams in Each (old Nat 2N & 2S - teams from old Level 5 will be "uplifted" to fill in the gaps with a cascade effect from bottom up to re-balance the lower leagues)

Level 5 will be 12 Team Leagues unless regional variations means more/less teams (old Regional Premier)
Level 6 will be 12 Team Leagues
Level 7 down will be 12 Team Leagues or in some Regions 10 Team Leagues or less 

Talk of lower League National Cups comps with  differing structures.

Point 1
2nd XVs of Clubs from Level 3-5 will be allowed to participate in the RFU Leagues with a ceiling of not being able to play higher than Level 7 which will be reviewed after 1st year and which then may rise to Level 6.

Point 2
Don't think this includes any Clubs in the North West outside of the RFU Leagues (ie, Lancashire Lge and North West Lge)

Pretty sure the Clubs in the North rejected Point 1 when the RFU did their "listening surveys" also told that any further planned "discussions" will now NOT take place as planned.

Prove me wrong those in the know........... or wait 10 days!

I won’t claim to be in the know any more than anyone else involved with the NCA but PiffPaff is not entirely right.

Level 3 will be 14 teams; Level 3 will be 3 Leagues of 14 (my suggestion was an M1 League, an M5 League and an M62 League.

2nd and 3rd XVs will be allowed to join the main Leagues with a ceiling of 3 Leagues below their 1st XV - so Richmond play at Level 2, their Vikings at Level 5 and their Saxons at Level 8.

Currently only the SouthWest Division allow 2nd XVs in the main Leagues and then only up to Level 9. 

This is controversial but seen as the best way to get meaningful rugby below 1st XVs.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2020 at 23:48
Eastern Counties, Hampshire and Sussex permit second teams in the county leagues  level 9.

Blood and Sand
Back to Top
workerbee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 20 May 2009
Location: Wirral
Status: Offline
Points: 581
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote workerbee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 09:37
Surely it would be crazy to introduce the restructured leagues until both the Premiership and Championship have decided their restructure , you could have a situation of Nat 1 going down to 14 teams and relegating 5 clubs then the Championship going up to 16 teams taking 4 from Nat 1 which would reverse the relegation in the previous year, at the same time the Premiership goes up to 14 teams taking 2 from the championship again having a cascade effect on the leagues below. So clubs a level 3/4 will yoyo between leagues and players will never know what level they are playing at.
Please if anyone has any sense (don't hold your breath with the RFU) let us start from the top otherwise will will have so much chaos in the structure for the next 5 years and that on top of Covid could Kill a lot of clubs.   
Back to Top
Hopping Mad View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 978
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopping Mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 10:50
The proposed restructure option put before clubs could be changed and be potentially more radical than is currently on the table.

RFU have widened the brief of the committee looking at the league structure. Sweeney and his support have spoken to lots of clubs up and down the pyramid and recognise you can’t look at the league structure in isolation to other issues.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7190
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 11:01
You might think that, I could not possibly comment.
Especially as we do not know if all the clubs will survive this season, or lack of one.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Neasham View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 09 May 2014
Location: County Durham
Status: Offline
Points: 369
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neasham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2020 at 12:40
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

Clearly RFU Comps will take it all on-board, meanwhile........

........in 10 Days time RFU Comps will release the proposed Competition structures for 2021/22

Level 3 will remain 16 Teams (old Nat 1)
Level 4 will be 4 x as close to RFU Divisional (Regions) Leagues with 14 Teams in Each (old Nat 2N & 2S - teams from old Level 5 will be "uplifted" to fill in the gaps with a cascade effect from bottom up to re-balance the lower leagues)

Level 5 will be 12 Team Leagues unless regional variations means more/less teams (old Regional Premier)
Level 6 will be 12 Team Leagues
Level 7 down will be 12 Team Leagues or in some Regions 10 Team Leagues or less 

Talk of lower League National Cups comps with  differing structures.

Point 1
2nd XVs of Clubs from Level 3-5 will be allowed to participate in the RFU Leagues with a ceiling of not being able to play higher than Level 7 which will be reviewed after 1st year and which then may rise to Level 6.

Point 2
Don't think this includes any Clubs in the North West outside of the RFU Leagues (ie, Lancashire Lge and North West Lge)

Pretty sure the Clubs in the North rejected Point 1 when the RFU did their "listening surveys" also told that any further planned "discussions" will now NOT take place as planned.

Prove me wrong those in the know........... or wait 10 days!

The crucial thing missing from your “leak” is how many leagues there will be at each level. RFU very keen to reduce travel and were promising more closer to home games. 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.