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Revolt in the North

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Monkey Boy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Revolt in the North
    Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 22:09
And one of the major factors was clubs supposedly didn’t want 14 team leagues.

You couldn’t make this up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimesLikeThese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 22:03
Well judging by the ADM twitter feed, there's 4 clubs looking at moving over. Just going off MBs post that would be 3 of the 4, but then again I might as well be putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5.

Either way, if 4 moved over then you've had 8 teams move over just this summer. 
And that's the bottom line, 'cause Stone Cold said so!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 21:42
Not heard that New Brighton are leaving, definitely not happy about the 8 team league if you can call it that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimesLikeThese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 21:25
If those 3 make a move, that leaves LC with 5 teams max at L8.

This issue isn't going away any time soon.
And that's the bottom line, 'cause Stone Cold said so!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 18:08
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


MB, you do know the Lancs & Cheshire put together an alternative structure that had all the Clubs from L7 down in Lancs, Cheshire and the ADM Leagues in the RFU/ECC.
 
Competitions/North DOC rejected it as it would not allow for any Cumbria clubs (currently Aspatria) to be part of it,
 
Think ADM stated that part of their mission statement was to have 2 x 12 Team Leagues, maybe if another 12 Clubs moved from the ECC they could have 3 x 12 Team Leagues? But to answer your question I think its a no, there is no room, first up best dressed as they say, Dukinfield Collegiate,  Fleetwood & Marple all have new threads on.
 
Blackpool did apply apparently  but then decided to stay in the Intermediate Leagues and sadly Carnforth haven't been involved in any League rugby for nearly 3 years but are still around playing the odd Social game. Finger on the pulse there MB


So the mission statement was for 22 league games!
The reason for clubs originally jumping is they didn’t want 14 team leagues.

Well, well, well.

New Brighton, Hoylake and Congleton have been backed into a position where their league structure has been messed about.

The ADM is ready to take them. The clubs are suddenly now happy with 14 team leagues.

The ADM Lancashire & Cheshire Leagues of 14 teams are upon us.

This is why I used the word hypocrisy because everything is being torn up as they bumble along with a desire to pursue their own authority and mess up the ERC leagues. All about the individuals now and not what’s best for rugby.

Could it be called the North Lancashire to East and West Cheshire Leagues?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 11:56
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


Then I guess everyone gets two trips the Seaside! On a positive what if Marple get promoted?.......two trips still!
 
On no the ADM League sorry Merit League seems to be doing quite well.......can't think why any club would want to join it even clubs in Cheshire!
 



And as stated....it’s nothing like a merit league but your own were calling it that. Get then all on the same hymn sheet, don’t denigrate other views from ‘authority’ social media accounts (if you want to do that then do it from personal accounts) and then maybe you’ll be looked upon in a better light
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 11:54
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


Then I guess everyone gets two trips the Seaside! On a positive what if Marple get promoted?.......two trips still!
 
On no the ADM League sorry Merit League seems to be doing quite well.......can't think why any club would want to join it even clubs in Cheshire!
 



But the review said they wanted one trip.

Oh well

Lots of ways to look at the stats. Mine would be a lot less at stake, results not mattering as much so less yo yo action between ones and twos as less getting dropped.

But we can all interpret it differently and maybe these clubs have smaller playing pools hence why they joined the leagues, can take larger match day squads, less regulation and therefore less interchange.

As long as people are happy that’s great news
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 10:46
Then I guess everyone gets two trips the Seaside! On a positive what if Marple get promoted?.......two trips still!
 
On no the ADM League sorry Merit League seems to be doing quite well.......can't think why any club would want to join it even clubs in Cheshire!
 


Edited by PiffPaff - 13 Jun 2019 at 10:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 09:15
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:


MB, you do know the Lancs & Cheshire put together an alternative structure that had all the Clubs from L7 down in Lancs, Cheshire and the ADM Leagues in the RFU/ECC.
 
Competitions/North DOC rejected it as it would not allow for any Cumbria clubs (currently Aspatria) to be part of it,
 
Think ADM stated that part of their mission statement was to have 2 x 12 Team Leagues, maybe if another 12 Clubs moved from the ECC they could have 3 x 12 Team Leagues? But to answer your question I think its a no, there is no room, first up best dressed as they say, Dukinfield Collegiate,  Fleetwood & Marple all have new threads on.
 
Blackpool did apply apparently  but then decided to stay in the Intermediate Leagues and sadly Carnforth haven't been involved in any League rugby for nearly 3 years but are still around playing the odd Social game. Finger on the pulse there MB


So what if Fleetwood get relegated?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 07:58
MB, you do know the Lancs & Cheshire put together an alternative structure that had all the Clubs from L7 down in Lancs, Cheshire and the ADM Leagues in the RFU/ECC.
 
Competitions/North DOC rejected it as it would not allow for any Cumbria clubs (currently Aspatria) to be part of it,
 
Think ADM stated that part of their mission statement was to have 2 x 12 Team Leagues, maybe if another 12 Clubs moved from the ECC they could have 3 x 12 Team Leagues? But to answer your question I think its a no, there is no room, first up best dressed as they say, Dukinfield Collegiate,  Fleetwood & Marple all have new threads on.
 
Blackpool did apply apparently  but then decided to stay in the Intermediate Leagues and sadly Carnforth haven't been involved in any League rugby for nearly 3 years but are still around playing the odd Social game. Finger on the pulse there MB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 06:11
Calling Marple and Dukinfield Cheshire clubs is a slight stretch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 20:45
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

MB, really 64 Miles ONCE, at the risk of repeating myself what Clubs asked for during the RFU Review and subsequently mentioned in said review.


Frightening!

ONCE this season! You do have promotion and relegation don’t you?

What if Fleetwood get relegated. Marple are going twice.

Now you’ve allowed Cheshire clubs in what happens if Congleton or New Brighton want to come in? Then the Lancashire clubs from the top of the county are travelling more than once.

Or is it closed to any more Cheshire clubs now you’ve finally got 24 clubs?

I hope Blackpool and Carnforth don’t want to come on board as suddenly it’s Lancashire / Cheshire Leagues - please be honest.....is this the end game? Are the Cheshire Exec in cahoots and it’s the only way to make sure no one from Lancashire or Cheshire travels to Cumbria?

Like I’ve said it’s already straying way off from it’s original concept.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 16:43
MB, really 64 Miles ONCE, at the risk of repeating myself what Clubs asked for during the RFU Review and subsequently mentioned in said review.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 16:24
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

" Hypocrisy" that's a fairly emotive word to use when the clubs in question have taken the RFU classification of " Merit Table" in order to maintain their status within the RFU and subsequently decided to formalise the fixtures in order to establish an administrative framework. I don't know whether or not they have also drawn up a set of guidelines/rules/laws/obligations/penalties and the like but don't see why the initiative shouldn't work.

IMHO this approach bridges the gap between the old system of friendlies ( whether or not that was reflected in some form of merit table) and the RFU's preferred league structure which appears to be creating a few problems . To my mind the issue at the root of this local disagreement is the failure by the RFU to sort out the relationship between the amateur, semi-professional and professional game focussed as it is upon the revenue generated by sponsorship/tv and big game receipts.

What is truly hypocritical is the fact that the RFU having helped created division back in the late 1890s  is now favouring the professional over the amateur game which could destroy the very qualities which many of us admire about rugby.

Oh and before we get any whingeing ( particularly from Southern parts) about the "lesser code" it is worth noting that many sports discriminated against the so-called "working man" back in the day. No doubt many will remember Gentlemen v Players ( I ask you!) in cricket and the attitude of those running athletics both pre and post WW2 - Alf Tupper ( the tough of the track) was based on real situations which I will leave to Athletics equivalent of this forum.

Now can we get back to holding the RFU accountable to US the club members who have helped keep the game alive.


Mal read the thread. You’ll see why it’s hypocrisy. Local leagues, rugby that allows people to be home for tea. Now it’s changed to seeing the Blackpool Lights for some far flung Cheshire clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Griffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 16:18
Originally posted by Bigmal Bigmal wrote:

 Alf Tupper ( the tough of the track) was based on real situations which I will leave to Athletics equivalent of this forum.

Showing your age Bigmal. I can remember Alf with his Fish & Chips taking on the toffs.



Edited by Griffin - 12 Jun 2019 at 16:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 14:42
" Hypocrisy" that's a fairly emotive word to use when the clubs in question have taken the RFU classification of " Merit Table" in order to maintain their status within the RFU and subsequently decided to formalise the fixtures in order to establish an administrative framework. I don't know whether or not they have also drawn up a set of guidelines/rules/laws/obligations/penalties and the like but don't see why the initiative shouldn't work.

IMHO this approach bridges the gap between the old system of friendlies ( whether or not that was reflected in some form of merit table) and the RFU's preferred league structure which appears to be creating a few problems . To my mind the issue at the root of this local disagreement is the failure by the RFU to sort out the relationship between the amateur, semi-professional and professional game focussed as it is upon the revenue generated by sponsorship/tv and big game receipts.

What is truly hypocritical is the fact that the RFU having helped created division back in the late 1890s  is now favouring the professional over the amateur game which could destroy the very qualities which many of us admire about rugby.

Oh and before we get any whingeing ( particularly from Southern parts) about the "lesser code" it is worth noting that many sports discriminated against the so-called "working man" back in the day. No doubt many will remember Gentlemen v Players ( I ask you!) in cricket and the attitude of those running athletics both pre and post WW2 - Alf Tupper ( the tough of the track) was based on real situations which I will leave to Athletics equivalent of this forum.

Now can we get back to holding the RFU accountable to US the club members who have helped keep the game alive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 13:50
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

MB, the RFU class anything outside the ECC as merit table, Even the NOWIRUL setup is referred to this way.


Yes but it doesn’t operate as a merit table.

A merit table is decided by percentage wins/losses etc based on playing teams within your structure. It doesn’t state you must play each other home and away.


It's a formalised merit table.

Why are you so upset about the whole issue?


It’s a league table. Every one plays every one else home and away each season.
A merit table may see one team not play everyone else. Massive difference.

I’m not upset I just like pointing out the hypocrisy of it all.

There’s a video link on the website of Widnes RUFC which has the founder clubs and instigators all talking about local rugby, M62 corridor etc, and then you have clubs who are far from local playing each other in the structure which will eventually lead to a breakaway from this to something else. Have a watch. You might enjoy it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 13:36
Originally posted by Monkey Boy Monkey Boy wrote:

Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

MB, the RFU class anything outside the ECC as merit table, Even the NOWIRUL setup is referred to this way.


Yes but it doesn’t operate as a merit table.

A merit table is decided by percentage wins/losses etc based on playing teams within your structure. It doesn’t state you must play each other home and away.


It's a formalised merit table.

Why are you so upset about the whole issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 13:01
Originally posted by Camp Freddie Camp Freddie wrote:

MB, the RFU class anything outside the ECC as merit table, Even the NOWIRUL setup is referred to this way.


Yes but it doesn’t operate as a merit table.

A merit table is decided by percentage wins/losses etc based on playing teams within your structure. It doesn’t state you must play each other home and away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camp Freddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:58
MB, the RFU class anything outside the ECC as merit table, Even the NOWIRUL setup is referred to this way.
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