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World Cup Qualification

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Pistacio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pistacio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: World Cup Qualification
    Posted: 15 May 2018 at 16:18
http://https://www.worldrugby.org/news/334794

Belgium, Spain and Romania gone

Russia through

Portugal and Germany to play off to play Samoa. 

Preocanin should be involved? Anybody else from the Championship of Nationals?
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Robb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 16:36
Russian hackers at it again! :)

Shame for Spain, they were probably the only team that might have put up a fight against Samoa. Nevertheless, I'd love Germany to get to the playoff because it will be great to see them get steamrollered by Samoa (Justice for 1900 I'd say!). But just goes to show the ludicrousness of the qualifying system that the IRB readjusted so that the Pacific Islands could get back in.


Edited by Robb - 15 May 2018 at 16:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JonDee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 19:09
Hopefully the board of Rugby Europe will be sanctioned as they oversaw the whole farce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 19:48
Whether you are Romania or Romsey check and double check player eligibility 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2018 at 20:05
Originally posted by JonDee JonDee wrote:

Hopefully the board of Rugby Europe will be sanctioned as they oversaw the whole farce

Even more of a farce when you discover that the IRB have no jurisdiction over Rugby Europe's RWC qualification system (ie. referee appointments, governance of player eligibility etc.).

If anything, the IRB should just formalise it in the lawbook that they are the top authority in rugby and have the power to intervene unilaterally where the regional federations have failed.
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Pistacio View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pistacio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 07:54
I'm happy to do 20 GBP to a charity of your choice on this fixture , Germany in their current state will be steam rolled by Portugal.

If the likes of Bardy at Montepllier , de Chaves at London Irish, Marques at Brive, Bettencourt at Carcassone, Tadjer at Brive (to name a few) are selected I suspect Portugal first beat Germany away and then go on to  nick a victory in Lisbon on the 30th against Samoa before taking a major shoeing in Samoa a fortnight later.

Which if I'm correct leaves Portugal  in a four way tournament with Canada, Kenya and someone else for the final spot. 
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Blub View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 08:26
Originally posted by Pistacio Pistacio wrote:

http://https://www.worldrugby.org/news/334794

Belgium, Spain and Romania gone

Russia through

Portugal and Germany to play off to play Samoa. 

Preocanin should be involved? Anybody else from the Championship of Nationals?


I suspect it is not over yet, as I am sure that Spain will appeal.  I understand that the (in)eligibility of the Spain players in question is not altogether straightforward.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tworeefs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 09:37
I am not sure that Spain will appeal.  My suspicion is that World Rugby would not make such an announcement if it hadn't been agreed, however reluctantly, by all the parties concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 09:42
Originally posted by Pistacio Pistacio wrote:

I'm happy to do 20 GBP to a charity of your choice on this fixture , Germany in their current state will be steam rolled by Portugal.

If the likes of Bardy at Montepllier , de Chaves at London Irish, Marques at Brive, Bettencourt at Carcassone, Tadjer at Brive (to name a few) are selected I suspect Portugal first beat Germany away and then go on to  nick a victory in Lisbon on the 30th against Samoa before taking a major shoeing in Samoa a fortnight later.

Which if I'm correct leaves Portugal  in a four way tournament with Canada, Kenya and someone else for the final spot. 

Probably be Portugal, Rhodesia, Canada and Hong Kong in the repechage.  Here's hoping Hong Kong do well because the IRB robbed them of the automatic Asian qualifying spot.

By the way, I wasn't serious when I said Germany would get to face Samoa, I just said I would like to see it just based on history. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote castleparknight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:16
Robb

Rhodesia ceased to exist in the 1970's - I assume you are an expat
Onward and Upwards C'mon Donny!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fat Albert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 10:44
Romania have appealed, on the grounds that they followed due process and were advised by Rugby Europe that the player concerned was eligible...

If so, an even bigger farce

Having watched video of the controversial game that resulted in very long bans for some Spanish players, all I can say is the biased/incompetent decision making exhibited by the officials against Spain wasn't as bad that seen in National 1 most weeks Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Camquin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:29
Hang on Rugby Europe, run by a Romanian, told Romania that a player was eligible, even though he palpably wasn't. 

Quote
8.2 A player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side national representative team or the next senior fifteen-a-side national representative team or the senior national representative sevens team of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side national representative team


Quote
Regulation 8 is a strict liability offence and shall be construed in accordance with the principles of strict liability in English law. It is not, therefore, necessary that fault or intent on the part of a Union be shown in order for a breach of Regulation 8 to be established. Nor is lack of fault or intent on
the part of a Union a defence to a breach of Regulation 8


Sione Faka’osilea played for Tonga in the 2013 Gold Coast 7s - erog captured by Tonga.

They might be able to appeal against the fine - but not the ponts deduction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:33
Originally posted by Fat Albert Fat Albert wrote:

Romania have appealed, on the grounds that they followed due process and were advised by Rugby Europe that the player concerned was eligible...

If so, an even bigger farce

Having watched video of the controversial game that resulted in very long bans for some Spanish players, all I can say is the biased/incompetent decision making exhibited by the officials against Spain wasn't as bad that seen in National 1 most weeks Tongue


I've just read an article on the bbc sport website, saying Romania were advised by Billy & Mako Vunipolu's father that the player concerned was eligible for Romania - not sure if Rugby Europe also told them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Count Ford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:46
I think this whole issue has just shown how ridiculous the international eligibility rules have become.

Considering players can qualify by residence in just a few years it makes no sense at all to restrict players to one country only. Surely a two year gap between representing a different country is sufficient to avoid conflicts of interest.

Lets take Cameron Redpath. Say England cap him for 30 secs then discard him never to be seen again. For the rest of his career he is ineligible for competing for Scotland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mark W-J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:58
For me the most ridiculous thing is that Faka’osilea has played seventeen test matches in as many months for Romania, and yet World Rugby didn't once question his eligibility.  If this happened in a level nine match the club would receive an immediate points deduction, but World Rugby apparently don't have any system to record international appearances (in any tournament) to determine players' eligibility.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 13:13
Originally posted by Mark W-J Mark W-J wrote:

For me the most ridiculous thing is that <span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Faka’osilea has played seventeen test matches in as many months for Romania, and yet World Rugby didn't once question his eligibility.  If this happened in a level nine match the club would receive an immediate points deduction, but World Rugby apparently don't have any system to record international appearances (in any tournament) to determine players' eligibility.</span>


Not always true - I seem to remember one N1/N2 side getting a minimal points deduction a few years ago when the ineligible player played over 20 games.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rabbie Burns Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 14:57
Couldn’t happen now with GMS unless he played under a false name
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 16:38
Originally posted by Count Ford Count Ford wrote:


Lets take Cameron Redpath. Say England cap him for 30 secs then discard him never to be seen again. For the rest of his career he is ineligible for competing for Scotland.


Appreciate that you used Cameron Redpath simply as a hypothetical example, but i do think that we'll see a lot of him in an England shirt.  Not necessarily this summer, but certainly in the future.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 16:44
Originally posted by Camquin Camquin wrote:

Hang on Rugby Europe, run by a Romanian, told Romania that a player was eligible, even though he palpably wasn't. 

Quote
8.2 A player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side national representative team or the next senior fifteen-a-side national representative team or the senior national representative sevens team of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side national representative team


Quote
Regulation 8 is a strict liability offence and shall be construed in accordance with the principles of strict liability in English law. It is not, therefore, necessary that fault or intent on the part of a Union be shown in order for a breach of Regulation 8 to be established. Nor is lack of fault or intent on
the part of a Union a defence to a breach of Regulation 8


Sione Faka’osilea played for Tonga in the 2013 Gold Coast 7s - erog captured by Tonga.

They might be able to appeal against the fine - but not the ponts deduction.
\

If I have understood that correctly, doesn't that make it incredibly difficult to be sure of the correct eligibility of a player.  They would surely have to rely on the memory and/or honesty of said player, if they cannot rely on the accuracy of the other national boards.

particularly given the fact that not every U20, or Sevens team, or even every game they play, would necessarily preclude playing fo ranother country later in life.

What a complete mess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raider999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 17:58
I am sure the Russians knew everything about it all.
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