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Topic ClosedSale have withdrawn from the NCA Agreement

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Raider999 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 19:45
Originally posted by JJC JJC wrote:

Is this NCA 'Gentleman's Agreement' the case for both Nat 1 & 2 ?


Only applies to N1 who last year were allowed up to 10 DR/loan players in their match-day squad.

Although there was general indignation at this from most people, somehow this rule was not changed for this year(oversight?) hence clubs agreed to a gentleman so agreement to reduce this number.

N2 still has the old regulation in place.
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2019 at 20:31
As far as we know Sale FC have not yet broken the agreement, and we only have the word of someone Big Eddie met in the pub that there is any intention that they might do so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 07:13
Sorry Camquin Sale have sent out an e mail that has been circulated to Nat 1 clubs stating this.you are correct however that until now there has been no breech of agreement.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 08:23
Clearly certain members of Caldy are still smarting from Sale doing the double over them this season.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 09:20
Originally posted by Roti Roti wrote:

Clearly certain members of Caldy are still smarting from Sale doing the double over them this season.

Some of us may well be , but I guess that that's a given in a competition of this level and intensity never mind in a local derby over NW bragging rights Wink

The headline here, however, is about Sale's withdrawal mid-season from a gentleman's agreement which itself highlighted and addressed a general held view and concern that there was something not quite right - basically contrived, unfair, unjust and, therefore, questionable - about the RFU's rulings on dual registration, EAPs, loan players etc.

Yeah, we know, we started this thread but, for me and, maybe, others, your own signature's high ideals and noble intentions, 

"Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is success"

now seems strangely at odds with your club's approach to a pretty straightforward agreement Shocked


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 11:14
Good post Bee Bumble.

People say that the NCA Agreement is something called a 'Gentleman's Agreement'. 

For me an Agreement is an Agreement pure and simple. There maybe no enforceable sanction for breaking such an Agreement but it is very clearly an act of bad faith if someone breaks it. 

In business I would question whether I should do business with such a person again because I would question their character and their trustworthiness.. 


Edited by Big Eddie - 17 Jan 2019 at 11:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 16:20
Maybe Caldy should refuse to play Sale again then?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 16:44
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Maybe Caldy should refuse to play Sale again then?

In some ways that would be an appropriate response WEvans. 

But I am sure that will not happen. The purpose of my post was to draw attention to the fact that calling the Agreement between N1 clubs a Gentleman's Agreement does not somehow excuse or lessen the very poor form in the breaking of an Agreement freely entered into by all clubs at the start of the campaign.

Do I think worse of Sale FC for doing this..........yes. Will Sale be bothered .......NO

The only point in Sale's mitigation is that they have written to the NCA to tell them they are going to break the Agreement. On a scale of 1 to 10 in mitigation it hovers around a 1.

I am surprised that Jimbojetset has not provided an explanation for Sale's behaviour however I do expect he is just embarrassed and a little chastened by his club's actions. Was this a decision taken by the Sale Director of Rugby? 

Personally I have always thought Sale DOR Jonathan Keep to be a good straight forward guy so personally I doubt it is him. Maybe it was a Sale Committee decision?

I am sure Jimbo Lad will know the rationale and the decision making process behind this and it would be interesting for Jimbo to provide some context and perhaps an explanation.








Edited by Big Eddie - 17 Jan 2019 at 16:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 17:48
If Sale FC's intention is to withdraw from this agreement during this season, then the NCA should tell them NO. If this agreement was entered into by the NCA and all 16 Nat One Clubs, then the agreement should run until after the last Round of this season's games.
When discussions are taking place regarding Laws,Rules, Regulations and agreements for next season, then Sale FC should voice their concerns about the current agreement. After discussions between the NCA and the Nat One Clubs, this current agreement should, stand or be changed, depending on the wishes of the majority of Clubs.
ALL Clubs, including Sale FC, should then stand by whatever decision is made. If Sale FC still don't want to abide by this decision, then they should be Punished.
I'll leave this punishment to be debated by this Forum.

Whatever happens, we can't have one Club in any League, in any Sport, playing to different Rules, Regulations or agreements to all other Clubs in that League.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 18:27
You've lumped laws,rules, regulations and agreements together W14, but gentlemen's agreements are different, aren't they, in that they can't be enforced and therefore the gentlemen making them can't be punished?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 21:14
If you remember Nat 1 clubs voted against the current DR rules by 14-2 (if my memory is correct) only to have the 8 rule imposed by the premiership teams and then the agreement between the clubs to 6. Yes that same premiership that’s now threatening to break away. Hopefully we can tell them to do one in the summer and return to the position of several years ago where DRs were available for most clubs that wanted them rather than the select few that use them now.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2019 at 22:29
It was the RFU Governance Committee which ratified the 8 EAPs for this season, those voting in favour included RFU staff and a Premiership representative. That vote went against an agreement the NCA thought had been agreed to revert to 4 as per the previous arrangement. The agreement to use no more than 6 has no legal basis and thus no impact on League points. My Club has sought clarification on another point which we believe was agreed, that all 8 must have played for the Nat 1 Club before the transfer deadline at the end of February unless the player had been injured for the whole season.

Sale have just lost a few friends and will have to live with the views of other Clubs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 09:51
Originally posted by Halliford Halliford wrote:



Sale have just lost a few friends and will have to live with the views of other Clubs.

.
I think this quote hits the nail right on the head with a massive thump, and I find it a great shame because I think (but could be wrong, of course) that this decision may have forced upon them by circumstances beyond their control ???????
.
Having been to the grounds of all but 3 clubs in this division, I can honestly say they have all been enjoyable visits for various reasons. Each club has its own unique culture and history to be understood and respected, but somehow all this feels wrong to me and whatever happens this season needs to be properly addressed before next season starts.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 10:25
If something isn't binding in the official rules and therefore there is no sanction should a club go against a non-binding agreement, what did clubs expect to happen?
 
I'm not a Sale FC member or supporter but there is another situation developing here. The Sharks are doing great work with their academy. There is no North West side in the Championship. Where then do the young kids who are ready and/or need higher level experience go for game time?
 
Caldy's view is they don't want to have DR players. That is their perogative and the reasons for this have been put down with heartfelt sincerity by their posters on here. But it does mean reduced options for the Sharks academy boys.
 
If there are 8 available to go out who need minimum National One experience but there is only one NW club willing to give them game time, what do they do? If Caldy participated in the DR then 4 could go to each. It would stop the loading of one club as was the bone of contention with Leicester and Loughborough last season.
 
Again its all very well those in the South and South East with lots of representation in National One to bemoan what is happening in the North West but the bottom line is the Southern Premiership academies have more clubs to share their aspiring players around.
 
The Sharks are doing good work in the main with their Development strategy. I understand from those at my club that their relationship with the Sharks is the best it has been ever in terms of support. The NW clubs in National 2 have all been offered junior academy players for the season to aide their development.
 
Putting club allegiances to one side and also the alleged longer term vision for Sale FC, rugby in the North West needs to be strong enough to retain the players from this area in this area.
 
This is a small part of that but a vital one all the same.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 10:40
HM, I'm not bemoaning  what is happening, just disappointed. I take your point about Sale Sharks needing to put all 8 to Sale FC because Caldy don't want DRs and agree that it is easier for, say, Harlequins because they have both Esher and Rosslyn Park as well as Nat 2 Clubs.

Actually what I want is to see more players playing every Saturday. Too many players are left on the shelf at Premiership and Championship and don't get to play on a regular basis. That doesn't help them or their Clubs. 

Nice to see two former Esher DRS in the England squad for the 6 Nations!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 10:41
Looking at the Nat 1 table, with 10 of the 16 clubs candidates for relegation, it's no surprise this issue is getting people worked up...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 12:40
If the reason Sale FC has decided to unilaterally withdraw from the Agreement they made with all other National 1 clubs at the start of the season is down to their concern that they cannot get game time for the Sharks Development Squad that is a bit of a stretch for me.

Jimbo consistently reinforces the line that Sale FC is independent of Sale Sharks so why would Sale FC be concerned to break an Agreement to come to the aid of a Premiership club?

Caldy are picking up injuries and now have a significant number of frontline players on the long term injury list. Most Caldy supporters do not want DR/Loan Players to be the default way that National 1 rugby operates but they may have explored the Loan route with perhaps Sale Sharks among others although I do know that promoting from their highly succesful 2nd team is their normal policy.

I do not think it likely that Sale FC will feel any need to justify their withdrawl from the Agrrement they entered into because there is no sanction other than the opprobrium from the rest of National 1 that will come their way.......
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 12:42
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:

Maybe Caldy should refuse to play Sale again then?

In some ways that would be an appropriate response WEvans. 

But I am sure that will not happen. The purpose of my post was to draw attention to the fact that calling the Agreement between N1 clubs a Gentleman's Agreement does not somehow excuse or lessen the very poor form in the breaking of an Agreement freely entered into by all clubs at the start of the campaign.

Do I think worse of Sale FC for doing this..........yes. Will Sale be bothered .......NO

The only point in Sale's mitigation is that they have written to the NCA to tell them they are going to break the Agreement. On a scale of 1 to 10 in mitigation it hovers around a 1.

I am surprised that Jimbojetset has not provided an explanation for Sale's behaviour however I do expect he is just embarrassed and a little chastened by his club's actions. Was this a decision taken by the Sale Director of Rugby? 

Personally I have always thought Sale DOR Jonathan Keep to be a good straight forward guy so personally I doubt it is him. Maybe it was a Sale Committee decision?

I am sure Jimbo Lad will know the rationale and the decision making process behind this and it would be interesting for Jimbo to provide some context and perhaps an explanation.

I'm quite sure Jimbojetset can speak for himself but I have to say your constant haranguing of him is beginning to give the impression of bullying. Why not just give your opinion and leave others to reply if they wish? 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 12:58
Originally posted by WEvans WEvans wrote:


I'm quite sure Jimbojetset can speak for himself but I have to say your constant haranguing of him is beginning to give the impression of bullying. Why not just give your opinion and leave others to reply if they wish? 

Fair point, I have never met Jimbo but from his previous posts on Rolling Maul he does seem like a robust chap and as far as I am aware he is the only consistent poster from Sale FC on Rolling Maul. 

However if someone independent like you Mr Evans fairly believes I am overstepping the mark I will certainly take that onboard,because that is a reasonable and objective indication that perhaps I am.

I would not want to be causing any individual any form of distress and as I do not know anything about Jimbo as a person it is a fair call for me to stop referencing him particularly as his absence from this discussion may be because I have unfairly entwined him with Sale FC's recent actions.

So apologies to all and especially Jimbo if I have overstepped the mark...........I will avoid referencing Jimbo in any future posts on this matter because without knowing his views it probably is unfair for me to do so.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2019 at 14:27
Sale FC have two DRs in tomorrows line up, one playing out of position. Of the other nominated DRs one is suspended, one has long term injury and six are in tomorrow's SS team. Not exactly pushing the boundaries. 
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