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Hopping Mad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hopping Mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 09:13
Having a successful 2nd XV can be a poisoned chalice these days. Hoppers, Caldy, Sedge have all had successful 2nd XV's over the last few years but then clubs lower down the pyramid with shopping lists come looking.
That is fine if it is all above board in terms of how those players are then going to be paid.
 
From what I'm hearing, the budget cap is going to be largely ignored with teams either exceeding it (but not declaring it) or simply not even bothering to put it through the books.
 
As was pointed out to me RFU have got the budget cap proposals wrong. They want to stop "community" clubs at lower levels throwing money at players but they aren't putting strong enough controls in place. Now if promotion to higher levels came with criteria that included off the field requirements to be in place then it would stop all the money being just thrown at recruitment.
 
For instance, having a certain quality of facility, how you propose to grow the game (be it kids, women, disability etc) and having a plan as to how you will run your club at the higher level were all ideas that should be in place for clubs wanting to move from Level 6 to Level 5 (i.e. the deemed levels where payment can then be allowed) were put to me that made sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 09:20
Originally posted by RatBoy RatBoy wrote:

Great to see what’s happening at Chester in terms of rotating 1xv and 2xv players to breed a stronger, more sustainable, larger squad for the long term future - great move and very ethical

Must have worked as Chester 2xv were on fire and 1xv finished in the top half

Regarding caldy and Annie’s, lets be clear - Annies have signed 2xv players in Danny Salisbury, Paul Selwood and Liam Issacs (plus whoever else), with Matt Fowler’s going after a year spent at Wirral of which i dont think he played a great deal

What’s not keep those players at caldy, of which one came up through the youth and one is a great club man (Salisbury) is that they felt they had nothing to play?!

I worry that caldy will be the next Waterloo, bringing in all these big time Timmy’s on £££, them not playing 2xv, the club fociusiong solely on 1xv (its 3xv has folded)

Only takes them to have a bad season, big time Timmy’s to leave, there squad to be diminished, a tough national 2 with a small squad, another relegation

Who’s going to go join a club in a downward spiral?

Pretty much what’s played out on these 71 pages

Good luck to the lads who have gone Annie’s, hopefully they find their love for the sport and Annie’s prosper

And good luck Waterloo in, what should have been an exciting year for growth after almost reaching the play offs


Can't argue with any of that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 11:19
Why have those players left to go to Anselmians and Birkenhead Park ? ££££££

Would they have left otherwise ? 

Caldy have lost Danny S who was a good player for the 2xv but the jump of Caldy 2xv to National 1 was never going to happy for him along with many of the other 2XV team players. Danny managed a few games for the 1XV when they played N2N but the jump to N1 is too big for him. He will me a miss for the 2XV

Liam I is a good player and again is he good enough to play National 1 ? Was he better than Chris P and Ben J? Again he has left as he is getting £££ at his new club. He will also be a miss for the 2XV

Louis was going to Waterloo but they messed him about and  did not come up with the goods £££££ and he fellow friends at their new club found out and passed his number and he got the call.

Carl S has joined Birkenhead Park and again he is getting ££££ so would he have left if he was not getting paid ? I am not sure. The clear factor is that £££ has made the players above make the decision to leave.

Paul Selwood and Dec did not play one game last season for Caldy or any other club so they are not really a miss for Caldy. But again would they have come back to rugby if they was not getting ££££

Luke Harris has been at nearly every session for Caldy during pre season so i cant see him going to a club with no coach. 

The issue Caldy have is the jump from N1 to 2XV rugby is huge. Caldy's mission within their first year in N1 was to be in the league the following year.  They had to pick the team each week to keep them in the league and they managed this just about. 

When the club was in N2 the transition from 2XV to 1XV was pretty high but this was not the case last season due to 95% of the players not being physically, mentally and good enough to play in the N1. Can the players who have left can say honestly they was better than the players who are currently in their position ? I do not think they can. 

These clubs have got to be careful as if they start asking for RFU funding support whether it is for AGP / Pitches / Club house / changing rooms they will not get this if the players are getting paid whether its from the club or 3rd party people / companies!!!!!!

The league structure for the 2XV also does not help the players. Who wants to play the same team 4 times a season. There is not much change this season for the 2XV and i believe the club are looking at pulling out the NOWIRUL leagues for 2XV rugby. The first break for the 2XV players is 22nd December. Feedback across the game for players especially at 2XV / 3XV / 4XV players is they do not want to be playing every week. The organisors of the league need to change the way they are doing this. Clubs are starting to work together as this was seen in the recent AGM for the NOWIRUL leagues which seen the biggest turn out of clubs for a while changing a number of rules. 


Edited by Monkey Boy - 06 Jul 2018 at 11:21
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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jul 2018 at 12:48
Players do not want to play every week.
The jump fro 2nd XV to N1 is huge

Oddly down in the South the 2nd XV do want to play every week [1], have the Shield to ensure they get meaningful opposition - including Championship, N1 and ambitious N2 clubs 2nd XVs, plus Richmond 3rds.

Therefore they are ready to step up, though perhaps not the week they are due to have the trip to Jersey. Somehow very few players were asking to be considered for the 1sts that week.

[1] I am not a player, but I do speak to them and on the weeks the 2nds do not have a game they turn up and watch the firsts, moaning about being bored.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pen 15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 14:36
looks like leaderless Wirral lose another player to Annie's
was told ,at the end of 16/17 we will not see you next season but we will the one after .think not otley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeppushininthescrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jul 2018 at 20:44
How many is that? How do you feel as a player having got promoted to see half a new team turn up getting paid for their time?
The wirral lad is a good player I believe but how will that effect them when players start drifting off a couple of miles down the road for a few quid,wirral have got a hard season ahead if someone is going to scoop up the best local players and pay them.
If anselmians are challenging near the top and wirral struggling in the bottom half I'd suspect more may leave by Christmas.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Full Back Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 08:00
Its a shame if Anselmians have finally got some money from a land deal to waste it on a pipe dream because you can rest assured that when the money runs out
, so will the players. I am amazed the club members have allowed this, because it will end in tears.They will have to be careful of wage cap as I am sure it will be looked at.Or it may be that club members are bank rolling this ambitious club policy we will never know.We will all just wait for the next big signing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 10:31
Originally posted by Full Back Full Back wrote:

Its a shame if Anselmians have finally got some money from a land deal to waste it on a pipe dream because you can rest assured that when the money runs out
, so will the players. I am amazed the club members have allowed this, because it will end in tears.They will have to be careful of wage cap as I am sure it will be looked at.Or it may be that club members are bank rolling this ambitious club policy we will never know.We will all just wait for the next big signing.
Haven't the club been down this road before with a previous investor / bank roller ? 

He had a fall out with the club / members, then spat his dummy and left the club along with players ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 11:45
There’s some decent players at Wirral. I wonder if the 15 and 7 will have a go at caldy in National 1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pen 15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 21:03
think the writing was on the wall for wirral when the coach left and nobody wanted the job
was told ,at the end of 16/17 we will not see you next season but we will the one after .think not otley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeppushininthescrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 22:38

It's going to be hard for wirral this season with anselmians and park looking to go up.

Edited by Keeppushininthescrum - 13 Jul 2018 at 23:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pen 15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 07:32
park have lost players to Caldy as well I think, but have signed some caldy 2s .wirral lost players to Caldy and Annies seems to be a merry go round of players ,waterloo are obviously playing on the swings.
was told ,at the end of 16/17 we will not see you next season but we will the one after .think not otley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Keeppushininthescrum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 09:07
Park losing players to Caldy? I thought the jump in standard from caldy 2s to nat 1 was hard enough but north 1 to nat 1 seems a bit much!

Edited by Keeppushininthescrum - 14 Jul 2018 at 09:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pen 15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2018 at 11:26
depends on the players Caldy have recruited from sandbach in the past and done very well with those lads

was told ,at the end of 16/17 we will not see you next season but we will the one after .think not otley
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 07:29
Sad to hear Wirral are enduring an exodus of their top players. Is it just because of the D.O.R. departure or other issues?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foo Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 10:06
I'm lead to believe the land deal is an enabling development which basically sees a departure from Green Belt land.
Effectively the transaction is done on an "Open Book" basis where the money received for the land is deposited into a secure escrow account and all funds are spent on the re grading of pitches and the building of the new clubhouse and run by the local authority (the club cannot benefit financially from the deal) .
What they do have are a group of member volunteers who work tirelessly to bring in sponsorship and even give their time to work on the club and grounds weekly - up keeping the pitches etc . The previous Investor bank roller did things differently and guess where he's at now - Caldy !! Rumour is the players from Caldy genuinely felt they had no route to 1st team rugby and that the 2nd team league wasnt competitive enough . Wirral are a strong club and will be fine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monkey Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 11:21
It’s good that lads who obviously aren’t good enough have dropped down the leagues and continue to play as opposed to packing in.

The game needs a realism attached to it.

Foo Fighter will this sponsorship at your club mean that you break the salary cap though?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 11:23
That will not stop everyone saying you have built your side on the money from the land sale. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foo Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 11:40
Unfortunately we can't stop uninformed tittle tattle . 
Its a planning condition that none of the land sale funds finds it's way into the club and a policy that will be closely monitored by the local authority on an open book basis . The sponsorship money raised is no different than any other club up and down the land it's used for rugby throughout the club - Kits , players clothing before and after games, coaching , transport, mini and junior requirements  not players wages, next season will be difficult as we have no home and bar revenue as fixtures will be played at a local club with no call on revenue . 
Unfortunately I think the uninformed see us as an undesirable club thankfully not the players who have decided they want to be part of the journey , to the contrary we are ambitious and fortuitous that we had forefathers who had the vision to buy the land on which we operate and not lease it like so many others . 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 12:51
Not a very original name FF... this could get complicated
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