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Salary cap article

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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Salary cap article
    Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 15:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 20:13
Blooming amazing one of the clubs that over the years has totally overpaid now driving for cuts. If they cannot afford to pay don’t offer the wages. You don’t have to spend up to the cap after all if you believe everything you hear everybody pays hardly anything and are nowhere near the cap which we all know is a load of tosh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 22:01
Unbelievable from the man who drove up money paid in Nat 2 and then again in Nat 1. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 22:05
Originally posted by paddym paddym wrote:

Unbelievable from the man who drove up money paid in Nat 2 and then again in Nat 1. 


I seem to recall they went up on the back of 1 large sponsor - perhaps the money has run out? If so shame!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 22:34
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Blooming amazing one of the clubs that over the years has totally overpaid now driving for cuts. If they cannot afford to pay don’t offer the wages. You don’t have to spend up to the cap after all if you believe everything you hear everybody pays hardly anything and are nowhere near the cap which we all know is a load of tosh

Exactly.
The Salary Cap is a 'Cap' not a 'target'.
If Chinnor only want to spend £150k on players, no problem, get on with it.
If other Clubs stay within the cap but spend more than Chinnor they will probably finish higher in the league, which is obviously what Chinnor are worried about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intouch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 08:06
Matt Williams has left Chinnor along with Ricky Khan this week, they are both joining London Scottish for the 20/21 season
Dan George  the head forwards coach went some weeks ago.
Several players have also left this week and agreed deals with London Scottish for next season, including Nick Selway



Edited by Intouch - 25 Apr 2020 at 09:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwinpenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 08:58
Oh dear.  Now what happens!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote All the Way Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 09:27
Sounds like Chinnor wants to reduce it's salaries, but remain competitive by insisting all clubs do the same.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 09:48
It’s at times like these you see how deep the foundations are
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Intouch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 09:57
Very good Rabbie

Vickers -Rectory homes -Chinnor - Foundation’s  

Very clever play that 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 10:41
Especially when I wasn’t being that clever and only realised it now you point it out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DGS Old Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 10:51
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Blooming amazing one of the clubs that over the years has totally overpaid now driving for cuts. If they cannot afford to pay don’t offer the wages. You don’t have to spend up to the cap after all if you believe everything you hear everybody pays hardly anything and are nowhere near the cap which we all know is a load of tosh

Exactly.
The Salary Cap is a 'Cap' not a 'target'.
If Chinnor only want to spend £150k on players, no problem, get on with it.
If other Clubs stay within the cap but spend more than Chinnor they will probably finish higher in the league, which is obviously what Chinnor are worried about.

 
Fully agree with Sid its a Cap something not to be exceeded and is a club's prerogative how much they allocate to a playing budget as long as the cap isn't exceeded.

Another question is what happens to the clubs who have already signed up players in accordance with last seasons salary cap, they can't revise their agreements now they have been finalised.

It's interesting that Chinnor are losing players and their coach, is that a sign they can not offer the same value contracts as last season?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote The Falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 15:02
I have followed Rolling Maul for many years and observed many constructive discussions along with others not so constructive based on hearsay and half truths. I have watched silently as we have been criticised as we have come through the leagues for one thing or another and various rumours and speculation repeated . However this issue is of such importance that I do feel the need to inform the debate. Of course everyone is entitled to disagree but I would hope in these circumstances everyone is able to address the issues I raise constructively  and stay away from personal attacks.

I was Captain of Chinnor in the 80’s , have been its principal sponsor for some 25 years and been Chairman and President and Board member for a combined total of 12 years.

I have come to accept and respect that all clubs have their own way of doing things and providing they comply with the rules and regulations then all is fair . Integrity is also important . 

Therefore in these extraordinary circumstances I have tried to start an honest debate on some fundamental issues and if there is an element of self interest in the proposals I would respectfully suggest that is no more than most of those that comment also apply . However believe it or not my approach is principally driven by a care of the whole game and how it will look in a year or two and going forward.

It is the case that this situation we find ourselves in is unprecedented and already has caused more instant economic and social disruption than anyone thought possible. Apart from supermarkets ,Amazon and PPE manufacturers every business in the land has had to make savage cuts ,many temporary and many permanent including mine. I have been a Principal of a Company through three major recessions but have never seen anything like this. I do believe that it will not be as long lasting as they normally are but it is more instantly brutal and will require intensive thought and action if one is to survive. Unfortunately for some , nothing they do will enable them to withstand the sheer force of this and they will lose everything they have worked for. We do need to gain some degree of perspective therefore as at the end of the day this is just a game and we need therefore to apportion the degree of risk that we should sensibly bear. I am very fortunate to have a Board at Chinnor that are very experienced in commerce and we have carried out many permutations on budgets and in no scenario is there anything other than a massive reduction in income and I do not see how any other Club at any level could arrive at any other conclusion . Historically we have had a casualty between the Champ and the next three levels down of maybe 1 Club every 3 or 4 seasons where a club has over extended themselves in the quest for promotion .I fear that if Clubs do not make major contingency plans now then that number could multiply many times over within the space of 12-18 months.  Indeed our current worst forecasts show two months of cancelled play but I am most rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is a significant prospect of no play at all in our Game which involves extreme personal contact and I fail to see how in the absence of a vaccine you can ask anyone to go and do battle. Such a vaccine is I gather many months if not a year or two away and regardless of the financial concerns of what the future might hold   it is on that  point alone we should be exercising extreme caution .

Believe me when I say that the last thing  in my mind is to try and level the field so that we might come top. Our principal aim currently as a Board is to ensure that we put no one in harms way and that we ensure the survival of our Club.

I see that some Clubs are not proposing any cuts to their budget and whilst I wish them good luck I wonder how they might produce the revenue to support it as if by some slim chance we do start in September then lunch attendance will be tricky and even if rules permit crowds of 300- 1000 , many spectators might not take the risk and if they do attend will they stay on for their usual beers after the game. And of course will it be fair to prevail on sponsors for their usual amount if they have laid people off and are struggling financially ?

For the record the proposals also included that the salary cap should be mandatory with more than a slap on a wrist as otherwise there is no point in having it.We also asked that, as the Premiership have agreed , we do not recruit  each other’s players at the same level for now albeit we have always sent players up a league with our blessing. We have already had several players being made offers by a couple of other clubs at this level .

For our part we have taken measures that ensure we will be fine but we remain very concerned about what shape if any next season will be . Of course as part of those measures we will be reducing the amount we pay players and that has meant that if other clubs are maintaining their wage structure from this season they will be minded to move on . 

It appears Premiership and Championship Clubs are already looking to address their cost base  and indeed across all of professional sport including football the debate and issue is being addressed. Why would National League Rugby be exempt from the storm that awaits?

My proposals that were agreed in principle by many Clubs in Nat 1 were intended to help preserve in tact hopefully the whole of our league and below .Of course no one needs to spend more than they wish to and should not spend more than they can afford. We do know that the latter has happened from time to time in the past and I believe there are substantial risks of it happening over the next 12 months to many Clubs and that could change the landscape of a league that has many outstanding parts.

We have greatly enjoyed our time in National 1 and made many new friends and renewed old acquaintances as well as contributing to the great spectacles we have all provided.

I am proud of our achievements at Chinnor over the last 10 years and without these extraordinary events we would have been continuing with our aim of gaining promotion. I am most proud however  of the fantastic efforts from the purely amateur side and the hundreds of minis and juniors that our volunteers have nurtured over the years and we must not put  at risk that tremendous investment of effort. 

 So for now our attention turns to prudence , health and safety and our ability to be able to start again when circumstances permit  at all levels . After all there are far greater issues that we and the world are needing to deal with.

Stay safe 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 15:14
Clubs that have been propped up by 1 major sponsor are obviously going to suffer if the money stops coming in.

It is far to late to change budgets for next season - many players will have contracts for next season which were signed before the Virus hit our sport - possibly even some of Chinnor's players.

It is therefore far too late to change the budget for next season - but possibly time to get a lower budget cap agreed for 21-22 by agreement with other clubs.

In the mean time it should be remembered this is a Maximum spend and nothing forces clubs to spend this amount if they want to reduce outgoings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwinpenn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 15:25
Originally posted by The Falcon The Falcon wrote:

I have followed Rolling Maul for many years and observed many constructive discussions along with others not so constructive based on hearsay and half truths. I have watched silently as we have been criticised as we have come through the leagues for one thing or another and various rumours and speculation repeated . However this issue is of such importance that I do feel the need to inform the debate. Of course everyone is entitled to disagree but I would hope in these circumstances everyone is able to address the issues I raise constructively  and stay away from personal attacks.

I was Captain of Chinnor in the 80’s , have been its principal sponsor for some 25 years and been Chairman and President and Board member for a combined total of 12 years.

I have come to accept and respect that all clubs have their own way of doing things and providing they comply with the rules and regulations then all is fair . Integrity is also important . 

.......

I am proud of our achievements at Chinnor over the last 10 years and without these extraordinary events we would have been continuing with our aim of gaining promotion. I am most proud however  of the fantastic efforts from the purely amateur side and the hundreds of minis and juniors that our volunteers have nurtured over the years and we must not put  at risk that tremendous investment of effort. 

 So for now our attention turns to prudence , health and safety and our ability to be able to start again when circumstances permit  at all levels . After all there are far greater issues that we and the world are needing to deal with.

Stay safe 
I know I am biased, but its hard to find a fault with the logic in Simon's posting. 

Clubs that have already signed contracts with employees (thats what they are after all) and state that there will be no changes are potentially going to push themselves to the edge even quicker.   
Rugby is no different to any other mass participation audience event and I would ask "Will you be flocking to Twickenham for the 6 Nations when there is no vaccination?" If you are, then let me know because you can have my tickets!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 16:11
Obviously you are biased DWinPenn

I remember going to games at Chinnor where the crowd was 250-300 (not that long ago) yet your budget was apparently 2 or 3 times ours - how - you were being bankrolled.

Didn't hear you or you Chairman looking for budget caps then?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DGS Old Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 16:54
Its interesting listening to the arguments regarding a salary cap, National one already has a salary cap which as stated earlier is exactly that, a maximum budget figure for the clubs and clubs can either pay to its maximum or not as they see fit.

A major flaw in the system is how is the salary cap defined and policed? 

The current level was set in consultation with the clubs and the clubs were happy with it because it was set at a level that most of the clubs either couldn't afford to exceed or didn't want to so it is easy to police, however, if the salary cap is reduced there will be a number of ambitious clubs who will work around it and break it to attract the better players to give them an advantage, these clubs will be the ones who have a benefactor who is willing to "employ" players separately to the club they are sponsoring thus keeping that clubs playing budget below the salary cap, even with the current salary cap it is happening throughout the divisions resulting in those clubs going on to win promotion.

Summing up it would be very difficult to police, and it would hand an advantage to those clubs who have the type of benefactor who is prepared to help them bend the rules. 

and at risk of repeating myself it is up to the clubs how much they want to allocate to a playing budget as long as they don't exceed the set salary cap levels, nothing is broken so nothing needs fixing!!!
    



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 18:41
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Obviously you are biased DWinPenn

I remember going to games at Chinnor where the crowd was 250-300 (not that long ago) yet your budget was apparently 2 or 3 times ours - how - you were being bankrolled.

Didn't hear you or you Chairman looking for budget caps then?


What goes around comes around

But isn't the point being made now is that circumstances have changed and with it the need to re-evaluate the salary cap?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 19:57
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

Obviously you are biased DWinPenn

I remember going to games at Chinnor where the crowd was 250-300 (not that long ago) yet your budget was apparently 2 or 3 times ours - how - you were being bankrolled.

Didn't hear you or you Chairman looking for budget caps then?


What goes around comes around


But isn't the point being made now is that circumstances have changed and with it the need to re-evaluate the salary cap?


Things have changed, however if players have contracts then these are legally enforceable (should the players want to) - just because some clubs have no money it is not a reason to change what is already set in stone and agreed by all clubs.

I can imagine Chinnor's response if this had been proposed last summer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 20:29
They would have ignored it as they did
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