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Rugby Union Winter Survival Fund

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Camp Freddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 11:30
Raider, these are only the clubs that got the maximum of £50, many other clubs would have also received between £0 - £49k who applied
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 13:05
I am surprised the information  that the clubs receiving the loans has been disclosed. I would of thought it would have been confidential,but what do I know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 17:33
That information was released to certain RFU Staff and some Council Members so read in to that what you will.

Personally I don't think telling the world who got what helps those clubs it just adds pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2021 at 18:03
Still contradiction between grants and loans - which is it?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 15:04
I understand from our Finance man that to qualify for a grant you had to prove that you would effectively go bust over the summer months (and presumably then unable to begin the 21/22 season in September) thus throwing the whole league structure into turmoil. I am sure there are some bona fide cases amongst that list of 90 but equally, as others have pointed out, there are many who have always been regarded as affluent with big playing budgets and in my opinion highly unlikely to go bust in the next few months although I am clearly not "privy" to their current financial positions. Just seems very odd! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2021 at 17:42
I don't think I've accused anyone of falsely claiming, just that it seemed odd!



Edited by Thatbloke - 25 Mar 2021 at 17:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2021 at 07:47
Having personally completed the grant application form for my Club I don’t recognise the comments made by ThatBloke’s Finance person. One anomaly arose which was that the Form couldn’t cope with bank accounts which were in overdraft! I did point out to the RFU, and they agreed, that offering a Survival Fund 10 months after we had shut down seemed to ignore all the work clubs had already done to ensure they continued through to the summer. I haven’t yet heard how much we will get, if anything, but the decisions we have already made and the other grants and donations we have received will ensure we are ready to go for next season. The Winter Survival grant, though, will enable us to do a lot of the work we have deferred and which can’t be done by our superb volunteers. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2021 at 22:57
Some clubs on there who’ll be in a very healthy financial position after this.
Crowdfunds, grants, limited outgoings..........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 08:03
The important thing is that those Clubs who have received grants will be able to play, to host mini, junior and women’s rugby and to give us all somewhere to moan at each other over a pint!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2021 at 15:48
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The important thing is that those Clubs who have received grants will be able to play, to host mini, junior and women’s rugby and to give us all somewhere to moan at each other over a pint!

And pay lots of lads next season
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 09:27
Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The important thing is that those Clubs who have received grants will be able to play, to host mini, junior and women’s rugby and to give us all somewhere to moan at each other over a pint!

And pay lots of lads next season

Definitely not allowed! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2021 at 22:41
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The important thing is that those Clubs who have received grants will be able to play, to host mini, junior and women’s rugby and to give us all somewhere to moan at each other over a pint!

And pay lots of lads next season

Definitely not allowed! 

So are you saying a condition of accepting a grant is you don’t pay anyone next season?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 08:23
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:

The important thing is that those Clubs who have received grants will be able to play, to host mini, junior and women’s rugby and to give us all somewhere to moan at each other over a pint!

And pay lots of lads next season

Definitely not allowed! 
No, I’m saying that the grant cannot be used towards the payment of players. You are now going to argue that because Clubs have received this money it frees up other money to pay players next season. The answer to that is that Clubs first have to exist to pay players, secondly they will have to decide within their own budget structure and the payment limits how much they can afford to spend on players. Sadly, players don’t commit to long National League seasons for nothing anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 09:50
Just listened to the Lancashire Rugby podcast https://bluerugby1881.podbean.com/e/the-lancashire-rugby-podcast-episode-39/ and they announced that £1 Million in WSSF has been shared out to 30 Clubs in the County.

You have to provide records for an Audit on how you spent your grant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopping Mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 20:39
Absolutely outrageous that certain clubs have been given free money but will then return to their hand to mouths existence because they pay most of their income in over inflated wages.

That the fund doesn’t stipulate a pay back if you pay players (irrespective that these funds are not directly used to pay them - although whose checking?) is itself another example of the ludicrous protect at all costs notion of paying monies that clubs can’t afford.

Two clubs on that list still throwing money at players yet pleading poverty. Unbelievable doesn’t even cover it. 


Edited by Hopping Mad - 29 Mar 2021 at 20:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 20:57
Have to agree Hopping Mad but having made a similar point earlier in the thread was battered down! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billesleyexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 08:40
Originally posted by Hopping Mad Hopping Mad wrote:

Absolutely outrageous that certain clubs have been given free money but will then return to their hand to mouths existence because they pay most of their income in over inflated wages.

That the fund doesn’t stipulate a pay back if you pay players (irrespective that these funds are not directly used to pay them - although whose checking?) is itself another example of the ludicrous protect at all costs notion of paying monies that clubs can’t afford.

Two clubs on that list still throwing money at players yet pleading poverty. Unbelievable doesn’t even cover it. 

Not singling you out, but this is the problem with threads like this - it's really difficult to navigate them and understand how to calibrate the outrage when people don't name the clubs.

Obviously, I can understand entirely why people don't want to - might be wrong, possible repercussions, etc, but it's all nods and winks.

I don't know enough of other club's finances to know who you're talking about, and whether I agree or not. 

Hell, I don't even know enough about the finances of the club I support...

Having said that, I can picture our set-up, in my mind's eye, and I'm more sympathetic to the argument from someone back on page one that if you've got a lot of plant - multi-hundred banqueting, full-time non-playing staff, etc, and those income streams have gone, then that's different to a club that has a match day bar and is hosing money at players. 

But as said I can't look at that list and work out easily which set up is which. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 14:13
Originally posted by Hopping Mad Hopping Mad wrote:

Absolutely outrageous that certain clubs have been given free money but will then return to their hand to mouths existence because they pay most of their income in over inflated wages.

That the fund doesn’t stipulate a pay back if you pay players (irrespective that these funds are not directly used to pay them - although whose checking?) is itself another example of the ludicrous protect at all costs notion of paying monies that clubs can’t afford.

Two clubs on that list still throwing money at players yet pleading poverty. Unbelievable doesn’t even cover it. 

Totally agree. There is more than two that I struggle to believe, especially if you count the Clubs throwing money at big name DoR's.

The qualifying criteria related to your Club accounts for the last full year pre Covid-19 but, what is entered in Cub accounts and what goes on elsewhere is another story. 
There are very clear guidelines on what you can and cannot use this money for but not sure of who will police this?.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 14:19
If you have knowledge of false accounting HMRC are over there.
Otherwise it - like much of this thred - is so much white wine vinegar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 15:03
It's absolutely outrageous that I can suggest what I like about clubs engaging in all sorts of unethical behaviour without naming anyone or providing any evidence and some people don't believe me!
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