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PLYMOUTH V STUDENTS

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SCC79 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 15:57
According to the Albion twitter feed 'the squad and ref were happy for the game to go ahead however Loughborough didn't deem the pitch safe'.

Not knowing the rules surrounding late cancellation I found the quote below on what appears to be a serious 'rules of rugby' site and can't help wondering if Luff might be in danger of having points deducted or at least  seeing the game awarded to Albion.
Do any maulers have a definitive answer?
 
'If it's National League or above the decision has to be made by a local referee on the request of the home side if the game is to be cancelled early.(i.e. to avoid unnecessary travel by visiting team and officials) If both teams are at the ground one or both of the Captains can deem the pitch unplayable and refuse to play, however if the referee considers the pitch playable, the team refusing to play can be reported to their governing body, NCA etc, for a disciplinary hearing and may be deducted points or have the game awarded to the opposition'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fake_Shemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 17:01
It'll be interesting to see what comes of that. I'm guessing this is the source of the quote, because it's an enlightening exchange between the two people on the forum:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SCC79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 17:32
Clicking on the link in your post Fake_Shemp you're right - that was the site. Did Luff take a weakened team I wonder? Were the 10 players selected for England Students all unavailable? If so might that have affected their decision not to play the game? As you say it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fat Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 17:41
Ampthill had this situation with a game in Launceston in National 2 South, Ampthill's Captain declared the pitch unsafe although both referee and Launceston's Captain disagreed, the game was re-scheduled, no action was or could be taken by the RFU, NCA or Launceston however much indignation was shown by any party. 

You cannot force players or a team to play, just think of the legal consequences of a serious injury to a player on the team forced to play against their will...






Edited by Fat Albert - 20 Jan 2018 at 17:42
a Freudian slip is when you say one thing but mean your mother
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SCC79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SCC79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 18:19
Good point 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fake_Shemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 20:37
It is a fair point and I wonder what, if anything, has changed between the events which led to that exchange four years ago and the current rules and any disciplinary action.

I don't think any player should be forced to do something they consider unreasonably dangerous, whether that's playing on a rockhard surface or something which is dangerous because of standing water. I remember an interesting point being raised by (of all people) Stuart Barnes some years ago when a game was called off in England because of a frozen pitch (there were a couple of frozen patches in one five meter channel) and he wondered whether the surface would be much harder than Loftus Versfeld or Ellis Park at the end of the Currie Cup when the teams would consider the hard, dry soil a 'normal' playing surface.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fake_Shemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2018 at 20:43
Originally posted by SCC79 SCC79 wrote:

Clicking on the link in your post Fake_Shemp you're right - that was the site. Did Luff take a weakened team I wonder? Were the 10 players selected for England Students all unavailable? If so might that have affected their decision not to play the game? As you say it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens 
According to Ex Coach in a different thread, Loughborough should have had a full-strength squad.

Originally posted by Ex Coach Ex Coach wrote:

The England students were all available for selection today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 13:40
What actually was the problem with the pitch that caused Loughborough's captain to deem it unsafe?
Interesting to see that that today's game between Leicester and Racing 92 went ahead despite the pitch being covered in snow.
It pays to be wise after the event!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 14:09
Originally posted by Longtime Longtime wrote:


What actually was the problem with the pitch that caused Loughborough's captain to deem it unsafe?
Interesting to see that that today's game between Leicester and Racing 92 went ahead despite the pitch being covered in snow.


Watching the Leicester game now, 'covered in snow' evokes a picture of is blanket of thick snow over the pitch - in reality nowhere on the pitch does the snow come anywhere near that.

Interestingly, the Munster game has been delayed until 16:00 because of standing water - so matches do get called off/delayed at the top level (Saracens v Clermont before Christmas)

Personally, I would have thought the referee should have the last say in cancellations not the captains (who may have hidden agendas)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 14:14
In many ways, or at least in one direction, the referees do.
There is nothing to stop them from, even if the captains are willing to go ahead, blowing for kickoff, and then, if they deem the conditions unfit immediately blowing to call it off.
What they cannot do is over-rule an unwilling captain and call it on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 14:21
The Saracens v Clermont game was called off because the traffic couldn't get through the snow so it was supporter safety that was the issue.  In reality the pitch was perfectly playable as it's an artificial surface - they just needed to sweep the snow off it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 14:22
Wilh 30 big guys running all over the Leicester pitch the snow does begin to melt, but 50 minutes into the game, there was still a fair amount of snow on the pitch.
As you said, the Munster game was delayed, not postponed.
I know times have moved on, but it was not so long ago that shortly into some games  the mud was so heavy it was often difficult to tell sides apart and more often than not the referee had to order players to change into fresh strrips.
After all rugby is a winter sport, played in winter conditions.
 


Edited by Longtime - 21 Jan 2018 at 14:25
It pays to be wise after the event!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OldNick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 14:43
Originally posted by Longtime Longtime wrote:

Wilh 30 big guys running all over the Leicester pitch the snow does begin to melt, but 50 minutes into the game, there was still a fair amount of snow on the pitch.
As you said, the Munster game was delayed, not postponed.
I know times have moved on, but it was not so long ago that shortly into some games  the mud was so heavy it was often difficult to tell sides apart and more often than not the referee had to order players to change into fresh strrips.
After all rugby is a winter sport, played in winter conditions.
 

Have a look at my pictures from Coventry yesterday.

All credit to Esher for competing to the end, and in fact scoring the final points of the game.

Picturees (of mud) here

Coventry (except one winger) changed shirts at half time.


Edited by OldNick - 21 Jan 2018 at 18:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 14:49
Regulations covering RFU adult competitions are here.
 
Postponed Matches is reg 13.6.6 on page 22.

Basically if the pitch is dodgy, tell everyone as soon as possible.

You cannot call the game off until it has been inspected by an RFU approved ref- usually on Friday -  and they agree.

Any decision taken within three hours of kickoff is down to referee and both captains, all of whom must agree the pitch is playable. 

Organising committee gets to review all late postponements.
So they can penalise the side refusing to play if it is spurious, or they can penalise the home side if they have failed to get an inspection and caused the away side to travel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 15:28
We had this situation last season.
Everyone thought our pitch was playable except the opposition captain.
The result - match cancelled. Both captains have to agree that the pitch is playable. If they disagree, the ref is obliged to agree with the captain who believes the pitch unplayable because he will be in bother if there is any serious incident due to the pitch.
The away club will also claim back their travel expenses from the home club due to late cancellation.
This is why we see some clubs calling games off early. The home club does not want to put the matter into the hands of the opposition and incur their travel costs.
Unfortunately the home club can have no doubt but be forced into cancellation by the opposition captain. This is open to abuse, in my opinion.

Edited by Sid James - 21 Jan 2018 at 15:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longtime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 15:39
It just seems curious that apart from Blaydon in the far north where there have been blizzards, the Plymouth Albion v Loughborough Students game was the only other game postponed in Nat 1, Nat 2 North, and Nat 2 South.
It pays to be wise after the event!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 16:09
Weather cancellations at Brickfields are rare. When Jersey's game there was postponed in Feb 2014, it was apparently only the 2nd league game there lost to the weather in 11 seasons (Boxing Day 2010 due to frozen pitch the other)...

It was bad in the SW yesterday, Pirates' home game also OFF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fake_Shemp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 19:12
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

We had this situation last season.
Everyone thought our pitch was playable except the opposition captain.
The result - match cancelled. Both captains have to agree that the pitch is playable. If they disagree, the ref is obliged to agree with the captain who believes the pitch unplayable because he will be in bother if there is any serious incident due to the pitch.
The away club will also claim back their travel expenses from the home club due to late cancellation.
This is why we see some clubs calling games off early. The home club does not want to put the matter into the hands of the opposition and incur their travel costs.
Unfortunately the home club can have no doubt but be forced into cancellation by the opposition captain. This is open to abuse, in my opinion.
Google informs me it is 244 miles from Loughborough to Plymouth by the M5. If I was from Plymouth, I would be very annoyed if I had to refund 488 miles of travelling expenses to a club which disagreed with a referee and our captain, but am open to seeing a legitimate reason why they considered the pitch unplayable/dangerous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 19:59
Games off not that rare that’s two in a row!!
The size of your package makes the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PurpleHaze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2018 at 20:21
Sorry to disappoint the conspiracy theorists around.

The Students had 6 of their 10 England Students in the 20 man squad, one other was wearing a leg brace last weekend, so where does that leave the conspiracy theory?

Personally I would have thought the last thing LS want with their perilous league position is a rearranged fixture.

Then again maybe the conspiracy theorists think a postponement was pushed to make sure LS can fill the squad with even more Tigers for the rearranged date? Now then there is a thought.

Why can’t we all just enjoy the rugby at NL1 level?

As posted in another thread, rugby never was and never will be a level playing field when it comes to resources (players or money). Enjoy!
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