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Poll on the RFU &Yorkshire Carnegie - Event Date: 29 Jul 2019 - 30 Aug 2019

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Poll Question: Do you agree with the RFU allowing YC to play in the Championship
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
131 [87.92%]
2 [1.34%]
11 [7.38%]
1 [0.67%]
1 [0.67%]
3 [2.01%]
You can not vote in this poll

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omnes Paviores View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omnes Paviores Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Calendar Event: Poll on the RFU &Yorkshire Carnegie
    Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 08:55
In the Tincknell case to the best of my knowledge he has not signed a contract with Hull Ionians.

He has not been seen at Brantingham Park since returning from England Counties Tour. I would have only given odds on that he would turn out for Hull Ionians when this whole mess commenced.

Look at his playing history, apart from playing for London Welsh when they vanished, James has played for a number of top Yorkshire sides. He is a true Journeyman.

He will be missed but this one was inevitable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 08:24
Alternatively you could try to make some form of contract with the people who actually have some say in this matter, i.e the Professional Game Board at the RFU (The Championship is in their remit plus other things)

Can't quite see who is Chairman of PGB but Phil De Glanville (yes that Phil De Glanville) is listed as Senior PGB Representative on the RFU Board, the other person to vent at would be Nigel Melville.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 08:03
And pray do tell how do we, mere plebs, get a response from the RFU? Sadly, if our clubs don't speak out and demand a response from the RFU we will not hear one word from the boys in the ivory tower.

All I would suggest is, if any of you folk contributing to this thread have any influence within your clubs please go and ask them to press the RFU for a formal response on this debacle. The posts on here, whilst consistently damning of the RFU, and the way in which the Carnegie issue has been handled (and is being handled) is not having any effect. I would also suggest that the more eloquent posters out there might want to consider writing a letter to the Rugby Paper / Other Media expressing your outrage - if sufficient letters land on their steps they might feel compelled to do an investigative report which might, just might, get a response out of the RFU.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 06:39
From the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters forum by a poster called Competitive Dad in response to a suggestion on Twitter that James Tinknell from Hull Ionians has now been recruited by Yorkshire Carnegie


"Change the name now. Yorkshire no longer wants to be associated with this bunch of ruthless shysters. 
Hull Ionians must be wishing they were from the west of the Pennines. 
THIS STINKS - I'M OUT."

Another die hard Yorkshire Carnegie supporter who first registered on the YC forum in April 2012 and has contributed 790 posts to the Yorkshire Carnegie forum'

Competitive Dad is right it absolutely stinks to high heaven and rugby's governing body is complicit. This is how the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters feel about this scandal.........no wonder those of us who have no connection with Yorkshire Carnegie are outraged.

The RFU has got this so very wrong


Edited by Big Eddie - 14 Aug 2019 at 06:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tommy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 17:00
Ten years on October 2009................ Rugby Football Union chairman Martyn Thomas has warned that the professional game in England is in financial jeopardy as it relies too heavily on benefactors to keep clubs afloat as Birmingham & Solihull rugby club were forced into voluntary liquidation. Although a new company was formed, the RFU docked the club 15 points and demanded evidence that all other financial and legal issues were dealt with to their satisfaction by the end of the month.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 15:02
I believe that Richmond and Scottish formed new teams to start at the bottom once the professional arms of their respective clubs had been forcibly merged with London Irish.  They each played a season of merit table rugby before being accepted in the Herts & Middlesex leagues, whereas London Welsh Amateurs already existed and effectively became our first team overnight.

It all gets blurred when you try to separate teams, clubs and companies/ businesses.  So far as I'm concerned the professional 1st XV, Amateurs, Occies, Women etc were all different teams representing the same club.  But, as Halliford alludes to, the 1st XV were a separate company - although it was the rest of the club which formed a breakaway company (the CASC).  This differs from Wasps, for example, whose professional arm formed a new entity and a new club (Wasps RFC) by breaking away from the traditional Wasps FC in the mid-late 90s, and are, in fact, a completely separate club from the one that plays at Twyford Avenue.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 14:51
Halliford I think you will find that Richmond and L Scots were sent to the bottom of the league structure unlike YC or Albion. It had nothing to do with the status of their players. A long time ago now but I remember Richmond ridiculously then went on a more than 60 league game winning streak -effectively ruining the leagues at the lower levels for at least 5 years. I do agree YC is not a club-and yet the RFU is happy to give it £500,000 when proper clubs all over the other divisions are actually doing something positive for rugby. I think we would all love to know the reasoning behind this decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Joy of (Level) 7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 14:14
I don’t think that they can but strangely enough Halliford, I think Plymouth Albion fall into that category too. I’m sure there are many others and it seems a bizarre way to operate on a number of levels.

However, some one-team clubs/teams arrange a few fixtures every now and again for their “Development XV”. This translates as a few squad players plus the decent talent from other nearby clubs that might be poached!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Halliford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 13:43
At the risk of annoying a few people, surely the route that Plymouth Albion took a few years back is a better comparison than Richmond. I have a lot of good friends at Albion but they did a similar exercise, insolvency post-season to avoid point deduction and relegation. They then found their own money, which is where they differ from YC. Richmond and London Scottish didn’t have insolvencies, technically their Premiership places merged with London Irish. They then started off lower down because they had amateur teams that could join the League structure. London Welsh had two separate companies, the Premiership company became insolvent but the amateur team was already playing lower down so they could start there.

The real difference between YC and the 3 London Teams is the absence of a Club other than the 1st XV. How can a Club be just one team? Discuss!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 12:38
WPL as I think you are possibly the only identified Yorkshire Carnegie supporter on this thread could I ask what you make of this thread and the Leeds thread.

In your view is the criticism levelled at Yorkshire Carnegie and the RFU on Rolling Maul warranted or is it over the top?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 12:02
Originally posted by WPL WPL wrote:

Thanks Eddie - I’m the same WPL as on here.

No problem WPL I don't think anyone who has contributed to this thread has any issues with the majority of rugby supporters at Yorkshire Carnegie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fenboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 10:47
WPL - we used to have the Supporters Bar in the South Stand car park where folks used to meet pre and post match for a drink and a chat. This was demolished - we were told on the Fans Forum that there would be a 'Fans Village' in the car park but this never materialsed. The Carnegie Bar was given over to us pre and post match, but one never knew what beer would be on, the food was too much (why not Yorkshire Pie and Peas?), and Rhinos memorabilia began reappearing on the walls. This was brought to the attention of the management via the fans forum but nothing was done about it. 

We had travelling groups, but it was not practical putting on buses as the support came from all over Yorkshire.

Leeds Tykes started of as "The Worlds first Dual Code" partnership with the Rhinos. As time went on it became very clear how junior a partner they were.

At the bottom line, if you just want to go and watch a game of rugby then the product at Headingley is fine. If you want something more then it is not the place to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WPL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 10:33
Thanks Eddie - I’m the same WPL as on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 08:44
A lot of the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters seem to have the same values that most of us on Rolling Maul espouse and hope we live by. Whether Yorkshire Carnegie and the RFU can ever now live up to these values is the question.

In a thread on the Yorkshire Carnegie forum a question has been posed "What would make you proud to say you are a YC supporter?" there have been a number of conflicting replies but perhaps the most heartfelt was from a poster named WPL who wrote: 

"What would make me proud.....a hard working team that is over achieving what they should. 

Off the pitch I would love to see the club become more of a community, people seeing it as an opportunity to meet friends, a central space for people to meet for a pre match drink, maybe more traditional rugby club food...somewhere not like a full meal in a cafe or a burger vans. 

Good communication between the club and fans where possible, appreciating recent things have been very confidential for legal reasons. 

Opus I like the idea of a travelling group as well...I couldn’t say I could do everyone due to small children but would like to be part of it! 

Does the name matter...to me personally not, however I can see why it does to others and to be honest being able to leave as much behind as we can with Yorkshire Carnegie might not be a bad thing....fresh start / return to better times"
perhaps there is some hope after all




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 07:14
Originally posted by 373 373 wrote:

 

Trying to use this as a piece of scientific research is now stretching even your own paper thin credibility. Trying to claim there’s any neutrality on a forum where people claim the RFU has poisoned their morning coffee isn’t going to yield balanced results.

Frankly it’s time people started accepting what’s happened. The constant bellyaching is undignified.

I am not looking to use this as a piece of scientific research 373 but the numbers who voted did appear to make this statistically valid which was interesting but I do accept that there is an overwhelming prejudice against the RFU on Rolling Maul which probably does make the poll biased on the basis that most people who look at Rolling Maul are proper rugby supporters and are therefore more than likely to be appalled at the action the RFU has taken.

As for my credibility you are absolutely correct I have none and will never have any, I am just a rugby supporter and Rolling Maul poster like you 373


Edited by Big Eddie - 13 Aug 2019 at 07:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Eddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 07:06
Originally posted by Rinkadink Rinkadink wrote:

Big Eddie, you have been prominently campaigning for people to voice their displeasure in the poll which renders it largely null and void for statistical purposes instead of legitimate and unbias.

Not only that I could if I so choose, vote again in the poll as the software must be broken when signing in via multiple browsers/devices. I would not be surprised if other people have done this, maybe even unwittingly.

If you want the RFU to pay attention you would be better off starting a petition online via change.org or similar.

The poll was initially to judge the strength of feeling. When I have carried out such polls before they generally only garner 20 or 30 votes because of apathy and there is almost always a difference of view. I decided to allow posts to accompany the poll so as to better understand points of view and to encourage those who wished to express support for Yorkshire Carnegie to have a platform to participate.

I will accept your point that my commentary probably does introduce bias in the poll and perhaps the strength of feeling is maybe slightly less than 127 v 2 (taking the two opposing view points in the poll) however as far as RM polls go this is as emphatic as it is ever going to get and with only Richard Lowther putting forward any possible mitigation the posters have also been unanimous in their condemnation.

If you add the strength of feeling against YC shown on the Yorkshire Carnegie supporters forum from formerly die hard YC supporters then I think it is reasonable to assume the condemnation for the RFU's decision and Yorkshire Carnegie is overwhelming.




Edited by Big Eddie - 13 Aug 2019 at 07:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 373 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 06:56
Originally posted by Big Eddie Big Eddie wrote:

Trailfinder,

thank you for your participation I was concerned to ensure that all view points could be represented and I think the poll questions are fair. There is almost complete unanimity of view on this which I suspect is due to a number of factors:

- the low regard that many rugby supporters have for the RFU's governance of the club game
- the recent savage cuts in the RFU's financial assistance below level 2
- the manifest unfairness of the decision compared to previous actions by the RFU in similar scenarios
- Yorkshire Carnegie leaving players high and dry to the tune of £500k+
- Yorkshire Carnegie's current raiding of level 3 and level 4 clubs to cobble together a team
- the lack of any compelling reason of why the RFU's action is in any way justifiable

However thanks again for participating



Trying to use this as a piece of scientific research is now stretching even your own paper thin credibility. Trying to claim there’s any neutrality on a forum where people claim the RFU has poisoned their morning coffee isn’t going to yield balanced results.

Frankly it’s time people started accepting what’s happened. The constant bellyaching is undignified.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 00:44
I hope whoever wins the league (and if we don’t I hope Richmond do) tells the powers that be where to stick their promotion. National 1 and below is proper Rugby. Prem only bothered about themselves. RFU only care about England. Protectionism rules.

Club games mean much more to me than rip off internationals. I would not contribute one penny of my hard earned wages to the coffers of that bunch of Henries. I mean they actually think Leeds is Yorkshire but as we all know it’s just a small town outside Sheffield.





Edited by Rothman2 - 13 Aug 2019 at 00:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rinkadink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 00:18
Big Eddie, you have been prominently campaigning for people to voice their displeasure in the poll which renders it largely null and void for statistical purposes instead of legitimate and unbias.

Not only that I could if I so choose, vote again in the poll as the software must be broken when signing in via multiple browsers/devices. I would not be surprised if other people have done this, maybe even unwittingly.

If you want the RFU to pay attention you would be better off starting a petition online via change.org or similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Onion Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Aug 2019 at 23:18
It won’t allow me to vote, perhaps because I only just signed up. The RFUs decision is a disgrace would have been where my vote went.
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