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Will England never learn or are they just arrogant

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Camquin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 11:28
Refs with a team blow for the stoppage, check with the ARs (andTMO) to ensure nobody has a call for foul play, and only then blows for the end of the match. If the comms are working, the check can be swift, but it is still there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 13:50
The good thing about the 6 Nations this year is that apart from Italy games  all the others were very close.
Any of 4 teams could win the championship. Ireland are out of it although they had probably the most possession of the others but didn't know what to do with it. 
With the rub of the green Scotland and Ireland could have beaten Wales but Wales are unbeaten.
All to play for. 


Edited by tulip - 18 Feb 2021 at 13:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 14:16
Originally posted by tulip tulip wrote:

The good thing about the 6 Nations this year is that apart from Italy games  all the others were very close.
Any of 4 teams could win the championship. Ireland are out of it although they had probably the most possession of the others but didn't know what to do with it. 
With the rub of the green Scotland and Ireland could have beaten Wales but Wales are unbeaten.
All to play for. 



Agreed, Italy are not worth their place - either home and away play-off with Georgia or revert to 5 Nations (playing Italy is effectively a bye)?

Edited by Raider999 - 18 Feb 2021 at 14:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 15:33
Could I suggest another alternative? Split Into 2 divisions of 4 played home and away so that everyone gets 3 home games which would be a big plus for everyone on the revenue front. 1 team promoted/relegated every year. This could actually be extended right down the European Rankings so based purely on where countries are presently ranked
Div1 England, France, Ireland, Wales
Div2 Scotland, Georgia, Italy, Spain
Div3 Romania, Portugal, Russia, Netherlands
Etc etc
OR something similar to include for example Fiji and Japan taking the places of Italy and Spain (Yes Georgia are currently ranked above Italy) which would make a stronger Div2 but more travelling all round
The traditionalists will probably string me up but just a thought!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 17:12
Great big huge resounding no from me Thatbloke
So many Christians not enough Lions
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KnightsBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 17:39
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Great big huge resounding no from me Thatbloke

Could swap Scotland with France 😅😅😅
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 19:08
It was only a thought - plenty time for thinking these days!! 😂😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2021 at 23:37
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Great big huge resounding no from me Thatbloke


I wonder why?

That like has a reasonable idea, but if you had 5 in each division that would be 2 home/2 away each year (and not upset the Scots).

1 promoted/relegated each season all the way down the leagues.

Inviting Japan and possibly others would re-invigorate a tournament that is becoming a little stale.

Or you could go the whole hog and make it a Workd League?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 09:48
I will explain my reason, IMO the gulf between the top international teams and the rest of Europe is huge. Most Spanish players are at Nat1 level, we had one playing for us for the last couple of seasons and he wasn’t first pick, I am not aware of any Georgians playing in the AP or championship. Italy regularly play and beat Georgia. Wales this season although unbeaten have won both games against a team with 14 men and were hanging on at the death so fortunate. Any of the current 6 nations having to play with the teir 2 sides could face financial meltdown as you will not fill the stadiums and it will affect you you can play in the Autumn international slot. I don’t think it’s broke if anything perhaps expansion but it would divide into 2 halves. England this season have been poor so far (running in a load of tries against Italy doesn’t count) but that IMO is due to the top guy and the set up in the AP where a overseas player is recruited before an English youngster so they don’t get enough game time to learn their trade or they are pushed in far too early. The Celtic nations use back door qualification by using the residency rule so they don’t have it correct either (England have a few as well). In saying all this I think we have a bigger problem in the game at the moment than the 6 nations in that the RFU and England rugby are draining the club game and on its current path are likely to kill the game as we know it. England and the AP are very self-centred as the pandemic has proved this would have been the perfect time to look at everything and plan the recovery for the whole game not just a few.

Sorry for the long post but I think we are facing a huge crisis and I think the clubs whose money pay for the RFU are not being represented properly and hung out to dry 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 10:49
Originally posted by Rabbie Burns Rabbie Burns wrote:

Italy regularly play and beat Georgia. 

 I don’t think it’s broke if anything perhaps expansion but it would divide into 2 halves. 

The fact that Italy regularly beat Georgia suggests that the World Rugby rankings (Geo 12th / It 14th) are flawed.

The 6N may not be broke overall, but having a team who have shown an inability to compete across 5/6 seasons isn't great...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thatbloke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 11:56
The current World Rankings were just a starting point - it was never meant to be a suggestion that the Scots would be the ones to step down with Italy. If it were ever to be approved it would probably require several years notice to be given by which time any 2 of the current six could find themselves in Div2. At the moment it is NOT a fair competition given the three and two split home and away. I quite like the idea of reverting back to five nations but none of them would accept losing the alternate year's extra home game? 8 games (four home, four away) would lead to a much extended tournament and would never be accepted by the clubs (unless, of course, the extra income generated could buy their support?)
That said I fully agree with other posters that too much money is returned to the International and Premiership game but maybe a fuller International calendar could generate enough cash to rescue rugby from Level 2 down


Edited by Thatbloke - 19 Feb 2021 at 12:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 17:01
I don't see what the issue is with the Six Nations. A team must always finish bottom. At the moment that is Italy but it hasn't always been that way and I don't remember calls for relegation or playoffs or replacements or reverting to Five Nations then.

Italy are better than Georgia on recent results.  Georgia would finish bottom and we would start to hear calls for them to be relegated etc. 

TV companies don't want a Five Nations. They want the even split of fixtures each round. 

The Unions don't want to see a reduction in games as they will lose ticket etc sales.

If there was a reduction you can guarantee a reduction in the amount of money paid for the tournament.

Clubs don't want to see an increase to accomodate South Africa or Japan or USA etc as they would lose players for longer - and this would cost the Unions more in compensation.  

And, truth be told, it is the money from the Six Nations that keeps the game afloat in those countries. 

The real issue is the unequitable distribution of that money amongst each Unions clubs. In England the over tilted balance to 13 clubs rather a fairer share to the thousands of clubs in membership.  Changing the Six Nations won't change that. 


Edited by Richard Lowther - 19 Feb 2021 at 17:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2021 at 23:24
Originally posted by Richard Lowther Richard Lowther wrote:

I don't see what the issue is with the Six Nations. A team must always finish bottom. At the moment that is Italy but it hasn't always been that way and I don't remember calls for relegation or playoffs or replacements or reverting to Five Nations then.

Italy are better than Georgia on recent results.  Georgia would finish bottom and we would start to hear calls for them to be relegated etc. 

TV companies don't want a Five Nations. They want the even split of fixtures each round. 

The Unions don't want to see a reduction in games as they will lose ticket etc sales.

If there was a reduction you can guarantee a reduction in the amount of money paid for the tournament.

Clubs don't want to see an increase to accomodate South Africa or Japan or USA etc as they would lose players for longer - and this would cost the Unions more in compensation.  

And, truth be told, it is the money from the Six Nations that keeps the game afloat in those countries. 

The real issue is the unequitable distribution of that money amongst each Unions clubs. In England the over tilted balance to 13 clubs rather a fairer share to the thousands of clubs in membership.  Changing the Six Nations won't change that. 

Has any other nation gone as long (28 games I think and counting) without winning a game? Surely something needs to be done to change this. Should more money be given to the Italian Federation to help to promote the game more or at some stage do the TV companies say enough is enough we don't want to show games where Italy are the whipping boys every week. I agree that Georgia at the moment probably aren't strong enough but with the investment that Italy have had from TV money would it make Georgia strong  enough to compete?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thames Estuary Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 12:22

England team to face Wales

England: Daly; Watson, Slade, Farrell, May; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Hill, Wilson, Curry, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, Martin, Earl, Robson, Malins.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 14:09
Now what was that Definition of Insanity quote I read........?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kingsheathlad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 18:39
Originally posted by paddym paddym wrote:

[QUOTE=Richard Lowther]I don't see what the issue is with the Six Nations. A team must always finish bottom. At the moment that is Italy but it hasn't always been that way and I don't remember calls for relegation or playoffs or replacements or reverting to Five Nations then.

Italy are better than Georgia on recent results.  Georgia would finish bottom and we would start to hear calls for them to be relegated etc. 

TV companies don't want a Five Nations. They want the even split of fixtures each round. 

The Unions don't want to see a reduction in games as they will lose ticket etc sales.

If there was a reduction you can guarantee a reduction in the amount of money paid for the tournament.

Clubs don't want to see an increase to accomodate South Africa or Japan or USA etc as they would lose players for longer - and this would cost the Unions more in compensation.  

And, truth be told, it is the money from the Six Nations that keeps the game afloat in those countries. 

The real issue is the unequitable distribution of that money amongst each Unions clubs. In England the over tilted balance to 13 clubs rather a fairer share to the thousands of clubs in membership.  Changing the Six Nations won't change that. 

Has any other nation gone as long (28 games I think and counting) without winning a game? Surely something needs to be done to change this. Should more money be given to the Italian Federation to help to promote the game more or at some stage do the TV companies say enough is enough we don't want to show games where Italy are the whipping boys every week. I agree that Georgia at the moment probably aren't strong enough but with the investment that Italy have had from TV money would it make Georgia strong  enough to compete?

Italy won games in last world Cup or are the 28 loses referred to above just in 6 Nations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steve@Mose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2021 at 21:30
Originally posted by kingsheathlad kingsheathlad wrote:

Italy won games in last world Cup or are the 28 loses referred to above just in 6 Nations. 


Quote Italy has not won a Six Nations match since their 22–19 away win against Scotland in Round 3 of the 2015 tournament, losing every game since; this equates to a losing run of 28 matches.

Italy's last major scalp was in 2016 when South Africa were beaten 20-18 in Florence.

The only times Italy have won two Six Nations matches were in 2007 (defeating Wales and Scotland) and 2013 (defeating France and Ireland).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote front5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 55 minutes ago at 17:48
I have to say Billy Vinipola adds absolutely nothing to the England team... he may as well not be there... Eddie Jones needs to draft in Simmonds or Dombtant or even play curry there and play any 2 of Wilson- Willis- Underhill - B Curry - Martin 
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