National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > Regional Premier Leagues
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Regional Premier Leagues 2019/20
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

Regional Premier Leagues 2019/20

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 553
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Regional Premier Leagues 2019/20
    Posted: 14 hours 30 minutes ago at 21:42
Any news yet?
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Online
Points: 6079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 16:11
The alternative to level transfer is to vary the numbers relegated in each league acording to the numbers coming  down from a higher league - and that used to be the case and led to problems which was why level transfer was introduced.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 553
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 15:49
Originally posted by Dobber Dobber wrote:

Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

....the only other option would be to put Guildford from LSE in SW...
Camborne to Bromsgrove... 242 miles 
Camborne to Guildford... 250 miles (280 miles if you use the M4 rather than A303 which can be a PITA). you've got to feel for the players and coach driver for Camborne 
If the RFU declared Cornwall and Devon as independent countries and excluded them from the competition it would be easier. ...or anything further than 5 degrees west. Having  them inconveniently located down by Land's End kind of screws the mileage up for SW....   Could be worse Cornish Pirates play at Penzance which is another 15 miles further west..... Smile  

That would be the only reasonable conclusion that they could come to if the Midlands RFU won't play according to the rules. It would be a small compromise but it would still screw over Kettering or Broadstreet. 

There just doesn't seem to be any solutions under the current league system that would satisfy everyone. I know Towcestrians loudly and vocally complained when they got forced into LSE but no-one seemed to care. Now it seems Midlands are actually trying to support their clubs to try and block them going into the (almost) death sentence of the competitive LSE.
Back to Top
Dobber View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 15:43
Originally posted by Robb Robb wrote:

....the only other option would be to put Guildford from LSE in SW...
Camborne to Bromsgrove... 242 miles 
Camborne to Guildford... 250 miles (280 miles if you use the M4 rather than A303 which can be a PITA). you've got to feel for the players and coach driver for Camborne 
If the RFU declared Cornwall and Devon as independent countries and excluded them from the competition it would be easier. ...or anything further than 5 degrees west. Having  them inconveniently located down by Land's End kind of screws the mileage up for SW....   Could be worse Cornish Pirates play at Penzance which is another 15 miles further west..... Smile  
Back to Top
Sarfender View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 31 May 2008
Location: sarfend
Status: Offline
Points: 726
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarfender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 15:07
So the signings by Rochford of ex Southend people continues. Hot on the heals of Sam Arnott and Ashton Beavans-Royston comes the news that Chris Waring has been named head coach following his departure from Westcliff after his distinguished playing career at Southend.
Just how many pages are there in their cheque book?
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 2136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 13:31
Originally posted by Thatbloke Thatbloke wrote:

Raider999 - I like the idea but if you are proposing three southern leagues where do the other 14 clubs come from? The area that is defined whatever that may be? That would mean 14 unwarranted promotions from Level 6 or will the southernmost Midlands Level 5 clubs be sucked into the equation - in other words "Level Transfers"!! and back to Square 1?


Obviously to maintain 14 team leagues, clubs from the level below would be promoted.

I'm sure a number of ambitious clubs would jump at the chance, especially with the reduction in travelling at Level 5 that my suggestions would provide.

There could be some mis-matches at first, but I believe eventually the divisions would balance out.
RAID ON
Back to Top
Thatbloke View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 02 Sep 2017
Location: Newport
Status: Online
Points: 493
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 10:52
Raider999 - I like the idea but if you are proposing three southern leagues where do the other 14 clubs come from? The area that is defined whatever that may be? That would mean 14 unwarranted promotions from Level 6 or will the southernmost Midlands Level 5 clubs be sucked into the equation - in other words "Level Transfers"!! and back to Square 1?
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 2136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 08:54
Originally posted by Friendly prop Friendly prop wrote:

Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

The problem may not be counties but the old Divisional boundaries.

With the width of South England being several times that of North England a possible solution might be to have 5 regions

South West and West
South Central and West London
South East and East London
Midlands
North

Boundaries, particularly in the South would need to be a bit fluid dependant on the clubs involved.

Pyramid structures beneath all 5 regions

Promotion to N2 - North and Midlands as currently
The 3 Southern regions winner only to be promoted


Without being critical or having a better idea but what happens if 2 teams of the same regions or god forbid 3 are in the relegation zone aren't you still going to have the same problem? Ouch


I quite agree, it is possible, that is why I deliberately didn't try to set rigid borders - it's time to get away from that way of thinking.

Clubs would belong to the south rather than any individual division.

This eliminates any problems with clubs not wanting to be transferred as the make-up of the leagues would be

The 14 most westerly clubs
The 14 most easterly clubs
The other 14

Potentially one year a club might be in the west the next the central, a second club might be in central then east the next.

All dependent on the locations of the 42 clubs at the level.

Of course, this will never happen as the Blazers won't permit it - they would lose influence and reason for existing.
RAID ON
Back to Top
Robb View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
Points: 553
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 07:45
Originally posted by Fudgepacker Fudgepacker wrote:

Originally posted by Athman Athman wrote:

And I think Dobber's analysis has shown why the Midlands/Bromsgrove appeal will fail as they would have only the fourth highest travelling distance in the South West division and cannot therefore claim that it is disproportionate or unusual!

Athman, that is certainly true but I am told that Bromsgrove's appeal against being level transferred to the SW is being backed fully by the Midlands League Organising Committee which is tasked with enforcing the transfer rules on behalf of the RFU. Surely, this is unprecedented and we are in a whole new ball game? I have never heard of this happening before.

If they succeed, then the only other option would be to put Guildford from LSE in SW, which would mean that Kettering would be forced into LSE along with willing Bedford. Which will probably lead to more appeals from Mr Sinckler and co and Kettering arguing why they should be sacrificed over Bromsgrove?
Back to Top
Insignificant Tick View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 863
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Insignificant Tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2019 at 07:44
Originally posted by Fudgepacker Fudgepacker wrote:

Originally posted by Athman Athman wrote:

And I think Dobber's analysis has shown why the Midlands/Bromsgrove appeal will fail as they would have only the fourth highest travelling distance in the South West division and cannot therefore claim that it is disproportionate or unusual!

Athman, that is certainly true but I am told that Bromsgrove's appeal against being level transferred to the SW is being backed fully by the Midlands League Organising Committee which is tasked with enforcing the transfer rules on behalf of the RFU. Surely, this is unprecedented and we are in a whole new ball game? I have never heard of this happening before.

Doesn't matter who its backed up by, if Bromsgrove have only the fourth highest travelling distance then there is no merit in any argument. The numbers 1,2,& 3 in that table would have more chance of a successful outcome.
Sounds like MLOC are using the situation to score some points v the RFU.   
Back to Top
Fudgepacker View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad
Avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Location: Birmingham
Status: Offline
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fudgepacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 23:56
Originally posted by Athman Athman wrote:

And I think Dobber's analysis has shown why the Midlands/Bromsgrove appeal will fail as they would have only the fourth highest travelling distance in the South West division and cannot therefore claim that it is disproportionate or unusual!

Athman, that is certainly true but I am told that Bromsgrove's appeal against being level transferred to the SW is being backed fully by the Midlands League Organising Committee which is tasked with enforcing the transfer rules on behalf of the RFU. Surely, this is unprecedented and we are in a whole new ball game? I have never heard of this happening before.
Back to Top
Athman View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 14 May 2013
Location: Bedford
Status: Offline
Points: 781
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Athman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 19:05
And I think Dobber's analysis has shown why the Midlands/Bromsgrove appeal will fail as they would have only the fourth highest travelling distance in the South West division and cannot therefore claim that it is disproportionate or unusual!

Edited by Athman - 21 May 2019 at 19:06
Back to Top
BruceElliott View Drop Down
First XV regular
First XV regular
Avatar

Joined: 05 Oct 2017
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Status: Offline
Points: 111
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BruceElliott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 18:36
Originally posted by Dobber Dobber wrote:

Maidenhead to Camborne is a 530 mile round trip. About 12 gallons of fuel. Not much change from £80. 


Camborne away fixtures to Maidenhead and Bracknell alone, just those two fixtures, add up to more mileage than 6 of the LSE Clubs do in an entire season.  I've got nothing else to add to that.  It's just jaw-dropping.  

Thanks Dobber for doing the legwork and posting the mileage tables.  

Edited by BruceElliott - 21 May 2019 at 19:19
Back to Top
Friendly prop View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 05 May 2011
Location: Scunny
Status: Offline
Points: 1479
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendly prop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 17:47
Originally posted by Raider999 Raider999 wrote:

The problem may not be counties but the old Divisional boundaries.

With the width of South England being several times that of North England a possible solution might be to have 5 regions

South West and West
South Central and West London
South East and East London
Midlands
North

Boundaries, particularly in the South would need to be a bit fluid dependant on the clubs involved.

Pyramid structures beneath all 5 regions

Promotion to N2 - North and Midlands as currently
The 3 Southern regions winner only to be promoted

Without being critical or having a better idea but what happens if 2 teams of the same regions or god forbid 3 are in the relegation zone aren't you still going to have the same problem? Ouch
"Animo concipere non possum quo palto hoc pervease exeat."
Back to Top
Raider999 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 18 Jan 2013
Location: Crawley
Status: Offline
Points: 2136
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 14:44
The problem may not be counties but the old Divisional boundaries.

With the width of South England being several times that of North England a possible solution might be to have 5 regions

South West and West
South Central and West London
South East and East London
Midlands
North

Boundaries, particularly in the South would need to be a bit fluid dependant on the clubs involved.

Pyramid structures beneath all 5 regions

Promotion to N2 - North and Midlands as currently
The 3 Southern regions winner only to be promoted
RAID ON
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Online
Points: 6079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 13:19
My figures were the size in square miles of the counties in the division.

Midland Division includes NLD (Notts, Lincs, Derby) which is huge but has few senior clubs - obviously Notts in the Championship and the club with a rude word in the middle recently promoted to Nat 2, Derby and Lichfield recently relegated to Midlands 1E.

Great Yarmouth would normally play are in L&SE - being an Eastern Counties club. 
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Dobber View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 12:18
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Actually if my sums are right, the South West is the second smallest division, only London is smaller. 
The North is slightly bigger and the Midlands is the largest.
However, the South West is probably the least square.
 
As I said elsewhere the choices made more sense in the age of rail.
I'm assuming the sizing calcs you've done Cam are based on the potential area for each Division rather than the actual geographical spread of the clubs in the mix each season. With no clubs any further east than Peterborough then currently Midlands is second 'smallest' in terms of travel distances for clubs and supporters, with no single journey any longer than 120 miles (subject to level transfers being announced). Most single journeys are in double figures. If a team like Great Yarmouth were promoted in the future then the ranking may change, but by the travel spreadsheets below then most trips for Midlands teams in 2019/20 are of a reasonable distance. (The figures in the spreadsheets show miles between teams for a single journey*)  (*- Blame Google)
.
.
As you say, maybe made more sense in the age of rail, but ticket prices have ruled that out as a travel option. For teams having to travel 250+ miles each way for a game then the fuel costs start to rack up for players and supporters - especially for the players who aren't paid and get no travel costs either.  Maidenhead to Camborne is a 530 mile round trip. About 12 gallons of fuel. Not much change from £80. Those sort of figures influence the number of away supporters you'll get. Club bar takings are affected as a result. It's a hell of a web to untangle in truth and that's why there can be understandable resistance to level transfers.
 
Originally posted by MaidsBoy MaidsBoy wrote:

.....a huge positive in my opinion is the team social aspect of the long bus trips back. Few players want to drive from Maidenhead to Devon or Cornwall, so consequently, we will have the whole squad together for 4, 5, 6 hours together on a coach, something I know we would dearly miss if we were in a different region.
Maids I'd question how enthusiastic the players would be if they experienced travelling 270 miles down to Camborne in January, being caught in a motorway delay, turning up around midnight to a Travel Lodge overnighter then have the game called off due to poor weather and to be asked to play a rearranged fixture and do it all again later in the season... and the same thing happens a few weeks later with another 200 mile each way trip down to Brixham, or Launceston or Ivybridge, or Okehampton.....Wink    
 
For ease I've copied the tables below again. LSE teams have a relative stroll to play their matches. The furthest Sidcup have to travel is 70 miles. SW teams have a 'journey'. (Maidenhead have only two trips during the entire season that are under 100 miles)  North div is where the mess needs untangling and the figures shown will change once three of those teams are spread into other Divs.




 
I don't envy RFU trying to make sense of it all and persuading teams to transfer and the other thread on 'Bees collapse' shows the resistance there is, but while the funding is being squeezed and there's so little money at this level and below then for all the player's ambitions of wanting to play at the highest level possible the reality is that the current model is broke (in both senses of the word) 


Edited by Dobber - 21 May 2019 at 19:39
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Online
Points: 6079
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 09:43
But where would you draw the borders instead.
There are always going to be edge cases.

Redruth is still going to be a long way fro anywhere, and there will always be the cluster of West Cumbrian clubs huddled on the coast surrounded by mountains.
Blood and Sand
Back to Top
carlos fandango View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2011
Location: Hertford
Status: Offline
Points: 684
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carlos fandango Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 09:37
Perhaps the problem needs to be solved by doing away with the county borders. For example, a team from east Berkshire is virtually in London, whereas west Berkshire neighbours Wiltshire. Two clubs in the same county would have vastly different ideal regional desires. 

Get rid of the county borders and it may make everyone's life a bit easier.
Back to Top
MaidsBoy View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 05 Sep 2014
Location: Twickenham
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaidsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2019 at 08:48
People bemoan the travel, and I accept it is tiresome, and we certainly struggle with availability some times, especially with our players in the teaching profession.

However, a huge positive in my opinion is the team social aspect of the long bus trips back. Few players want to drive from Maidenhead to Devon or Cornwall, so consequently, we will have the whole squad together for 4, 5, 6 hours together on a coach, something I know we would dearly miss if we were in a different region.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 10>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.