National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > International Rugby
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Swing Low possible ban
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Swing Low possible ban

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Online
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Swing Low possible ban
    Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 17:29

There's apparently some plan by the RFU to ban Swing Low at England matches. I have to say if this is true, the world has trully gone mad. But I would also think that England fans will only stop singing Swing Low when hell freezes over.  There is no way in hell they would dare even try.
Back to Top
One For The Ditch View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular


Joined: 13 Jul 2018
Location: Newport
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote One For The Ditch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 18:06
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:


There's apparently some plan by the RFU to ban Swing Low at England matches. I have to say if this is true, the world has trully gone mad. But I would also think that England fans will only stop singing Swing Low when hell freezes over.  There is no way in hell they would dare even try.


I do hope that this is not true as my urine is already being perfectly well boiled......
Back to Top
MikeGC View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Location: Burnage
Status: Offline
Points: 416
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeGC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 18:08
It must be the worst "rugby" song in the world, I don’t really understand why we English sing it....
However, I’d rather it fall out of use as inappropriate rather than a ban
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Online
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 18:13
Originally posted by MikeGC MikeGC wrote:

It must be the worst "rugby" song in the world, I don’t really understand why we English sing it....
However, I’d rather it fall out of use as inappropriate rather than a ban

And what would you replace it with? It's not as if we have anything else we sing reguarly en masse. Without Swing Low, we have literally nothing.
Back to Top
Camp Freddie View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Location: Lancs
Status: Offline
Points: 88
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 19:29
In my view if they try to enforce a ban then the crowd will just sing with more gusto. How do you stop a stadium full of people singing if they want to ?

But this brings the issue forward that young modern players don't seem to sing anymore. If we as Old Boys travel to a game on a coach with the 1st XV it's us that lead the singing. does anyone else see this ?
The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Online
Points: 786
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 21:37
Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

In my view if they try to enforce a ban then the crowd will just sing with more gusto. How do you stop a stadium full of people singing if they want to ?

But this brings the issue forward that young modern players don't seem to sing anymore. If we as Old Boys travel to a game on a coach with the 1st XV it's us that lead the singing. does anyone else see this ?

True. And that really hurts me as a younger club member having been brought up by my playing father that we used to be known as a singing club and hearing how good the old boys are when they come, it really saddens me that we nowadays do not have that same repotoire.
Back to Top
Westcoaster View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Location: Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 1251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Westcoaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 22:25
It must be the worst "rugby" song in the world, I don’t really understand why we English sing it....
However, I’d rather it fall out of use as inappropriate rather than a ban.

I fully agree and certainly won't be sad to see it go. It has only been sung since the late 80s and has no connection with England.  Its marginally more cheerful than The National Anthem but that isn't saying much.  I remember when I played many moons ago, we sang rude versions of it in the back of school buses. It should never have been adapted as the England crowd song, but I suspect it came into being from dodgy, back of the bus experience !! 
Sadly we English don't have many obvious replacements, the Welsh have had all the best ones for decades :-( . We have some great and stirring music for the warm up time before the game and maybe half time, e.g. Pomp and Circumstance, The Battle of Britain theme; "For he is an Englishman"; the Dam Busters March; I vow to thee my country, the theme to 633 Squadron,  all come to mind, but not easy to sing along to as a crowd.  Of those my vote would go to "For he is an Englishman", maybe lead by a barmy army style lone trumpeter :-) It has a great stompy drum line running through it good which could be great for the crowd to pick up the rhythm. I suppose land of Hope and Glory and Rule Britannia are candidates but isn't the latter about Britain and not England ?!
Curve ball time, on the day we lost Vera Lynne, RIP, what about White Cliffs of Dover ?
As English as you can get and this could be awesome if the crowd really gets it and sings it half decently. I'd enjoy hearing 70,000 or so singing that at Twickenham.
Sorry to go on, I'm missing rugby...........maybe we'll meet again......
Come on Jersey........
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7068
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 22:55
It was sungin clubs long before the 80s - with all the actions. 
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
SmilingD View Drop Down
Mini and Juniors
Mini and Juniors
Avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2018
Location: Saffron Walden
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmilingD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 22:56
Originally posted by Westcoaster Westcoaster wrote:

Curve ball time, on the day we lost Vera Lynne, RIP, what about White Cliffs of Dover ?
As English as you can get ....
Well up to a point - it's certainly singable and could get the crowd going but - American lyricist, American composer, and referencing a bird that is never seen in Europe, let alone England!
Back to Top
Sid James View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Location: East Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1273
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 23:22
Am I right in thinking that the RFU are advocating more diversity but then seriously considering a ban on thousands of multi-race and differing ethnic background rugby supporters from singing a song that was written by a black man.
I am no lover of this song but considering a ban of it seems like even more evidence that the world is going crazy. Is this not just another large organisiation attempting to 'be seen' to care and 'be seen' to be more tolerant and understanding of people of all races. Basically, a gesture.

I am proud of the diversity and inclusion at my rugby club, from our U5's, through our mini junior section, to our senior men's and ladies teams, membership and supporters. I am proud of similar levels of diversity I see at rugby clubs all over this country every week. 
Whatever steps are taken to further improve diversity must be relevant and necessary. Anything can always be improved but let's be honest, whatever is done, it will never be enough for some people.
All Knwoing All Seeing
Back to Top
Westcoaster View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Location: Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 1251
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Westcoaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2020 at 23:34
"It was sung in clubs long before the 80s - with all the actions."
Agreed, I meant it only became adopted as the English crowd song then Disapprove

Come on Jersey........
Back to Top
Mark W-J View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2941
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 08:32
To me, it's the musical equivalent of the Mexican wave (can we have them any more?).  But if you try to ban it, Twickenham man will just sing it louder and more often.  I've got recorded versions by both Johnny Cash and Eric Clapton - don't forget that the roots of an awful lot of music can be traced back to the blues, which in turn is descended from what we once called 'negro spiritual'.  But one man's homage is another man's 'cultural appropriation'...
Back to Top
marigold View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 09 Apr 2019
Location: Eltham
Status: Offline
Points: 201
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 09:20
The irony to all this is the song began being sung in the late 80s as a celebration of one of the black star players playing rugby union at that time-Martin 'Chariots' Offiah. Surely rugby, the RFU, and the government have considerably more pressing issues to deal with........
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7068
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 09:28
Martin Offiah for Rosslyn Park against Harriman in the quarters in the Middlesex 7s when it was still a proper tounament.

Both had been scoring tries for fun in the opening rounds and  we had been looking forward all day to the inevitable meeting.

I seem to recall that the two speedsters mainly marked one and neither really got much ball.

But it was a long time ago and much beer had been consumed.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
backrowb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 07 Nov 2013
Location: Gods own county
Status: Offline
Points: 1447
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 09:32
I cringe when it is sung at England matches. The Scots have "Flower of Scotland", The Irish "The Fields of Athenry" and the Welsh....well they have a plethora of banging Welsh tunes.

The English, well we have an American Negro spiritualist  song, written by an indigenous, freed American slave, that it synonymous with onanist actions.   
Back to Top
PiffPaff View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
Points: 593
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 10:34
One of those "banging welsh tunes" is Delilah - a song basically about mental bullying by a woman on a man that in turn makes the recipient of the bullying take a knife and stab the woman to death so that she couldn't laugh about him no more. Most if not all music has a history or a story to tell. By deciding when emotions are high that something based on a celebration of freedom should be banned then I would suggest all "hymn" based music should be.

Lets start with one of the most populist hymns of the last 250 years, Amazing Grace - written by John Newton a English Slave Trader amongst other things. After finding God, Newton penned Amazing Grace thanking "the Lord" for saving him from a certain death on a sinking ship. Does the fact he repented his "sins" of slave trading outweigh the fact he actually dealt in trading other human beings? Using the current thinking, NO it does not because by our standards (today) it was wrong and he shouldn't have done it. Ergo we should not sing his song anymore.

Top 10 most popular hymns in the UK of all time has Amazing Grace in it.
Top 10 most popular hymns in the US of all time has Amazing Grace in it.
Top 25 hymns sung in Black Church Congratulations in the US has Amazing Grace in it.

PS. Ban the Haka, its a Traditional War Dance! No place for that in the 21st Century.

PPS. Just how would you stop say 1000 fans singing Swing Low at Twickers, or 10000 or all 80000?


Edited by PiffPaff - 19 Jun 2020 at 12:20
Crouch, Bind, Tweet!
Back to Top
Shamrose View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 674
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamrose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 11:21
 
So let's go with Jerusalem which is about England, but no doubt because it has Christian references, that would also fall foul of everything these days
 
I will certainly not stop singing Swing Low (which has been around when I started playing rugby in the mid 70's) and to be honest doesn't normally get past the first two lines as Twickenham anyway
 
Sorry got to go now and start contemplating my navel again!
 
 
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 7068
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 12:26
Blake is probably safer than 'Land of Hope and Glory', to militaristic and far too much about defeating the French.

But I still think that Flanders and Swann would be better - and I do not mean "Mud Mud ..."



Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Toulouse View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2014
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 98
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Toulouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 13:00
Swing Low ,sweet Chariot was written by Wallis Willis a Choctaw Freedman in Oklahoma. It is a Gospel song based on his vision of freedom and christianity. In 1939, Nazi Germany's Reich Music Examination Office added the song to a listing of "undesired and harmful" musical works and was banned. If anything this song should be promoted as a good thing and it has recently been made the official Oklahoma State Gospel Song. It has been recorded umpteen time by Gospel choirs.....do not ban it like Hitler did....educate,educate, educate and be proud that English rugby fans of all colours unite in singing this Gospel song......

Edited by Toulouse - 19 Jun 2020 at 13:04
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 395
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2020 at 14:52
Clearly the obvious choice is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.