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Women's Prem

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Loo fighters View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 17:36
RFU showing its true colours again. The reshuffle of the Tyrrell's 15 premier has seen two of the pioneering clubs in the women's game Richmond & Waterloo, jettisoned for two new shiny names that haven't played a game in anger, namely Sale Sharks & Exeter Chiefs. It stinks to high heavens, it's become a franchise in all but name, based solely on money. 

Edited by Loo fighters - 07 Apr 2020 at 17:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 18:36
LF, you've hit right on the "money", two Clubs with over 50 combined years leading the development of the Women's game get shafted because the new guys? on the block have flashed the cash. SSW have committed to spending £1 Million over the next 3 years, don't think that will get them much of better squad then what 'Loo had. Quite sure on paper it looks like a great idea but when reality bites they will be shunted out of existence by SS because it will become a bit of a black hole.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote marigold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 19:15
Where are Sale and Exeter going to get a squad of 40 players each of the calibre to compete in the Tyrells? Oh yes they will simply steal players from other clubs as they currently have no players of their own. So in the SW the likes of Hartpury, Bristol and Worcester will get weaker -Worcester have been bottom each season so far so do not understand how they can stay in the league let alone lose players. Sale will steal players from Loughborough and DMP so weakening them. Yet again the RFU flying in the face of the values they so glibly display.There is not enough money going into the women's game for it to become professional at club level so why take places away from the community clubs-very sad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 20:50
Originally posted by PiffPaff PiffPaff wrote:

LF, you've hit right on the "money", two Clubs with over 50 combined years leading the development of the Women's game get shafted because the new guys? on the block have flashed the cash. SSW have committed to spending £1 Million over the next 3 years, don't think that will get them much of better squad then what 'Loo had. Quite sure on paper it looks like a great idea but when reality bites they will be shunted out of existence by SS because it will become a bit of a black hole.

'have committed' or 'had committed'? You wonder to what extent business plans drawn up in the old 'BC' days may be redrawn...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 21:47
All the above so true. Harlequins got their women's team going by taking a large portion of the Richmond team through the Trojan horse of Aylesford Bulls.
It's a cartel ruled by money and disregard for sporting values.
Also Richmond had the impudence to bounce back into the men's Championship at the expense of Leeds, thus leaving whoever engineered the previous season's ludicrous farce with egg on their collective faces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 22:04
Just look at what happened to Lichfield Ladies to see the utter disregard the RFU display towards the 'older' clubs 
'Kin disgrace - not unlike the disregard for the men's sub-Prem game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 22:09
PP is a Manchester lad n he knows the score. I thought it was Sale 1861 that was being upgraded, but no, it a brand spanking new entity. He's right on the players. There is only a certain player pool in the NW, Loo have & have had the best around. Quite a few have been taken by Rugby League. Sale will find it very difficult to entice the girls from down south, unless they're going full pro, which I don't believe they are. So as PP said it will be relatively the same team rebranded. Their is a huge difference between playing local and Prem. Loo would put 50+ points on Sale 1861 team of this season, yet Loo were regularly up against a team of english international plus others. Quin's, sarries, Wasps, Loughborough, I think 90% of England play for these 4. teams Michelle Orange might have a dream, but it's about to have its nose rubbed in the dirt. The development league has been scrapped which is the backbone of the up n coming, just madness. Waterloo ladies have been  magnanimous in their response, but I know this hurts,& as a supporter it hurts me. 

Edited by Loo fighters - 07 Apr 2020 at 22:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 15:38
Not the first time this has happened. The current Quins team was stolen from Aylesford Bulls. Ever since they came into a "partnership", Quins chipped away at Aylesford's identity and even when Aylesford won the Women's league, they did it in Quins colours and not even playing in Aylesford. They bought their way into the top women's league at the expense of a club that worked hard and earned their spot just because the original team they had weren't that good. Exactly the same thing seems to be happening here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 15:45
What I don't understand is why the Women's game is replicating the structure of the Mens game which doesn't work for the vast majority of its clubs and is a financial shambles. 

I fear that that if a Premiership club is looking to balance its books at any time in the future, for any reasons, then the Womens team will be one of the first to be cut. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 16:19
Robb, I believe that Aylesford was a halfway house from Richmond to Harlequins. Aylesford must have known this, as did the players. They wouldn't have moved to Aylesford ( miles away from Richmond, and way below them in the then league) except in the knowledge they would end up at Quins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 16:57
Richard, yes the point I was making. So if the 300K a season "investment?" in to SSW goes ahead then what do they get for their money. 30 players on 10K a season? Firstly I doubt some of the Semi-Pro's players would get that but I would guess you'll need 30 just ensure you have squad. You'll have overheads, coaching, medical, transport, kit to come out of it. Furthermore I would guess the Girls Centre of Excellence will be moving from 'Loo to Sale, that too comes with some expenses. Let say they improve on 'Loo's last place finish by one spot a season. After 3 years they will be 3rd from bottom and the wrong end of £1 Million pound investment. Lets hope KP (owners of Tyrrells) don't decide to pull their sponsorship otherwise the RFU might struggle to meet prize money payments. in short.... NUTS!

Edited by PiffPaff - 08 Apr 2020 at 17:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 17:03
Yes it's all a badly thought out farce. But what else have we come to expect? After Leeds, anything is possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 17:42
Has the growth in playing numbers been matched by a growth in attendances for the Women's game? Club rugby, not internationals?

What was the average attendance at say a Waterloo game? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PiffPaff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 18:09
LF, might be best placed to answer that but on the two occasions I went to Waterloo I would guess on average 150 and most of them were family of the players. I'm told the league average is just over 300, that doesn't butter anyone's parsnips!

This is from the start of this season, think Quins have promoted it quite well, but lets face it everyone loves a winner.
 




Edited by PiffPaff - 08 Apr 2020 at 18:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Loo fighters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 19:47
Attendance was  varied to say the least, dependant of course on the opposition. The top four international packed teams drew a three figure crowd with free entry. Quin's v Sarries is the biggest crowd of a few thousand. Great point regarding the model mirroring the men's. For me, the NW needs more than Sale Sharks across both men's and women's game. To grow the game they could have expanded the number to 12 or even 14, keeping Loo and mond plus Lichfield and Leeds West park. The England internationals could be centrally contracted and place two at each club to even up the league making it more competitive, at the moment I think quin's have 6or more current England players, closely followed by Sarries and Loughborough. So it comes as no surprise that some games were won by a landslide of 50+ points, sometimes more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Member728 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 21:20
They came for Aylesford Bulls and I did nothing as I did not support Aylesford

Then they came for Lichfield and I did nothing as I did not support Lichfield

Then they came for Richmond by then it was too late
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2020 at 22:32
Originally posted by Pappashanga Pappashanga wrote:

Robb, I believe that Aylesford was a halfway house from Richmond to Harlequins. Aylesford must have known this, as did the players. They wouldn't have moved to Aylesford ( miles away from Richmond, and way below them in the then league) except in the knowledge they would end up at Quins.

No, Aylesford were their own club. They fought their way up through the leagues and established themselves in thhe Women's Premiership. Then Quins came in with a partnership offer with matches split between The Stoop and Aylesford. I knew the instance that news was announced that this wasn't a wealthy benefactor coming in to be generous and support women's rugby. It was a hostile takeover in plain sight because Quins' original women's team weren't that good.

And I was right. That joint agreement led to the team moving to Guildford with very few games at Aylesford. They were then told to wear Harlequins colours and only have the Aylesford Bulls logo on their sleeve (and I don't know what happened with their memorial message). It was so bad that in their final season, they were Aylesford Bulls in name only and Harlequins in everything but name. It is sickening to see a club get bought and franchised like that and to see it lose its identity and take away everything from the amateur club that made it.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 09:22
All correct, but a large number of the best Richmond players left the club after the 2014/15 season for Aylesford, presumably on the basis it was going to be Quins. I cannot believe they would have joined Aylesford for any other reason. No disrespect for Aylesford, but Richmond were in the top two and it must have been money and to play for Harlequins.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pappashanga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 10:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2020 at 13:09
On crowd numbers, DMP played a double header with the men’ playing Blackheath followed by the women playing Quinn’s. TRP crowd was 1000+ for the men’s game and surprisingly it was the same for the women’s game but in reality it was a lot less probably less than a third for the women’s game but it is hard to judge numbers in the arena
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