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Yorkshire Cup 2016-17

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Maroon View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 19:02
I believe that the Yorkshire Cup which involved Harrogate and Sheffield Tigers playing at Morley RFC on April 26th has been cancelled.


I would presume that National 2 North survival is more important for both clubs at this stage of the season.


Can someone from either club confirm the reason?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 19:05
Originally posted by Maroon Maroon wrote:


I believe that the Yorkshire Cup which involved Harrogate and Sheffield Tigers playing at Morley RFC on April 26th has been cancelled.


I would presume that National 2 North survival is more important for both clubs at this stage of the season.


Can someone from either club confirm the reason?

Is it cancelled or postponed.

Edited by tulip - 18 Apr 2017 at 19:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maroon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 19:24
I think it is cancelled for 2016-17.

With both clubs playing in 16-team leagues, their season runs until April 29.

The County Cup begins in May and the two teams are providing 7 players to the Yorkshire squad.


I think that August was discussed, but rejected by one or possibly both of the clubs.


Can someone such as Tiger Dome or Gatecrasher add any more details?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richard Lowther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 20:17
It's appalling if true.  

Teams entering the competition know when the final will be played and that this may be within their league window.  It just makes a mockery of the competition. 

I just hope it is not true. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 23:18
Harrogate definitely want to play the final and have no objections in playing next week, even though this would be before a crucial league game.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 06:26
All true.

The game was asked to be moved to the week after due to the possition both teams are in which made sense.

Harrogate and tigers agreed a good idea but due to the county championship Yorkshire declined.

Yorkshire suggested August as a curtain raiser but harrogate declined as they have a pre season game against Chinnor.

Due to player welfare tigers declined to play it on the 26th.

Yorkshire again declined to move it to the week after so the cup is cancelled.

Seems the Yorkshire championship is more important than the county cup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 07:00
Wharfedale honoured their 1/4 final tie v Hull, still under the threat if relegation, and put out their 2nd team, the Foresters, with a few 3rs teamers. It was a cracking game.
Otley pulled out if their semi with Tigers so could this mean the end of T'Owd Tin Pot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 10:10
Both sides knew the final would be on the 26th April, both sides knew Yorkshire wanted the final played before the county championship games and both sides are in the relegation mix in N2N.

Harrogate wanted to play on the 26th - Tigers did not, therefore Tigers conceded the final and the Yorkshire Cup is awarded to Harrogate. Not the way any team would want to win a trophy.

 No point having the final in August.

If Tigers were never going to play on the 26th, they might have said earlier and the final could have been between Hull and Harrogate who played this Saturday after Otely couldn't be bothered to turn up either.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 10:14
If this leads to the end of the T'owd Tin Pot it would be a massive shame from a Harrogate perspective. As a club it has been a great experience that the club has taken very seriously and thoroughly enjoyed winning for the previous two years.

With a club not playing a final, it is the players that are let down as much as the club. When you're a player you don't get many chances to win silverware, a cup or a league, so when you do have the chance you have to grasp the opportunity with both hands!

Why couldn't tigers put out a number of their twos players to help boost numbers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 10:35
Please don't turn this into a tiger bashing as you clearly are not in the know. 

We have communicated why to Yorkshire who choose to ignore player welfare and deprive the players of a cup final, which for everyone would have been a great spectacle with "gate and tigers at 1-1 for the season. 

BOTH clubs wanted to play the game the week after on 2nd / 3rd May but got declined for the County championship. 

Tigers really wanted to play and feel terrible Yorkshire have denied them the chance to play in a cup final for 7 days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 10:37
Tiger Dome - Harrogate have no problem playing on the 26th, Tigers do - that is fact. Due to this Harrogate have been awarded the cup.

100% in the know - Tigers have withdrawn and Harrogate haven't
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stoo The Zoom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 10:57
Date offered was 19th August which in effect is next season, and the teams would be completely changed, not fair on the players who have played in the various knock out stages. (Harrogate's view and they did not agree to this date.)
The decision has yet to be ratified by the Competitions Chairman but was unanimously voted for.


Edited by Stoo The Zoom - 19 Apr 2017 at 11:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gungystruck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 11:38
As sad as it is, and this has been the case for many years now, the Yorkshire Cup is no longer relevant, or at least not in its current guise, where whoever wins it may have a nice shiny trophy and the name etched alongside previous illustrious winners. The Yorkshire Cup was, before league rugby, the pinnacle, the season finale to establish the best team in the county, with the opportunity for giant killings along the way. Some of my best rugby memories are watching Wharfedale play the might of Headingley, Roundhay, Wakefield,Morley et al.

If the YC is to survive it needs to change and not be a 'first team' competition. Maybe if teams down to say level 5 couldn't field players who have played more than say 8 first team games this would be a welcome distraction for senior reserve sides and provide clubs from levels below with a genuine chance of playing more senior clubs on a level playing field?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 12:48
The problem isn't the cup - its the league system, if anyone has tried to vary a league match it's like the end of the world. We are lead to believe a more varied rugby schedule is needed and i don't disagree, but you try talk to the little Adolfs up there in their ivory towers and they haven't got a clue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:19
Originally posted by openthegate openthegate wrote:

Tiger Dome - Harrogate have no problem playing on the 26th, Tigers do - that is fact. Due to this Harrogate have been awarded the cup.

100% in the know - Tigers have withdrawn and Harrogate haven't

Clearly you are NOT in the know. 

Can you give me the full reason, in detail, why we felt we needed to withdraw ? 

Harrogate and Tigers requested that the game be played the following week ...... BOTH teams requested this .... Yorkshire said no. 

We have had a good relationship with "Gate" and am not prepared to get into an us and them on here. 

So away you go Openthegate ................... The real reason why and full conversations between Harrogate and Yorkshire please ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:23
Originally posted by Gungystruck Gungystruck wrote:

As sad as it is, and this has been the case for many years now, the Yorkshire Cup is no longer relevant, or at least not in its current guise, where whoever wins it may have a nice shiny trophy and the name etched alongside previous illustrious winners. The Yorkshire Cup was, before league rugby, the pinnacle, the season finale to establish the best team in the county, with the opportunity for giant killings along the way. Some of my best rugby memories are watching Wharfedale play the might of Headingley, Roundhay, Wakefield,Morley et al.

If the YC is to survive it needs to change and not be a 'first team' competition. Maybe if teams down to say level 5 couldn't field players who have played more than say 8 first team games this would be a welcome distraction for senior reserve sides and provide clubs from levels below with a genuine chance of playing more senior clubs on a level playing field?

Hertfordshire do exactly that. They realised the importance to clubs in the National leagues ....... the league standing. Anyone below level 5 plays a second team ....... and the final is at alianz park ! What a day out for those lads being able to say they played there. 

Guess what, the Herts presidents cup has become great again !!!!

Maybe they are a forward thinking county !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:24
The Yorkshire Cup as a competition has been a joke for quite some time. I believe that the blame for this shared between the importance of League Fixtures and those that run the Yorks Cup.
 
Since the introduction of League Rugby, the reputation and prestige awarded to the Yorks Cup has slowly deteriorated, to the point were we now have Clubs who have no interest in it at all.
The only Clubs that show any intent are those with nothing to play for in the League during April i.e. those who cannot be promoted or relegated.
Unfortunately, a Club's standing is measured by it's league status and any Yorks Club fighting for promotion or facing a relegation battle in April, have bigger fish to fry.
 
The people involved in running the Yorks Cup i.e. those involved in making some ridiculous decisions, must also be held responsible for the scant regard that Clubs now have for the Yorks Cup Competition.
An example of the Yorks RFU working 'positively' with the Clubs involved was when, only a few seasons ago, the Yorkshire RFU Competition Secretary insisted that Hull Ionians honour their Yorks Cup fixture away at Wheatley Hills despite the fact that on the same Saturday afternoon, they were expected to full fill a Nat 2 league match at home to Hull.  
How mad is that!
 
If the Yorkshire RFU don't work with the Yorkshire Clubs involved, there will certainly come a time when we have no Yorkshire Cup Competition at a senior level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:35
Originally posted by Tiger Dome 2 Tiger Dome 2 wrote:

Originally posted by Gungystruck Gungystruck wrote:

As sad as it is, and this has been the case for many years now, the Yorkshire Cup is no longer relevant, or at least not in its current guise, where whoever wins it may have a nice shiny trophy and the name etched alongside previous illustrious winners. The Yorkshire Cup was, before league rugby, the pinnacle, the season finale to establish the best team in the county, with the opportunity for giant killings along the way. Some of my best rugby memories are watching Wharfedale play the might of Headingley, Roundhay, Wakefield,Morley et al.

If the YC is to survive it needs to change and not be a 'first team' competition. Maybe if teams down to say level 5 couldn't field players who have played more than say 8 first team games this would be a welcome distraction for senior reserve sides and provide clubs from levels below with a genuine chance of playing more senior clubs on a level playing field?

Hertfordshire do exactly that. They realised the importance to clubs in the National leagues ....... the league standing. Anyone below level 5 plays a second team ....... and the final is at alianz park ! What a day out for those lads being able to say they played there. 

Guess what, the Herts presidents cup has become great again !!!!

Maybe they are a forward thinking county !
 
If we are going to have some forward thinking we could stop calling it "T'owd Tin Pot".
I think this would go some way to improving Yorkshire's reputation as a rugby county and stop everyone thinking that the Yorkshire RFU & Officials are to be found in endless re-runs of the 'Last of the Summer Wine'. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:54
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

Originally posted by Tiger Dome 2 Tiger Dome 2 wrote:

Originally posted by Gungystruck Gungystruck wrote:

As sad as it is, and this has been the case for many years now, the Yorkshire Cup is no longer relevant, or at least not in its current guise, where whoever wins it may have a nice shiny trophy and the name etched alongside previous illustrious winners. The Yorkshire Cup was, before league rugby, the pinnacle, the season finale to establish the best team in the county, with the opportunity for giant killings along the way. Some of my best rugby memories are watching Wharfedale play the might of Headingley, Roundhay, Wakefield,Morley et al.

If the YC is to survive it needs to change and not be a 'first team' competition. Maybe if teams down to say level 5 couldn't field players who have played more than say 8 first team games this would be a welcome distraction for senior reserve sides and provide clubs from levels below with a genuine chance of playing more senior clubs on a level playing field?

Hertfordshire do exactly that. They realised the importance to clubs in the National leagues ....... the league standing. Anyone below level 5 plays a second team ....... and the final is at alianz park ! What a day out for those lads being able to say they played there. 

Guess what, the Herts presidents cup has become great again !!!!

Maybe they are a forward thinking county !
 
If we are going to have some forward thinking we could stop calling it "T'owd Tin Pot".
I think this would go some way to improving Yorkshire's reputation as a rugby county and stop everyone thinking that the Yorkshire RFU & Officials are to be found in endless re-runs of the 'Last of the Summer Wine'. 

WOW 

Sid ...... we agree on something Handshake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:56
Tiger Dome

Question - Did Tigers decide not to play on Wednesday and concentrate on their league games?

Answer - Yes

Question - Did Harrogate decide not to play on Wednesday and concentrate on their league games?

Answer - No 
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