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Yorkshire Cup 2016-17

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openthegate View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 13:58
You withdrew due to player welfare and you wanted to concentrate on the remaining two league games instead.

Yorkshire wouldn't move the date as they had already stated months ago once everyone involved realised that it was the Wednesday before the end of the season.

If this isn't the real reason - why aren't Tigers playing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 14:15
Originally posted by openthegate openthegate wrote:

Tiger Dome

Question - Did Tigers decide not to play on Wednesday and concentrate on their league games?

Answer - Yes

Question - Did Harrogate decide not to play on Wednesday and concentrate on their league games?

Answer - No 

Openthegate

1st question - No
We were still discussing with Yorkshire and Harrogate up until Sunday night at 5pm. 

2nd Question - No
They were still trying to get it moved to the following week with us, which both clubs wanted. 

The problem with common sense is ........ its not that common !

If Yorkshire would have moved it 7 days there would have been a cup final in all its glory for both clubs and players alike. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 14:30

Dear All,

 As you may  know, we were due to play Sheffield Tigers in the Yorkshire Cup Final at Morley on the evening of Wednesday the 26th April.

 Sheffield Tigers have refused to play on that date as they want to prioritise their crucial two final League games on the 22nd & 29th April (we have crucial games on those dates too). The only alternative date offered by Yorkshire was Saturday the 19th August. Both Clubs would have had to agree to accept this suggestion. We didn’t because the date would effectively have been next season and, inevitably, some of our team members would not have been the ones who got us to the Final.

 Accordingly, we’ve won the Yorkshire Cup for a third successive year, albeit by default. This is the Yorkshire RFU Competitions Committee’s decision (I’m a member of this Committee but, understandably, wasn’t allowed to vote on this matter). The decision has still to be formally ratified by Peter Morgan, the Competitions Chairman who is currently on holiday in Portugal. However, the vote was unanimous so it’s virtually certain that it will stand.

Regards

Bill  Barrack

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 14:30
Originally posted by openthegate openthegate wrote:

You withdrew due to player welfare and you wanted to concentrate on the remaining two league games instead.

Yorkshire wouldn't move the date as they had already stated months ago once everyone involved realised that it was the Wednesday before the end of the season.

If this isn't the real reason - why aren't Tigers playing?

We withdrew due to - 

9 front row players avalible this Saturday, 5 in the first team 3 props 2 Hookers and 3 in the second 15 with a colt on the bench. Two first team props are carrying niggles after a long season and need managing. 

3 front row players go away on Sunday so you will not see a second team game on the 29th, and we are not playing a colt who is not ready yet against a national 2 prop. So we are left with 5 (which makes selection easy) 2 of which have niggles. 

If we got an injury at Harrogate on the Wednesday we would not have a front row to go to Luctonians with. (not sure what the RFU would think about that in a league game being forced to play the cup on the Wednesday)

The week after, The other 3 are back from work / holidays so avalible again. 

What do you do at this stage of the season and after 28 games ??????? The lads with niggles would play Saturday / Wednesday and after a 4 hour trip to Luctonians Saturday again. Then one of the props is due to train with Yorkshire !!!!!!! 4 times !!!!! at front row !!!!!

Everyone at Tigers is gutted Yorkshire did not see sense, and could not see player welfare in the front row is paramount. The whole club feels terrible to concede but saw no other choice and also saw the chance taken away from us, for our players to play a cup final ........ for 7 days !!!! 

We even spoke of playing an unofficial game the following week, we agreed we would go to there place and do this, so they would get the gate and bar !!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote openthegate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 14:32
Both clubs would prefer it moved, but as we know it 100% wasn't going to be moved, Harrogate accepted the 26th April as the date of the final and Tigers didn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 14:34
Originally posted by openthegate openthegate wrote:

Dear All,

 As you may  know, we were due to play Sheffield Tigers in the Yorkshire Cup Final at Morley on the evening of Wednesday the 26th April.

 Sheffield Tigers have refused to play on that date as they want to prioritise their crucial two final League games on the 22nd & 29th April (we have crucial games on those dates too). The only alternative date offered by Yorkshire was Saturday the 19th August. Both Clubs would have had to agree to accept this suggestion. We didn’t because the date would effectively have been next season and, inevitably, some of our team members would not have been the ones who got us to the Final.

 Accordingly, we’ve won the Yorkshire Cup for a third successive year, albeit by default. This is the Yorkshire RFU Competitions Committee’s decision (I’m a member of this Committee but, understandably, wasn’t allowed to vote on this matter). The decision has still to be formally ratified by Peter Morgan, the Competitions Chairman who is currently on holiday in Portugal. However, the vote was unanimous so it’s virtually certain that it will stand.

Regards

Bill  Barrack


I have the E Mails from Bill agreeing to play the week after, however will not publish them as Bill was a gentleman all the way through the process, which finalised at 5;30pm Sunday night after Yorkshirewould not move. 

Bill has then simply put a short statement out to your members. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 14:35
Originally posted by openthegate openthegate wrote:

Both clubs would prefer it moved, but as we know it 100% wasn't going to be moved, Harrogate accepted the 26th April as the date of the final and Tigers didn't.

This, due to player safety we can agree on !

Both clubs did try to get it moved, so credit t gate for this as they understood. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willy Mclintosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 22:59
This is all real shame for the Yorkshire Cup.
 
The Yorkshire RFU really need to look at how they can once again make the Yorkshire Cup a great competition, something that all clubs want to be included. Other counties can do it so why is it so hard in Yorkshire ?
 
The framework and dates were set out long in advance so this situation simply should not have occured, not really directing blame at the teams who would have played in the final and clearly National League status has to rank highly (along with player welfare), teams are in a season long league and as it culminates an extra mid week game isnt a welcome distraction, particularly if they are facing promotion or in this case relegation. 
 
I would have hoped it could have been played the following week, even if the Yorkshire RFU strongly requested no players in the county squad played, niether side makes up the core of the squad.
 
Its all done and decided now for this year, just hope lessons can be learnt and effort put in to make things better next year. I suspect nothing will change but hope can only hope.
 
Its also a shame for Morley to miss out staging the final and the bar revenue it will lose.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Albert Fishwick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 07:14
Why not play it at tbe start of tbe season? It would give teams a chance to try out fringe players or different combinations.
That's easy for you to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 07:32
Originally posted by Willy Mclintosh Willy Mclintosh wrote:


This is all real shame for the Yorkshire Cup.
 
The Yorkshire RFU really need to look at how they can once again make the Yorkshire Cup a great competition, something that all clubs want to be included. Other counties can do it so why is it so hard in Yorkshire ?
 
The framework and dates were set out long in advance so this situation simply should not have occured, not really directing blame at the teams who would have played in the final and clearly National League status has to rank highly (along with player welfare), teams are in a season long league and as it culminates an extra mid week game isnt a welcome distraction, particularly if they are facing promotion or in this case relegation. 
 
I would have hoped it could have been played the following week, even if the Yorkshire RFU strongly requested no players in the county squad played, niether side makes up the core of the squad.
 
Its all done and decided now for this year, just hope lessons can be learnt and effort put in to make things better next year. I suspect nothing will change but hope can only hope.
 
Its also a shame for Morley to miss out staging the final and the bar revenue it will lose.
 


Willy I agree fully.

Other counties has evolved, changed, moved with the times, understood the modern day game making it desirable and competitive whilst taking the importance of national league rugby into consideration.

We at tigers offered for our county players to not be involved, agreed any other date the following weeks, agreed to play it wherever and to cover the travel costs. We looked and offered any other dates than the week of the 26th.

They strongly declined on all offered and stated they were yorkshire RFU and that is the date it would be played or not at all ............. This all poses the big question WHY ?

It has denied the county, the teams, the players, the supporters, Morley and made the Yorkshire cup and the county look incapable and short sighted ......... For 7 days .... Unbelievable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote backrowb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 07:50
I could never see the game being played with 1st teams on the original date. I don't lay any blame at Tigers door. Best of luck over the next 2 weeks. Hope you stay up.

Edited by backrowb - 20 Apr 2017 at 07:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tulip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 10:04
Something very similar happened to Sandal 7 or 8 years ago when we had a promotion playoff going up from North East 1
My memory isn't great but I think Yorkshire banned us from the next years Yorkshire Cup and Sandal banned themselves
from the Cup thereafter and have never played in it again.
I think it would be a great curtain raiser for the next season in August but obviously pre season warm up games do need organising well in advance and players who got you there may not be involved.
Maybe it could be a 2nd team Cup and let those lads get a bit of Kudos for all the hard hours they put in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 11:34
Did anything move on this? Or is it just cancelled for good?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Willy Mclintosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 11:50
Originally posted by islander islander wrote:

Did anything move on this? Or is it just cancelled for good?


Harrogate were awarded the win. No game played. Poor end to the competition.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maroon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 11:59
The Yorkshire Cup for 2016-17 was awarded to Harrogate as Sheffield Tigers withdrew from the final.


No doubt Tigers  will console themselves with the fact that they completed a remarkable run of league victories to stay in N2N, whilst Harrogate were relegated on the last day into N3N.



Gives Harrogate a hat-trick of YC wins.


Gives YRFU a headache as how they can fit in a competition which despite its illustrious tradition is increasingly been seen as an irrelevance and inconvenience by many clubs in a league dominated world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2017 at 19:51
Originally posted by Maroon Maroon wrote:


The Yorkshire Cup for 2016-17 was awarded to Harrogate as Sheffield Tigers withdrew from the final.


No doubt Tigers  will console themselves with the fact that they completed a remarkable run of league victories to stay in N2N, whilst Harrogate were relegated on the last day into N3N.



Gives Harrogate a hat-trick of YC wins.


Gives YRFU a headache as how they can fit in a competition which despite its illustrious tradition is increasingly been seen as an irrelevance and inconvenience by many clubs in a league dominated world.


Not really a head ache ...... If they had moved it to this week, Wednesday night would have been the Yorkshire cup final. I would think the crowd would have been huge after the end to Nat 2 !!!

And with gate down and tigers up can you imagine the spectical it would have been ?!?!?!

Yorkshires short sightedness has cost the players, members and county a cup final, it's that simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 12:42
I thought I would resurrect this thread and highlight this years Yorks Cup debacle so far.
 
Last Saturday we saw Sheffield Tigers give Donny Phoenix a 1st round home walk over. Why? Presumably because Tigers had an important N2 league fixture that day.
This Saturday, Driffield were due to play Huddersfield but Driff already have a 1st round away walk over. Why? Presumably because Huddersfield have an important N2 league fixture on Saturday.
 
Hull I's are fulfilling their 1st round match at Malton & Norton by fielding an 'AXV'. This is because the match clashes with Hull I's important N1 fixture at Bishop Stortford.
 
This week is a free week for those Clubs not involved in the National Leagues. The 2nd round matches are scheduled for 18/11/2017 which is a free week for all.
Looks like the Yorks Cup Competition Sec. has really listened to the points raised last year, at least for the Clubs not involved in the National Leagues (no offence meant to those Clubs).
 
Do Yorks RFU want the Yorks Cup to be taken seriously by all of the Cubs involved? The timing of the 1st round fixtures would not suggest so.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tiger Dome 2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 13:17
Originally posted by Sid James Sid James wrote:

I thought I would resurrect this thread and highlight this years Yorks Cup debacle so far.
 
Last Saturday we saw Sheffield Tigers give Donny Phoenix a 1st round home walk over. Why? Presumably because Tigers had an important N2 league fixture that day.
This Saturday, Driffield were due to play Huddersfield but Driff already have a 1st round away walk over. Why? Presumably because Huddersfield have an important N2 league fixture on Saturday.
 
Hull I's are fulfilling their 1st round match at Malton & Norton by fielding an 'AXV'. This is because the match clashes with Hull I's important N1 fixture at Bishop Stortford.
 
This week is a free week for those Clubs not involved in the National Leagues. The 2nd round matches are scheduled for 18/11/2017 which is a free week for all.
Looks like the Yorks Cup Competition Sec. has really listened to the points raised last year, at least for the Clubs not involved in the National Leagues (no offence meant to those Clubs).
 
Do Yorks RFU want the Yorks Cup to be taken seriously by all of the Cubs involved? The timing of the 1st round fixtures would not suggest so.  

Hey Sid how are you, all good I hope and thanks for bringing this up .... a good debate. 

After being told ALL cup games were to be scheduled for free weekends, it surprised us to find out that the cup game was arranged for last week when we had Tyndale at home ?!?!?

Our second 15 squad are made up of young keen lads and experienced "older" players so to speak and are coming along nicely winning 3 out of 3 and sitting top of there league. 

The main reasons are - 
1. We were given only 9 days notice about the first round to be played at Doncaster Phoenix. 
2. Our first 15 had Tyndale at home.
3. Donny Phoenix first 15 had a free week.
4. Donny Phoenix Second 15 had a fixture against Wharfedale away.
5. Some of our lads in the second 15 had booked to use the free week and go away resulting in a depleted team. 

Where is the benefit in sending a depleted young team to play against a team fighting for promotion in the old National 3 midlands ? 

This is in no way Doncasters fault and we apologise that we did not give them a game, but with 9 days notice and when the odds are sooooooo out weighed against us with there 15 free and ours busy @ Dore More what would you do? 

Its a shame and I have no idea who is organising but .............




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Surreyben Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 17:16
The Cornwall Cup, first round scheduled for this weekend is already falling foul of the regular withdrawals due to player unavailability, despite the first round draw and dates for the games to be played made back in the summer, so it's not just a Yorkshire malaise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 23:21
Looks like the County Cup Competition Secretary's around the country should get together and decide which has the least empathy towards maintaining the credibility of their County Cup Competition.

In Yorkshire, Hull I's appear to be the only National League Club who have fulfilled their scheduled 1st round Yorks Cup fixture. I watched the match at Malton and sadly, there was a distinct lack of appreciation of our efforts from the home crowd nearest me. All they could say was "why haven't you brought a touch judge". Thanks Malton. We don't have local touch judges (assistant refs) in Nat 1.
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