National League Rugby Discussion Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > League Rugby - www.leaguerugby.co.uk > The Championship
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - What do Championship Clubs want
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

IMPORTANT Remember to read the rules of the board and abide by them when posting.

What do Championship Clubs want

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2001
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What do Championship Clubs want
    Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 11:36
Reading TRP this morning the 14 team expansion is being shelved, the B&I scrapped. The reasons given for the expansion not happening the clubs are to greedy to share the money they get. The B & I cost to much. With the clubs currently getting in the region of 500k.it would mean losing 70k but gaining 2 more home games then the cup comp for champ teams only. As someone from Nat 1 which receives a miserly travel allowance this really makes me angry of the greed and arrogance of the champ teams they want somebody else to maintain their status and pay the wage bill. To someone from the outside this really seems like the self preservation society.
So many Christians not enough Lions
Back to Top
The Blues View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 2821
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Blues Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 13:05
I know it happens too often, but no season should start with a competition structure that is changed mid-season.  Last year we had no relegation due to Welsh disappearing and if we expanded to 14 it would be the same again.

Part of the problem lies that the majority of Championship clubs do not have large enough gates, so to forgo the funding for 2 extra homes games doesn't make financial sense.  This means any vote to reduce funding is bound to fail, as many struggle financially anyway.  Ironically expanding to 14 would probably help lower end clubs survive relegation as there would be a couple more weaker teams in the league.

The other problem is the RFU, for starters they do very little to assist in promoting the league (the live streaming has been a welcome addition however). I'm pretty sure the clubs get extra funding for the travel to play the BIC, so we're talking about less than £1million from the RFU to help 2 additional clubs that they want to play under or at least move more towards a full-time structure. 

Many of the England squads have played for or have come from Championship clubs who have aided in their development and there is no/little recognition for this.  If the Championship had reduced funding and was not as good as it is, these younger English players would not develop like they do.

Championship clubs should replace the Welsh ones in the Anglo-Welsh Cup.  A cup competition playing themselves only won't have much appeal from the fans. 

Another option would be to include ND1 clubs again to allow Championship academy and development squad players some more game time with their parent clubs.  However, this is more appealing to ND1 (would have to find 3 more subs) and their fans than Championship ones.  


Edited by The Blues - 12 Nov 2017 at 13:09
Back to Top
Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2001
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 13:44
Not sure that putting Nat 1 with Champ teams would work as IMO it would be weakened teams as again no one wants to get injuries. There is also a huge amount of development of players in Nat 1 also look at the threads about Loughborough. There are DRs at many clubs who after a season or 2 in Nat 1 will probably move to Championship for further education while the AP continue to cancel A league games.
So perhaps it is time to cut your cloth accordingly if you cannot manage without major funding as all clubs below have to. Coventry are proving that you can do it if you need to (if rumours are to be believed).
So many Christians not enough Lions
Back to Top
Stalwart View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
Location: Penzance
Status: Offline
Points: 1446
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stalwart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 14:01
It boils down to how important the role of Championship clubs is perceived. The fact that so many current internationals have played in the Championship illustrates that it does have a significant positive influence on the development of professional players. If that is accepted, then the RFU should provide more funding and try harder to promote the competition - which is a very good product. Pretty much every game I've seen this season has been very high quality and very entertaining. Bringing Championship clubs into the Anglo Welsh Cup would be a cheap, easy way to raise the profile of the second tier (especially if some games were televised) and generate some interest - as well as bringing some big name clubs to Championship grounds and thus helping with the finances.
Back to Top
Rothman2 View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner

Rotherham

Joined: 20 Jan 2010
Location: Derby
Status: Offline
Points: 8886
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rothman2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 16:09
The thing that Championship Clubs want is a regular fixture list which guarantees the home team a game every other week. Is that too much to ask?

If the clubs have vetoed this then they deserve everything they get.

The Championship is dead in the water with only the teams with significant backing able to cover the shortfall.

The model is broken. It is not working and a return to grass roots is on the cards.
It is not commonly known that a Yorkshireman invented the original cure for sea sickness.....they leant over the side of the boat with a five pound note in their mouth.
Back to Top
gerg_861 View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad
Avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Location: Ealing
Status: Offline
Points: 31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerg_861 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 16:26
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

It boils down to how important the role of Championship clubs is perceived. The fact that so many current internationals have played in the Championship illustrates that it does have a significant positive influence on the development of professional players. If that is accepted, then the RFU should provide more funding and try harder to promote the competition - which is a very good product. Pretty much every game I've seen this season has been very high quality and very entertaining. Bringing Championship clubs into the Anglo Welsh Cup would be a cheap, easy way to raise the profile of the second tier (especially if some games were televised) and generate some interest - as well as bringing some big name clubs to Championship grounds and thus helping with the finances.

Absolutely agree - Expand the Anglo-Welsh cup to include Championship teams, and Principality teams. Perhaps a single elimination preliminary round or two, then let the lower tier sides go at it with the Pro-12 and Premiership teams. Would be massively more exciting. Heck - even get rid of the pool stage for the Anglo-Welsh. Just knockout. Would generate some actual interest, and if people want the gates, then win some games!

As it happens, I was at Ealing yesterday, sitting behind people in the know, and I caught one massively interesting snippet as I came back from getting a pint - "So the top four will have a chance to go up to the Premiership." I have no idea what that means, or the context, but I've been speculating on it all night.
Back to Top
Rabbie Burns View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2001
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 17:16
Don't panic gerg he was talking about wendyball where they even accept promotion and relegation as part of life success & failure and they are talking about a few £££££s more than we could dream about they currently have 3 up 3 down fixtures every week except when the best go of on international duty they don't ask you to play in case someone gets an advantage.
So many Christians not enough Lions
Back to Top
WEvans View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WEvans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 19:31
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

... The fact that so many current internationals have played in the Championship illustrates that it does have a significant positive influence on the development of professional players. If that is accepted, then the RFU should provide more funding and try harder to promote the competition ....

True but then again almost all current internationals have played for junior clubs and the RFU couldn't give a stuff about them!
Back to Top
Trailfinder View Drop Down
First XV squad
First XV squad


Joined: 05 Feb 2017
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trailfinder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2017 at 20:00
Originally posted by Stalwart Stalwart wrote:

It boils down to how important the role of Championship clubs is perceived. The fact that so many current internationals have played in the Championship illustrates that it does have a significant positive influence on the development of professional players. If that is accepted, then the RFU should provide more funding and try harder to promote the competition - which is a very good product. Pretty much every game I've seen this season has been very high quality and very entertaining. Bringing Championship clubs into the Anglo Welsh Cup would be a cheap, easy way to raise the profile of the second tier (especially if some games were televised) and generate some interest - as well as bringing some big name clubs to Championship grounds and thus helping with the finances.


I would absolutely love this to happen, with maybe a North / South group stage split. Pirates vs Exeter, Blues vs Northampton, Nottingham vs Leicester would be sure to generate local interest.
Back to Top
Mark W-J View Drop Down
Coaching staff
Coaching staff
Avatar

Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Online
Points: 2528
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 08:09
I was watching the Anglo-Welsh 'highlights' last night.  The Scarlets lost 40-0 at home to Exeter, but given the relative strength of the two teams I'd have expected a scoreline closer to 140-0.  If the Scarlets team appeared under the banner of Scarlets Premiership Select XV in the B&I I think they'd have been mullered by at least three of the Irish provinces and half a dozen Championship sides.  Sadly, if it's a Mickey Mouse competition - Anglo-Welsh, B&I, Powergen Shield - then only a handful of teams will take it seriously.
Back to Top
Pirate Pig View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Location: Cornwall
Status: Offline
Points: 640
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pirate Pig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2017 at 19:21
Unfortunately as the majority of Championship clubs are totally reliant on the money they receive from the RFU & PRL it does not leave them in a strong position to broker a better deal. Any major decisions taken will be for the benefit of PRL with the championship clubs left to accept any change or risk losing a considerable part of their income. It is unlikely that this situation is going to change in the short term so we will continue to be dictated to by the PRL cartel.
Back to Top
JonDee View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 25 May 2007
Location: Nottingam
Status: Offline
Points: 845
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 08:28
Silly Question

It doesn't matter what Championship Clubs want as they have little or no control over their destiny.  They are controlled by income and as that comes from the RFU they do what they are told
Back to Top
corporalcarrot View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Location: St Ouen
Status: Online
Points: 2309
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corporalcarrot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 09:03
Things are unlikely to change until the commercial structure of the game changes. Supporters seem to want someone else to pay to fund the team they support and generally seem to want clubs to be a source of cheap beer and free or low cost entertainment. It doesn't seem likely to happen any time soon so clubs should either recruit players within a budget they can support from within their own community even if it means they may drop down a level or two or follow the Ealing and Briz model and hand over control to someone with deep pockets. 
Dont kick it. Pick it up and GO FORWARD.
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 4650
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 12:00
The Championship clubs have little room for manoeuvre - but do have options.
They are more likely to get what they want if FDR gets together and presents a united front to RFU.

At the moment the Premership agreement runs for three more years -so that is not going to change.
One thing I would ask for is for an extension of the Champinship agreement so both could be looked at together.
Failing that for the new Championship agreement to run until the end of the next Premiership agreement and for both to be considered together then.

So the options are-
1: Expand the league and drop the B&I - accepting less money per team.

2:Stay at 12 and find a replacement for the B&I

3: Drop to 10 teams and play three times - with slightly more money per team.

4: Drop to ten teams and add a bigger cup,

My bet would be a vote for 3 - 27 matches, 13 home games and a magic weekend and 20% more RFU / sponsors money.

It would be harsh on London Scottish and Jersey and would give everyone up to Cambridge  conniptions over extra relegation place from National 1 - I assume you would have 4 down 2 up from National 1 to keep it at 16. With 3 down 2 up in National 2 and no play off games and the commensurate adjustment below that.

Yes it still does not address the problem with the Premiership being a closed shop and being permitted to sign too many players and have to loan them out - but as JonDee says, FDR does not have the power or the allies to fix that.


Blood and Sand
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 1060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 12:25
One problem with three matches is the imbalance in favour of the team which has two home games.
pappashanga
Back to Top
thomas snr View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner


Joined: 22 May 2007
Location: middleton-on-se
Status: Offline
Points: 1206
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thomas snr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 13:15
it was tried in wales and spectators got bored with playing the same sides 3 times a season.
Back to Top
oneagainstthehead View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion
Avatar

Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Location: West London
Status: Offline
Points: 291
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oneagainstthehead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 13:19
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

One problem with three matches is the imbalance in favour of the team which has two home games.

That is something that would balance out over time but, in the context of a single season, it could be significant. Think of two bottom teams fighting for survival, playing twice at home could be all the difference.
Speak softly, but carry a big stick.
Back to Top
Pappashanga View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Location: Surrey
Status: Offline
Points: 1060
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 13:36
I don't see it as workable.Injecting a little money into the B and I or Championship teams playing in the Anglo Welsh Cup would be better.
I favour playing the Welsh , Irish and indeed Scottish teams. It adds a bit of variety to what would otherwise be a very narrow set up.
There is a very cliquey attitude in the Championship.
pappashanga
Back to Top
Morgie Man View Drop Down
British and Irish Lion
British and Irish Lion


Joined: 14 Sep 2015
Location: South Coast
Status: Online
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morgie Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 14:24
Championship teams playing in an LV cup or other Anglo Welsh Cup would be better.
when you win say nothing, when you lose say less
Back to Top
Camquin View Drop Down
World Cup Winner
World Cup Winner
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Cambridge
Status: Offline
Points: 4650
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2017 at 17:13
I did not say it was perfect -just that it solved one of the problems within the constraints we have.

I know everyone is used to a double round robin. 
Of course at the moment you play two sides four times. It used to be up to six.

And yes I know that who you get at home in round three can have an effect - but the point of the Magic weekend is so  everyone gets 13 home games and 14 away.

The Magic weekend is taken from League 6 games at a neutral venue - - say Twickenham or Leicester with all the fans mingling and hopefully making a weekend of it.

If you think  can come up with a structure for an expanded B&I  or a cup involving just Premiership and Championship sides then propose a structure. 

But the AWC only has four weeks to pool games - so I do not see how it could replace the current 6 round B&I.  
The premiership sides are not going to want to play more games.

If you are going to give it entry into the European Cup then you have to show how you fit those games in as well.

If it doesn't then any pro side will treat it with the contempt they show the AWC - and you could find yourself playing a side featuring players who normally turn out for you.

If it does those that need to qualify will put out a top team - so do not expect to win. 

Blood and Sand
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.